Ukraine election fraud

Jebus said:
This is quite ludicrous, really. Why the hell would anyone want to grow closer to the Russian Federation over the European cogglomerate anyway?

Because of the cool hats?
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Most likely because you fear the country more likely to exert political and economic pressure on you. I can understand Ukraine wanting to maintain good ties with Russia (given its turbulent history), I just again, disagree that it should be a lackey of the Kremlin. Besides, historically I would assume most Ukrainians would feel more commonality and ancestry with a Slavic neighbor than a more distant (yes, have to say it) western Europe.
 
Panslavism is a pre-1914 term, my friend.

They had to bend over for the Kremlin for almost a century now, and Russia always had a steel grip on it. Now that they have the opportunity to join the West, they're not going to mess it up.

Slavic neighbours indeed. The Czech Republic and Poland are both Slavic countries and members of the EU.

Another thing, Did you know 40% of today's Ukraine was part of Poland before WW2? These two countries have been always tied together and bickered over small stuff like an old marriage. Or Belgium and the Dutch.
 
Wooz said:
Panslavism is a pre-1914 term, my friend.

They had to bend over for the Kremlin for almost a century now, and Russia always had a steel grip on it. Now that they have the opportunity to join the West, they're not going to mess it up.

Slavic neighbours indeed. The Czech Republic and Poland are both Slavic countries and members of the EU.

Another thing, Did you know 40% of today's Ukraine was part of Poland before WW2? These two countries have been always tied together and bickered over small stuff like an old marriage. Or Belgium and the Dutch.
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Oh, I wasnt debating the fact that they should go over to the West. Jebus asked why anyone would be interested in wanting to be closer to Russia, and it seemed like a plausible explanation. Much of the people in the eastern half again probably understand Russia more than say, Germany or France. It was probably a hasty one, but it seemed to fit.

Ukraine and Poland, they share in that whole "being Russia's bitch" ancestry. That would bring ANYONE together, I think. I completely concur they should avoid Russia. Hell, Im half-Hungarian, half of my family moving to the US during the '56 uprising. We dont like Russia all that much :? .
 
Hate to say it, but Ukraine was Poland's bitch for centuries. Which eventually led to Chmielnicki's uprising of the Cossacks, one of the factors that brought down the power that once was this country.

In any case, losing Ukraine would be a slap to Putin's cheek. It's a place all too important to Russia, as Alaska is to the US, if not more. Special trading deals, lower factory prices, taxfree exports.... Oh yeah. And it's great when your lackey's wife is the CEO of the only cellphone company in the place.

Which charges EUR $ 2 for each minute.
 
That and the fact that Ukraine was once known as "Little Russia". Tsk.

2 Euros per minute? WHAT? Bunch of rip-offs.


Now the police have joined the protesters, and the army has declared to remain neutral, so the chances of a violent revolution have deminished a lot. But Yushchenko seems to be driving for a revolution anyway, now that he's formed a replacement Government, and has called on people to create a people's defense guard.
 
Sander, there are two Russian regiments in Eastern Ukraine. Brainwashed miners are supposed to be sent to Kiev and beat the shit out of protesters.

Which would fight back, of course.

Which would be the excuse the government wants to tame the rebellion with tanks.

Until the government officially declares that the elections were rigged, there's still a huge risk of a bloody revolution.
 
The Ukrainian Rada has ruled the vote invalid! Thank God is all I can say, the Ukraine needs a civil war like the USA needs more fat people. Also, apparently for a new set of elections to happen the Parliament will have to pass some new laws. Things are still delicate, but the chances are now greatly reduced of more outright blood in the streets.
 
THANK GOD! Hopefully this means their wont be violence...and even if it does at least they made the right decision. Now we can all be glad WW3 was averted for the...what fourth time?

Oh and congrats to the Ukranian people for not putting up with political bullshit! It makes me happy to see them so enthused.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
Actually there has been violence in another city, and this vote doesn`t mean a thing, it`s the Supreme Court decision that is really important, and that`s coming only on monday, so we have another day for the government forces to try something desperate.
 
Actually there has been violence in Kiev too, its going mostly unreported because its isolated and word getting out will only lead to more of it.
Also, while mostly symbolic, like the vote of no confidance in the election committy, the fact that Parliament has come out and said it was invalid is a good indication of the way things are going. Even Moscow is now saying a revote would be best.
 
I hope you guys know that maybe close to 20 - 40% of the protestors aren't protesting for a free election, but the fact that they dispise Russia, and a bunch of nationalists. The fact that 40% of the population is Russian speaking, the fact that Ukraine has not done anything for the world, and that Russia was always the country to move to, or the country that always created something and what all this shows is that they are jealous of Russia, basically what the French are doing to the US right now.
 
Banko said:
I hope you guys know that maybe close to 20 - 40% of the protestors aren't protesting for a free election, but the fact that they dispise Russia, and a bunch of nationalists. The fact that 40% of the population is Russian speaking, the fact that Ukraine has not done anything for the world, and that Russia was always the country to move to, or the country that always created something and what all this shows is that they are jealous of Russia, basically what the French are doing to the US right now.
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They are tired of keeping their mouths shut while the president, the prime-minister that is a former convicted criminal that wants to be president, the seven oligarchs that control the industry and distribution in Ukraine, the state owned tv lackeys and Putin do whatever they want in impunity, more like it. Russia will keep the previledge position regarding trade if the oposition wins, so it`s not like they will loose much, while Ukrainians win a future of their own and the hope of becoming Europe as something else than just geography, and an american ally to balance the imperialistic temptations from the large neighbour from the east. That´s worth fighting for.
 
They said on the news that there's a risk of nuclear terrorist attack against Russia, following recent unrests. I knew there was trouble in the Ukraine, but Russia? I don't get it, what's going on really? This news thing is prolly just hyping as usual.
 
Lord Inquisitor Baboonius said:
They said on the news that there's a risk of nuclear terrorist attack against Russia, following recent unrests. I knew there was trouble in the Ukraine, but Russia
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There is trouble in Russia and neighbor region for a long time. As well, there were some terrorists attacks lately but nuclear strike???
If this news was on tv it surely won't happen.
 
Banko said:
I hope you guys know that maybe close to 20 - 40% of the protestors aren't protesting for a free election, but the fact that they dispise Russia, and {are} a bunch of nationalists.
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Do you have a source on that?
As with any protest, not all of the people there are, strictly speaking, real protestors. Some will be there for other (political) reasons, some because they want to see what's going on, some because they want to start a ruckus (may day riots anyone? There's no way all those protestors are anti-capitalists) and some are there to sell hot dogs to the others.

The fact that you give a figure for this, with no cited source, seems somewhat suspicious.
 
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