Thread idea: explain something Fallout 3 didn't (fanon)

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Wumbology, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Wumbology

    Wumbology Actually a sentient CRT

    298
    Mar 5, 2013
    ...Such as "Where do people get their water from", "Why does Enclave PA suck,", "How did Vault-Tec get FEV", "How do v87 Super Mutants have such a massive army when they're functionally mentally impaired", "Chinese remnants: what the hell?" or anything else you can think of! Feel free to answer an answered question with a different idea.

    This fun exercise promotes creative writing ability and also provides a bleak look into just how little Bethesda paid attention to a series dedicated to convincing, thought-out worlds full of good dialogue and sensible world design!

    I'll start. The Enclave PA in Fallout 3 is, in fact, a pre-war riot armor design commissioned by officials in the U.S government, designed to provide a dedicated PA to quell riots so that the T-51b and T45d could be dedicated to the Ghobi Desert Campaign. It's made of cheaply mass-produced polymers of a chemical design that's great at stopping blunt force and trauma, but consequently is no good against actual bullets, so that's why you can kill an Enclave soldier with a 10mm. Weaker servos and hydraulics mean less strength bonus, too.
    Most APAs were lost on the trip from Navarro and elsewhere to Raven Rock- they exist in the Capital Wasteland, we just don't see them in-game. Maybe one guy or two has one running around somewhere. The Enclave had a decent solution in producing this weaker armor and distributing it instead.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
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  2. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    Great idea for the thread, Wumb.

    Your explanation of Enclave armor is okay too, but there is a discrepancy between FO3 info and FNV when it comes to the way armor is handled - the missing DT in FO3. That being said, since there is an armor in FNV which is not only the riot armor, it is also way better in handling incoming damage (again, because of DT). And just looking at it, it seems to be a lot cheaper, more practical, easier-to-mass-produce piece of equipment than the clunky Enclave PA/riot armor. And obviously, more effective, which makes the whole issue of making Enclave armor somewhat reduntant. Unless somebody somewhere lost the schematics for FNV riot armor or knowledge of materials used for manufacturing, but if that's the case, then having Enclave armor as a next best shot is somewhat illogical.

    The point of all this is then - do we count FNV's handling of specs and lore to explain and fill in the missing details to the FO3, or do we just look at FO3's content and that of older games?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
  3. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    But the power armor also protect from radiations (see the early days of the BOS/And glow expedition, that was fine before their PA leaked) and air spread virus (see the end of Fo2), which represent an extremely crucial factor in the Enclave clothing, as they don't want to be tainted by radiation and become "mutant" (basically anyone that was tainted by radiation).
    If that riot armor provide lesser protection agains't radiation, it doesn't matter if it protect more agains't normal damages. They don't want radiation, period.
     
  4. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    Hmph, true. I forgot about that crucial factor.

    So...if I may...

    Enclave armor is a cheap knock-off of a pre-War riot armor which was used in high risk circumstances - i.e. dirty bomb terrorist attacks. Something to be used on homefront against ever-increasing rioting, since most of the original PAs were shipped to Canada/Ghobi Desert for immediate service.
    However, Enclave, although having the schematics for that armor don't have the exact manufacturing process making it weaker when compared to the original pre-War armor. It is also slightly modified to give it a menacing look because psychological war and Enclave's trademark black armor. The armor itself is intended to drive off the ignorant wastelander due to its looks (resulting in the shot in the back), rather than enter direct confrontation.

    So yeah, just a little modification of what Wumb said.


    I'm tired, my mind is numb.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
  5. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    32
    Feb 22, 2014
    "How did Vault-Tec get FEV?" is quite easy to explain I think. Word about FEV got out shortly before the war, upsetting the populace (this was a fact before Fallout 3). Vault-Tec had ties to the secret government (who had ties to the military). They demanded some of the FEV to experiment with (Vault-Tec was in the position to blackmail) and the gov granted them some more unstable strain (unbeknownst to Vault-Tec), while requesting every bit of data they'd gather.

    Why did Vault-Tec want FEV? Same reason Google makes contact lenses now.
     
  6. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    Word about FEV wasn't leaked from what i remember, since the pre-BOS killed every scientist involved as soon as they found out.
    It would be very unlikely that the civil population would be aware of it before the military supposed to watch the project (without knowing anything about it)
    And then, after they killed these scientist, they declared secession only a very few number of days before the bombs fell.
     
  7. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    32
    Feb 22, 2014
    After they found out that they abused military prisoners as test subjects.

    FEV research was leaked to the public in February 2077.

    Either the leak was doubted by the pre-BoS until they saw with their own eyes the horrors, or (and I think this is the stronger option, given Maxson's diary) the leak was about FEV research in principle, not about the means and details of testing. The details were what the interrogations further brought to light, ending with the executions.
     
  8. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Carbon Dated and Proud

    Nov 26, 2007
    Why did DC (a metropolis) resort to using bottle caps for money? In Fallout, they were in the middle of nowhere, but the water merchants could pay with water, and bottle caps could not easily be made in the desert without specialized tools. DC has actual banks, actual novelty coin manufactures [like subway tokens; video arcade tokens; doubloons for convention events, and the like]. The banks are full of actual US coinage. The currency exchanges would have forign coins; including actual gold Krugerrands. DC also [presumably has a glass recyclery and probably worthless troves of millions of bottle caps; not to mention bottling companies with the machinery to stamp out a [practically] infinite supply of new caps on demand.]

    _____________


    How did Jet [bottled brahmin fart] get into pre-war storage in DC [and labeled as "Jet"]; when Myron invented the stuff in California over a 160 years after the war.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
  9. Wumbology

    Wumbology Actually a sentient CRT

    298
    Mar 5, 2013
    Great idea, actually. I think the idea that a private corporation had bargaining power over the federal government- and the military-industrial complex- fits in well into the dystopic, hypercapitalist tone of pre- war Fallout. The unstable strain is a nice touch.

    The Bakersville riot armor slipped my mind, actually. One thing: It's not a Power Armor suit. I think the benefits a strength-enhancing suit might offer towards crowd control are obvious, so I think it's fair to say it AND the Riot Armor were used.
    Also, regarding your question about New Vegas materials: obviously consider them just like the rest of Fallout lore. So no reason to explain the origins of the new Plasma Rifle, for example. DT and DR and specs, though, is a grey zone. I say use it as you will. Or incorporate stat differences- different models of the same weapon or armor, et cetera.

    Gizmojunk: You're supposed to answer the questions. That's the whole point of the thread. This is not another complaint thread.
     
  10. 5545Trey

    5545Trey Underground Deviant

    648
    Jun 25, 2014
    I think the biggest question about Fallout 3 is why there is still human life in the Capital Wasteland after two centuries of the lack of rebuilding and progress.
     
  11. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    My headcanon is that they just left their own vault and that they are too proud to admit it.
     
  12. Kalasanty11

    Kalasanty11 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Sep 18, 2013
    Dunno, Fallout 2 also nuked a fridge here or there.
    Wasn't BoS PA equally shitty in F3? I think it's just gameplay/story segregation. Bethesda not willing to make them all that challenging, which leads to situations when hellfire troops are just mildly annoying, but half-naked tribals with axes kick your PA ass.
     
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  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Pretty much that, all PAs in F3 share the same issue which has to do with the simplified gameplay that works on level scaling and such, the mechanics of the game are heavily build around power creep. To offer a greater challange to the player they can only increase the health, damage and protection of enemies. This means that enemies with PAs become simply completely redunant at some point. There is sadly no real "explanation" that you can come up with here. I mean the game doesn't even make much of a difference if you hit the enemy with a 10mm pistol, a rocket luncher or even the fatman nuclear catapult. The only difference really is the damage those weapons do. It would have been nice if the game madea difference between explosions for example and something that could eventually pierce armor, like special high quality bullets/projectiles. Where thep layer actually had to attack the weak points of enemies in PA.
     
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Regarding FEV, it is pretty much like Naossano said, there was no way for any civilian outside the West Tek scientists and the researchers at Mariposa (and of course the US government) to know about it.
    It was too recently developed, plus like hell they would give a sample to Vault-Tec, Vault-Tec is not even into biological weapons development, they developed self contained shelters, portable reactors, and computers.

    I find this a little bit of a pointless thread to be honest, the flaws in Fallout 3 were made because the design team barely took the time to learn anything of the lore other than what they cut and pasted from other Fallout titles.
    Why should we fans make up for Bethesda's writers' incompetence?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  15. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    32
    Feb 22, 2014
    "How did Vault-Tec get FEV?" is quite easy to explain I think. Word about FEV got out shortly before the war, upsetting the populace (this was a fact before Fallout 3). Vault-Tec had ties to the secret government (who had ties to the military). They demanded some of the FEV to experiment with (Vault-Tec was in the position to blackmail) and the gov granted them some more unstable strain (unbeknownst to Vault-Tec), while requesting every bit of data they'd gather.

    Why did Vault-Tec want FEV? Same reason Google makes contact lenses now.

    Originally Posted by naossano
    Word about FEV wasn't leaked from what i remember, since the pre-BOS killed every scientist involved as soon as they found out.
    After they found out that they abused military prisoners as test subjects.

    FEV research was leaked to the public in February 2077.

    Either the leak was doubted by the pre-BoS until they saw with their own eyes the horrors, or (and I think this is the stronger option, given Maxson's diary) the leak was about FEV research in principle, not about the means and details of testing. The details were what the interrogations further brought to light, ending with the executions.

    Source: Fallout Bible 0, Fallout Timeline:

    [TABLE="class: va-table va-table-top"]
    [TR]
    [TD]2077 [/TD]
    [TD] February[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]FEV Research is leaked to the world through an unknown source. Protests in many major cities and governments around the world, as well as accusations that the US was responsible for the New Plague. FEV is seen as the threat it is, and serves only to fuel tensions. [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [TABLE="class: va-table va-table-top"]
    [TR]
    [TD]2077
    [/TD]
    [TD] October [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: left"] Captain Roger Maxson and his men discover that the scientists at Mariposa have been using "military volunteers" (military prisoners who didn't have their brains scooped for use in Brain Bots) as test subjects in their experiments. Morale in the base breaks down, and Maxson executes Anderson, the chief scientist. Not long after this (and in light of the breakdown of the mental breakdown of Colonel Spindel stationed at the base), Maxson's men turn to him for leadership. He shrugs and says "we should quit."
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    We can't, we shouldn't, we don't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  16. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    You use a bible, semi-canon content, (also an old one, that might have been contradicted by subsequent bibles), to contradict a game, a fully canon content, and THE game, the one which gave birth to the series.

    So if that plot-point from the bible is contradicted by the game itself, you shouldn't take it into account.
     
  17. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    32
    Feb 22, 2014
    It wasn't contradicted by subsequent Bibles in that regard.

    How is that plot-point contradicted by the game?
     
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    As Naossao just mentioned, Fallout 1 made it clear that FEV has only recently been developed and outside the people who should know about it (government, military command, and the researchers themselves) anything else was speculation at best.

    And why should Vault-Tec want to experiment with FEV? Again, that was not the type of business they were into, and Mariposa base was specifically re-purposed for FEV research.


    Edit; even if the Enclave had set up that Vault in the Capital Wasteland. What for? Why use some civilians for FEV research when they have a fully equipped laboratory manned by what was left of the scientific elite in the US.
    Certainly not safety precautions, the Enclave oil rig was guarded and protected by soldiers in power armor, automated turrets, and robots.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  19. General Garbage

    General Garbage First time out of the vault

    32
    Feb 22, 2014
    -Fallout did make it clear that FEV was secretly researched. It didn't make clear that there was no leak 9 months before the war. Where are the proofs or implications Chris Avellone seems to have missed?

    Luckily the concept doesn't even rely on such a leak. Vault-Tec just needed to know about FEV somehow. They had ties to the pre-Enclave.

    -Because of grandeur. Maybe they originally wanted to take the monopole from the government, for noble reasons. They knew about Project Safehouse, so they had something on the government.

    -They had a control station nearby (Raven Rock) and my suggestion wasn't that they set the Vault "experiment" up (only wanted the data), but Vault-Tec (with "permission" from the secret gov). Vault-Tec experimented on civilians and they totally fucked up obviously. It stands to reason that Vault-Tec didn't get any personnel, only the unstable (unbeknownst to them) FEV strain. They estimated that they'd have enough time after the bombs fell.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  20. Wumbology

    Wumbology Actually a sentient CRT

    298
    Mar 5, 2013
    I think the biggest question is why don't you read the thread. Anyways...

    I'll answer your question for you. Progress isn't a linear path upward. Any number of things can restrict or change the path of development.

    Such as:
    -Increased slaver activity/slave demand starting with Ashur's rise in the Pitt
    -Regular Super Mutant raids
    -Apparent prevalence of violent raider gangs/tribes
    -Lots of hunters might indicate a semi-nomadic existence is more efficient or better suited to the environment of the Capitol Wasteland.
    -Apparent lack of control vaults and subsequent lack of GECKs, various equipment, et cetera

    Furthermore you're denying how developed the Capitol Wasteland is. Megaton is judging by concept art much bigger than as portrayed in the game- just like New Vegas' settlements would rationally be bigger than portrayed in-game, why aren't Fallout 3's settlements?

    Don't get me wrong, some of Fallout 3's writing is unjustifiable. Little Lampshade is a good example. But people judge Fallout 3 too harshly on this website- it's not the demonic trinity of bad writing/bad story/bad world design some people would have you think.

    Because it's interesting for people who are into worldbuilding and writing. If thinking through these kinds of problems and design issues in a creative way isn't your thing... then this isn't the thread for you I guess?
     
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