Tim Cain doesn't comment on Fallout 3
- Thread starter Brother None
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It's kind of like the old black and white Westerns where the good guys have white hats and the bad guys have black hats, so you know exactly who's who. It may be shallow but many of the old Black Isle folks look like nice decent guys you'd want to sit down and have a conversation with. Tim Cain, for example, looks and sounds like a genuinely nice, considered dude, whereas folks like Pete Hines, Todd Howard and Emil Pagiarulo look just....creepy. And then there's the lying.
Autoduel76
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Tim may, or may not, hate Fallout 3 and what Bethesda is doing with the Fallout license. Obviously that quote is not betraying his feelings either way.
And I certainly wouldn't expect him to say anything negative about it when its released. If he really does like it, he'll probably say so, so a "no comment" type response after release, and after he's played it is a pretty sure sign that he hates it.
With that said, even though he's not designing, so not neccessarily guiding the direction that NCsoft is going, he did choose that company to work for. Which means that he's now making RPGs that are online, action-RPGs with close up 3rd person perspectives. He's also working for a man in Richard Garriott who, according to the article I found linked here at NMA really like Bethesda and feels the Edler Scrolls games are going a good job of carrying the type of RPG he was doing with the Ultima series forward.
It should also be pointed out that times change and industries change and, to some extent, game developers stick together because it can be a thankless job at times. No, this isn't a "Fallout is outdated" statement, I'm simply talking about the fact that the gaming audience generally feels entitled to things, and often puts them at an advesarial type relationship with the devs. And this for a profession that nobody gets into that doesn't love games. Nobody gets into gaming "for the money."
Because, gaming jobs pay very poorly. If you are a programmer, you can make more money, work less hours and have an easier job in another industry. If you are an artist, you can work less hours, make more money and have an easier job in another industry. If you are a producer, in the marketing department, or in QA, you can do the same type of work in another industry, with more money, better job security and far more managable hours.
Developers tend to give other developers the benefit of the doubt, so you might find that after all is said and done Tim Cain's views are quite different than that of NMA. Who knows.
And I certainly wouldn't expect him to say anything negative about it when its released. If he really does like it, he'll probably say so, so a "no comment" type response after release, and after he's played it is a pretty sure sign that he hates it.
With that said, even though he's not designing, so not neccessarily guiding the direction that NCsoft is going, he did choose that company to work for. Which means that he's now making RPGs that are online, action-RPGs with close up 3rd person perspectives. He's also working for a man in Richard Garriott who, according to the article I found linked here at NMA really like Bethesda and feels the Edler Scrolls games are going a good job of carrying the type of RPG he was doing with the Ultima series forward.
It should also be pointed out that times change and industries change and, to some extent, game developers stick together because it can be a thankless job at times. No, this isn't a "Fallout is outdated" statement, I'm simply talking about the fact that the gaming audience generally feels entitled to things, and often puts them at an advesarial type relationship with the devs. And this for a profession that nobody gets into that doesn't love games. Nobody gets into gaming "for the money."
Because, gaming jobs pay very poorly. If you are a programmer, you can make more money, work less hours and have an easier job in another industry. If you are an artist, you can work less hours, make more money and have an easier job in another industry. If you are a producer, in the marketing department, or in QA, you can do the same type of work in another industry, with more money, better job security and far more managable hours.
Developers tend to give other developers the benefit of the doubt, so you might find that after all is said and done Tim Cain's views are quite different than that of NMA. Who knows.
Very nice comment from him 
I mean i read sometime ago from one of Troikas ex-employees what problems they had (working nearly all the time aroun 60hrs a week if not more) and that Tim and so on all saw that they also made some mistakes.
So i somewhat love this line: "I will still make games, but I will let other people market, demo and otherwise shout their goodness into the airwaves"
Especially when i think about how Beth is shouting about their goodness (no i don't think Cain meant Beth with it. But i find this somewhat amusing).
Also very nice, that he uses neutral words in both ways, he neither says he's negativ no does he even give a hint about he's positiv.
Sure you could try to read something into it, but i think we all (i think) know Mr.Caine to less to really do such a thing
I mean i read sometime ago from one of Troikas ex-employees what problems they had (working nearly all the time aroun 60hrs a week if not more) and that Tim and so on all saw that they also made some mistakes.
So i somewhat love this line: "I will still make games, but I will let other people market, demo and otherwise shout their goodness into the airwaves"
Especially when i think about how Beth is shouting about their goodness (no i don't think Cain meant Beth with it. But i find this somewhat amusing).
Also very nice, that he uses neutral words in both ways, he neither says he's negativ no does he even give a hint about he's positiv.
Sure you could try to read something into it, but i think we all (i think) know Mr.Caine to less to really do such a thing
Emil Pagiarulo actually looks like a fun guy to have some beers with. Pete is PR and he looks the part. I don't like any PR people, but hey, it's a job. Todd sounds a bit introverted when he talks, to be honest.
You got a little Point Autduel, but you're also missing that there's a difference between being once own boss and being an employee. Also Mr. Caine needs to earn some money and so on...
So his decision working for NCSoft might come from other facts, then him loving 3rd person Action-RPG's....
So his decision working for NCSoft might come from other facts, then him loving 3rd person Action-RPG's....
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
ExactlyCrowfoot said:
! I have the same impression. Actually, I can't even imagine disliking someone who looks and talks like Tim Cain .If you go to adventuregamers.ocm, you get treated to an interview with Benoit Sokal & al. (the developers of adventure games like Syberia and Paradise).
In the second part of the interview (up now), they talk about how the (adventure) gamer(s) want something from the company making adventure games or rpg games, for that matter.
I can't remember the exact citation, but is goes into how a developer sometimes tries to things a little bit different than other times.
I do really think that when people bought Paradise, they thought, it was another Kate walker (syberia) game, and as such, got disappointed that it weren't.
Benoit Sokal & al. founded White Birds gaming studio to be sure to be able to make the games (and movies perhaps??) they would like to make. However, it is, of course, difficult to make games and PR them at the same time.
I do think that the reason Tim Cain did get into the game industry was to make games, not sell them. When you have your own business, you'll need to to do both.
And I bet Tim would like to be able to keep his job at NCsoft, though??
In the second part of the interview (up now), they talk about how the (adventure) gamer(s) want something from the company making adventure games or rpg games, for that matter.
I can't remember the exact citation, but is goes into how a developer sometimes tries to things a little bit different than other times.
I do really think that when people bought Paradise, they thought, it was another Kate walker (syberia) game, and as such, got disappointed that it weren't.
Benoit Sokal & al. founded White Birds gaming studio to be sure to be able to make the games (and movies perhaps??) they would like to make. However, it is, of course, difficult to make games and PR them at the same time.
I do think that the reason Tim Cain did get into the game industry was to make games, not sell them. When you have your own business, you'll need to to do both.
And I bet Tim would like to be able to keep his job at NCsoft, though??
Seraphim Pwns U
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I don't blame Tim Cain for taking a neutral stance. And in all honesty, that's the only 'right' way for him to go if the game winds up being different than what he would've done (and in his opinion, isn't good when it comes out). If he praises it now, it might give the impression that FO wasn't 'his baby' (as it was for Leonard)... if he mentions any disappointment, either now or later, it would probably come across as bitterness and resentment. His only real 'safe route' would be to praise it later (assuming it honestly deserves praise), or continue with either neutrality or silence.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Yep, who knows, who knows...
Seraphim Pwns U said:
Naw. I think people would forgive him for bashing Fallout3 as soon as Bethesda started hyping Elder Scrolls V:
"The Radiant AI in Fallout 3 was flawed, but we've fixed it to coincide with dialogue trees."
"V.A.T.S. was a totally lame system, so we've gone back to a completely real-time system."
"There's soil erosion!"
I don't think this statement was "a neutral opinion" (sratatata=pl). This guy simply can't and don't have to do things like that. He will buy it (yes!), play it, and THEN judge. The game is not "the spiritual sucessor"? OK. Agreed already. But it will have some elements important to any Fallout fan. And that's important to me. Doesn't matter it's Bethesda's product. Play it, than judge - that' what I'm gonna do. Thank you.
NukaColaClassic said:
So... You're saying that if we see elements of the game that we have concerns about, it's better to keep our mouths shut, and wait until nothing can be done about them?
A number of people have said that Bethesda developers come onto these forums to both look at reactions and to gleam ideas. If so, I think your argument is terribly, terribly flawed - for the very reason that Bethesda itself is interested in our reaction to reported on elements of the game.
Nothing good ever came from sitting back and ignoring something that looks like it could be "wrong." On the other hand, discussing some of the problems we see with what has been revealed about F3 might, if Beth developers really are browsing these forums, provide an opportunity for change, and help them to make a better game.
I'll withold final judgement on the game until after I've played it, but, if I read a preview and see something that seems off, I will talk about it.
NukaColaClassic said:
Just because Tim doesn't want to make any judgements doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow suit, if we see something that we don't like we'll call Bethesda out on it.
I think we can make the judgement that Fallout 3 will be very different from Fallout.
I'd shut up if Tim were to say "This is exactly where I wanted to take Fallout. Exactly!"
Somehow, I doubt he will.
Somehow, I doubt he will.
Imperial Guard
First time out of the vault
It's reasonable not to comment.
What should they say, "F3 is going to suck donkey nuts Beth go die LEAD THE REVOLUTION!"?
Or "Hey guys, play nice, Beth is working hard to do a good job I'm sure it will be for the best we should support them in everything they do. Go Fallout! Go Bethesda!"
I am a little wild headed myself but I understand that the 1st is not wont to be said out of professionalism and maturity, and the 2nd is a niceguy travesty that would burn to say should the dev's true feeling be .. otherwise
What should they say, "F3 is going to suck donkey nuts Beth go die LEAD THE REVOLUTION!"?
Or "Hey guys, play nice, Beth is working hard to do a good job I'm sure it will be for the best we should support them in everything they do. Go Fallout! Go Bethesda!"
I am a little wild headed myself but I understand that the 1st is not wont to be said out of professionalism and maturity, and the 2nd is a niceguy travesty that would burn to say should the dev's true feeling be .. otherwise
Hur hur hur. I wonder if Tim's reserve suffices to instill some temperance in the more mindless and vocal criticizers (not "critics"!) of Fallout 3
First, there was Tim. Tim healed the people. Therefor they where happy. Then Tim disappeared. All of mans sins where now stacking up, while they awaited Tims return. Some say that he escaped the darkness. Some that he might come back again.
We are eagerly waiting.
We are eagerly waiting.