This over-saturation of Nuka Cola

RangerBoo said:
The Van Buren documents did a little something like this with the Mormons. Maybe back then or around New Vegas time we could have seen something interesting like this. Nowadays with today's current culture I don't think we will ever see something like this from a major studio. They will either be too scared at pissing people off or it will be something incredibly on the nose like Bioshock Infinite where the moral is "religion bad, m'kay" instead of something much more complicated and thought provoking.
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Well that's why it'd be post-war theological groups. The Unity, The Enclave, NCR and the Legion weren't real groups but they extrapolated ideas and features from real life groups. For instance, you could extrapolate the theological areas of the Israel-Palestine conflict or The Great Schism, or the Crusades into a context with entirely invented post-war religions. It'd echo real life in the same way that Bitter Springs for example echoed Wounded Knee or Mai Lai, and much like stuff like that in other Fallout contexts, it'd move beyond that and take on character of its own. Which I feel would avoid real life controversy unless it was written hamhandedly and the connections coming off as shallow imitation rather than inspiration.
 
Swimming_Pants said:
You have the option to raid your own towns, which is stupid and I hated.
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Well the option is there. Like how settlement building is an option after that Sanctuary quest (thank goodness for that). I'd think of it like Simcity, where you can build up the town and destroy it. That's a fun idea, though my guess is it wouldn't be fun really, probably due to bad AI fucking it up.
 
I would say that, compared with how they handled other stuff, i liked how they handled pre-war Nuka-Cola, depicting the company and its production as something that went wild, priotizing the wide distribution of the production over consumers health. It might be over the top at times, but i liked that they made it an unsubtle critique of major companies.

On the other hand, having quests about nuka-cola collectors in the wasteland kind of ruined it. It felt like Fallout 3 had a different set of writers for prewar stuff and for present stuff. I enjoyed more reading the holodisks than listening to dialogs.
 
Nuka World DLC was incredibly stupid. Either side with the raiders invading the Commonwealth (on your OWN settlements if you’re a Minuteman) or just shooting up the town dead and explore. It’s back to Fallout 3 levels of player choice. Lame as shit, and I actually thought Far Harbor was pretty neat so I was expecting so much more with it. Serves me right

Off topic, but I gotta admit though, the jingle was pretty catchy
 
Morgan_ said:
Gonna be a tall order to replace super mutants/master army, imo. The story surrounding them and morality questions raised was maybe the best writing and world building in post apoc settings. Better than Mad Max if we're being honest here. This doesn't even get into Enclave and Legion.

We've had prewar remnant organizations with the Enclave, House and Institute trying some form of shit usually involving varying degrees of genocide and rampant ai. The NCR trying to recreate the US. Various cults ranging from smal tribes and religions up to the Legion and we have seen varying forms of society being rebuilt.

I know that stories and myth are derivative of past stories as the bible was with Gilgamesh, but what stories and characters are there really left to tell at this point?

It reminds me of how British tv would criticize US shows for not stopping once the story was told.

Fallout 1 and NV are the only true Fallouts in the end.
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Ehhh.

There are entire vaults out there full of social experiments. Just pop one open to be a expy of some Historical empire. Hell even a HRE like one with a Imperial Army. Bam.

Villains and factions are easy to cook up in the span of an afternoon. I've posited a Demon-Devil GeneEngineered one for a 'Religious' Vault that tried to make a bogeyman and seceded. Or actual proper remnants of the US Army or Military turning to warlordism - have the Navy and Army fighting it out over some base or city somewhere and making demands of the locals.

Or even a actual Socialist or Leftist or Environmentalist group? Especially on the PNW. A reaction to the reaction, something like that. Cascadia might try to tip into this but who knows.
 
Eshanas said:
Demon-Devil GeneEngineered 'Religious' Vault
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no
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Bethesda clings desperately to old fallout iconography because they either can't or wont make new things for fallout. Contrast with new Vegas which created new icons to the series such as black ranger armour, the legion, securitrons, or hell the seirra madre.


Meanwhile Bethesda is sitting out here with t60 power armor, a bear but it's got mange, [animal but big], and a one for one ripoff of the garthim from dark crystal.

What's even funnier is this is consistent with the nuke cola issue because new Vegas doesnt really have a lot of that it in it.
 
NV had less of those things but they were still there. The Legion was a new addition, but not their idea and it seems they fucked it up kindof how Bethesda probably would with their comically evil representation (which they admit). I'm not saying you can't, or that you shouldn't try and replace the old characters, just that it will be difficult and the result might be worse than what we have now.

Even Obsidian opted for keeping the old enemies with additions and bring already existing ideas to the table. Better than Bethesda's efforts but still not a total overhaul with old assets and ideas missing.

I think I may actually disagree that Mutants and ghouls, etc are not what makes Fallout just as elves, dragons and orcs are not what makes D&D. Sure you can still have it without those things but it also quite different now too. Risky too change these things and probably not worth the reward if you're a big developer with a publisher with the sword of Damocles over your head.

90% of new ideas brought to the table would really just be reskins of existing ideas and archetypes imo.
 
Morgan_ said:
NV had less of those things but they were still there. The Legion was a new addition, but not their idea and it seems they fucked it up kindof how Bethesda probably would with their comically evil representation (which they admit)
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I don't understand how people have gotten this notion that the Legion is "cartoonishly evil."
 
I mean... they said it themselves though. :scratch:
I also did not say that slavery only happened in cartoons? I would have to find the quote, but essentially they regretted overdoing the evil aspect of the Legion with how they were represented.
Just play the game fam and you'll see what they mean? Every legionary is an extremist to a Charles Manson/suicide bomber degree with women only being fit as livestock cattle.

I think that might be a little overdone even without the devs saying as much themselves, no?
 
Morgan_ said:
I mean... they said it themselves though. :scratch:
I also did not say that slavery only happened in cartoons? I would have to find the quote, but essentially they regretted overdoing the evil aspect of the Legion with how they were represented.
Just play the game fam and you'll see what they mean? Every legionary is an extremist to a Charles Manson/suicide bomber degree with women only being fit as livestock cattle.

I think that might be a little overdone even without the devs saying as much themselves, no?
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I think they (I'm assuming it was Josh Sawyer) probably said this because the cutlural climate has shifted and something like that might not be considered politically correct anymore. But in its context, the Legion is well-written and the evil things it does are totally believable in context. The only problem is they didn't have enough content, but while that content should've showed the upsides to life in the Legion it should not have softened at all on the bad things it does.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
I think they (I'm assuming it was Josh Sawyer) probably said this because the cutlural climate has shifted and something like that might not be considered politically correct anymore. But in its context, the Legion is well-written and the evil things it does are totally believable in context. The only problem is they didn't have enough content, but while that content should've showed the upsides to life in the Legion it should not have softened at all on the bad things it does.
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Even if this is true it still stands that they used old ideas like mutants/ghouls and it worked fine and changing that would be hard as hell and probably not worth the risk to do piecemeal let alone all at once.
 
Morgan_ said:
Even if this is true it still stands that they used old ideas like mutants/ghouls and it worked fine and changing that would be hard as hell and probably not worth the risk to do piecemeal let alone all at once.
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Key difference with the mutants was that there was legitimate reason for their presence and they had an interesting evolution of their storyline from their introduction.

Versus crowbaring justification for the purpose of mindless orcs and iconography.

The point is not flip the table every time for the sake of it.
 
And I think the result of new things instead of sticking with the familiar would be worse based on the other new things Bethesda has introduced with Mirelurks being the best they did. The shoehorned Mutants will make for a better game and is less risky than making a slue of new things for the east. People would just complain that the new introductions were not "Fallout" anyways. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Going with the less risky option makes sense.

Besides, lots of people on here have said they want mutants and ghouls to be replaced in future Fallouts and to be set in new locations away from the West coast.
 
Morgan_ said:
I mean... they said it themselves though. :scratch:
I also did not say that slavery only happened in cartoons? I would have to find the quote, but essentially they regretted overdoing the evil aspect of the Legion with how they were represented.
Just play the game fam and you'll see what they mean? Every legionary is an extremist to a Charles Manson/suicide bomber degree with women only being fit as livestock cattle.

I think that might be a little overdone even without the devs saying as much themselves, no?
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I actually agree with you for the most part, I was just making a joke. The misogyny of the legion is a little too extreme and it makes it harder to empathize with their views, particularly if you are a female courier/player. But I wouldn’t describe their brand of misogyny as cartoonish, as it’s actually quite serious and treated seriously within the game.

You could say they are cartoonish because of their football pads and Roman cosplay, but their extremism follows a believable logic that is often found in the real world.
 
No dammit, this was supposed to be a fight to the death!
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I just like to have the contrarian opinion on Fallout :bow:
 
The Legion didn't need to be morally grey. NV already has three grey choices. Sawyer makes a great point of them being representative of real life regimes that are just morally repulsive - what makes them not cartoonish however is understanding the context that created such a regime.

I think the Legion does a serviceable job at that and some aspects of it generally needed to be tweaked, but I think the Legion being truly morally grey would have made NV weaker. They just needed more depthful context for their rise and success.
 
Did you guys imagine NV release today?

Caesars Legion, Powder Ganger, The Chairmen, The Kings and Marked Men. They are male only :D
 
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