Thoughts on FO3 vaults?

[Say Apple!]

The vaults in Fallout 3 are quite different from the ones in the originals.
Thoughts?
If I may say so, I think I prefer the vaults in the new games compared to the old. It seems like a place where people can actually live since there's classrooms, plenty of living space, and places to get food, compared to the old ones where there were only about 6 or 8 rooms, not enough for the populations of the actual vaults.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

You do realize that they only showed us a couple of levels of the Vaults in Fallout 1 and 2 right?

There was no need to add levels that include the classrooms, exercise rooms, reactor level, and so on as there was no need for those in the game.
Actually there lived at least a thousand people in a Vault, Vault 13 at least.

The same reason why places like the Hub, Junk Town, Necropolis, and the Junkyard may look small.
There is actually a lot more to these places, loads of houses, ruins and so on, but they were not added to the games because it would be just pointless filler between the areas that were worth visiting.

I think for example that the doors on the new Vaults are awful.
From what someone explained in another topic, the doors of the old Vaults were so designed that they could not be pushed inwards when a pressure wave of a detonation hit them.

Also, the Vaults in FO3 and FNV in general still don't make sense as they would still only be big enough for a handful of people.
Places like the medical wing would be way to small for a place where hundreds of people live.

These would almost have to have an entire floor of their own; surgery room, recovery room, patient rooms, laboratory, and so on.


The 'problem' in Fallout 1 and 2 are the same in Fallout 3 and FNV.

 

[Say Apple!]

Oh, I never looked at it that way before...

 

[Say Apple!]

Going back to Fallout 1, I could also see how Fallout 3/NVs vaults are less effective as most of their vault doors are on the outside, and Vault 101 is down a small hallcavething while Vault 13 is a large more complex cave.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Expanding Dutch Ghost post, info from bible

They're there. It's game logic. You don't see them for the same reason NCR is only three maps, only has 1 councilor/senator, and only about 40-50 people in its city limits. That's why the Chop Shop in Reno exists, why the bum outside of NCR offers to watch a car for you before you show up in one, and a reason that NCR built a garage in Shady Sands. So to explain "game logic" in this instance, there's nothing precious about building a car of your own if you can steal one – or if somebody else in town has one. Or in the words of one designer (me), "there's no good reason why a PC would want to undertake a fucking huge Fed Ex quest to rebuild one if they can jack one from the locals." The last part is especially true considering town-wide mass murder is possible in both Fallout 1 and 2. And before you get the image of tanks and jeeps flying around everywhere with heavy machine guns mounted on the back, most of that junk is old tractors and crap like taxis, old buses, snowplows, and even old construction equipment. It's possible that mysterious old steam-truck mentioned in the bowels of the F1 data archive is still lumbering around somewhere. The caravan houses of the Hub, in particular, around the time in Fallout 2, have been looking to further its trade influence, and new vehicles (and types of transport, such as trains, boats, or barges) have been eagerly sought after for carrying large amounts of trade goods vast distances. Good ol' human greed will move mountains. Or at least rebuild things that can. Once they learn of the Enclave's presence in the North, they are likely to have huge bounties promised for vertibird plans - or better, a working vertibird.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I think for example that the doors on the new Vaults are awful.
From what someone explained in another topic, the doors of the old Vaults were so designed that they could not be pushed inwards when a pressure wave of a detonation hit them.

On the other hand wouldn't the FO1-2 doors be unable to be opened if the caves that connect the vaults to the outside world collapsed? At least with the FO3 design they could open them and start digging...

 

[Crni Vuk]

if you consider that we are talking here about a structure thats inside a mountain surrounded by pretty hard rocks then I have some doubts that you could simply dig your way out. You might need weeks if not months with the usual tools, in other words without explosives.

Its not like it isn't a serious problem in the real world either. There are many shelters and bunkers under structures like hospitals, town halls and the like. But no one ever really was very concerned about it what to do after the bombs dropped and someone survived inside those bunkers that the buildings now on top of it actually collapsed over bunker probably blocking the entrance.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

if you consider that we are talking here about a structure thats inside a mountain surrounded by pretty hard rocks then I have some doubts that you could simply dig your way out. You might need weeks if not months with the usual tools, in other words without explosives.

That's not really a problem inside a vault, now is it? It's not like they are in danger of running out of food, air or water.

 

[Say Apple!]

It's not like they are in danger of running out of food, air or water.

Well it could be. What if the tunnel for Vault 13 had collapsed? Then everyone who lived inside would have died of dehydration.

 

[GenericFalloutUsername]

Oh the horrors of Vault 108... "Hahaha, Gary!"

I thought they designed the Vaults pretty well considering what they had to work with. Especially the Vault where there's that hallucinogenic gas in the air that makes you see ghosts and stuff.

I'm new here by the way.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

It's not like they are in danger of running out of food, air or water.

Well it could be. What if the tunnel for Vault 13 had collapsed? Then everyone who lived inside would have died of dehydration.

What I mean is that, save for unexpected failures (like the Water Chip malfunctioning), if the Vaulte dwellers found out that the caves collapsed when the vaults were supposed to open (200 years for V13 for example) they certainly would have resources to keep the place running for a few extra years (if not more, at times Vaults seem described as self sustaining), during which they could dig their way out.

Also, I think that vaults take their water from underground sources.

 

[lordhaw]

Another point here is wouldn't a hidden cave complex in front of the main vault doors make it kind of difficult to put 1000 people into a vault in an emergency. The Vault 8 outer blast door and tunnel arrangement seems to make more logical sense for a shelter designed to save people from nuclear armageddon as it would make it far easier to put said 1000 people into the vault in the first place.

Of course, the Vaults weren't intended to SAVE anyone

 

[Arden]

...Its not like it isn't a serious problem in the real world either. There are many shelters and bunkers under structures like hospitals, town halls and the like. But no one ever really was very concerned about it what to do after the bombs dropped and someone survived inside those bunkers that the buildings now on top of it actually collapsed over bunker probably blocking the entrance.

Almost all Bunkers and Shelters have escape tunnels. The distance of the exit is calculated depending on the structure above the bunker and how and where it would collapse. In addition a bunkers ceiling extends out over the door with a breaking line where it connects to the ceiling of the normal structure. If it collapses the entrance "should" remain clear. In bigger Bunkers escape routes are usually placed along ventilation shafts since you have to dig a hole for them anyway and those too should not be blocked by rubble. Also temporary bunkers rely on the hope that there is outside help after an attack to clear the entrance. A multi-generation installation for surviving armaggeddon can't rely on outside help.

In Fo1 and 2 only parts of the vaults were shown, leaving a lot to the imagination and you could explain missing stuff by pointing out that stuff was in another section not shown. In FO3 and NV this does not work. Another example why detailed graphics and environments can have the opposite of their desired effects and actually undermine suspension of belief.

 

[Wumbology]

In 3 and NV, there are a lot of blocked doors, hallways, etc... you don't see all of a Vault in these games either.

 

[Say Apple!]

In 3 and NV, there are a lot of blocked doors, hallways, etc... you don't see all of a Vault in these games either.

Everyone knows who you are in Vault 101 though, there are only a few vault dwellers you see who you never met which suggests its a tight knit community. You also don't see any rebels other than rebels you know, and you don't meet officers you don't know. Plus, most places are visited with the exception of the room with all the stuff to keep it running.