US slams 'criminals' behind WikiLeaks

goffy59 said:
I'm just gonna say that I salute wikileaks for being honorable human beings. In a world full of lies, little truth is always welcomed. Its illegal what they are doing to Assange. He didn't leak the information it was the whistle blower. If it wasn't for great people like this man, we would be even more brainwashed then we already are.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." -Ron Paul
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All humans are completly brainwashed - brainwashing are the acts we call parenting, upbringing, educating. So you can't be more or can't be less brainwashed.

And i'm just gonna say: "Everyone who stops questioning the truth told by someone else or even himself is going to be lied to."

Or to quote something, i think is right:
"Pure truth no man has seen, nor ever shall know." - Xenophanes
 
Bad_Karma said:
goffy59 said:
I'm just gonna say that I salute wikileaks for being honorable human beings. In a world full of lies, little truth is always welcomed. Its illegal what they are doing to Assange. He didn't leak the information it was the whistle blower. If it wasn't for great people like this man, we would be even more brainwashed then we already are.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." -Ron Paul
Click to expand...

All humans are completly brainwashed - brainwashing are the acts we call parenting, upbringing, educating. So you can't be more or can't be less brainwashed.

And i'm just gonna say: "Everyone who stops questioning the truth told by someone else or even himself is going to be lied to."

Or to quote something, i think is right:
"Pure truth no man has seen, nor ever shall know." - Xenophanes
Click to expand...

I guess a better word then brainwashing would be indoctrination. It seems more accurate as our belief systems are built up at a young age. But to be more "generic", wikileaks publishes information that is in direct conflict with the propaganda spread by the United States. Nationalism is a disease.
 
goffy59 said:
I guess a better word then brainwashing would be indoctrination. It seems more accurate as our belief systems are built up at a young age. But to be more "generic", wikileaks publishes information that is in direct conflict with the propaganda spread by the United States. Nationalism is a disease.
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For me nationalism is just some form of linking yourself toward some generalized group of persons and their wellbeing and apply the simple and natural thinking of "us versus them". I even would dare to say everyone is applying such a thinking, but simply on different scopes.

And the point for some persons simply is that Wikileaks at the moment seems to be threatening the well-being of the USA because their leaks might damage the US of A. And they critizise how it doesn't at the same time leak informations about even less transparent countries and therefore somewhat shifting the well-being of the 'western world' (the question would be if the USA is the main anchor for the well-being of the western world) for the well-being of some 'strangers' in some less developt countries or even more radical and dictatorian countries.
This just might be a question of short-term problems versus long-term benefits, but i would also go as far as the proposed long-term benefit won't come because the whole idea of complete transparency and truth is just an utopia.
 
How can i trust that the information leaked by Wikileaks is true? What if in the thousands of pages of data, there are bits and pieces of well placed fakes?
 
The fact that the US government hasn't said "This isn't true" yet is a pretty good indicator it's legit.
 
Blakut said:
How can i trust that the information leaked by Wikileaks is true? What if in the thousands of pages of data, there are bits and pieces of well placed fakes?
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The fact that they're are doing everything in their power to find out who leaked the info is a good sign as well.
 
Ascendant Meek

Wikileaks is assuming a role long vacant: oversight of the ethics of power. However, it doesn't have the faculties or resources to do it properly and that is dangerous. It does have potential if supported by We, The People. The Media, with it's last, dying-with-print breath, may also abet the birth of a new ethical pluralism.

I hope.

...and vote with my computer.
 
actually what I really find dangerous is how many companies try (either with the preasure of gouvernements or other reasons) to refuse to do buisness with wikileaks. I mean I can understand if they site legal issues as reasons I think Amazon stoped webhosting/serverhosting for Wiki as they said something like Wikileaks doesnt has the rights on the published informations (not sure).

It smells a bit like cencorship. Or some form of it. And thats not a good thing. What ever if Wikileaks is a good thing now or not. But it should have a right to exist. So much for sure.
 
Tylonius Funk said:
Wikileaks is assuming a role long vacant: oversight of the ethics of power.
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Whichs puts them themselves in some point of power, which leads to the simple question who's watching the watchers?

Crni Vuk said:
actually what I really find dangerous is how many companies try (either with the preasure of gouvernements or other reasons) to refuse to do buisness with wikileaks. [...]

It smells a bit like cencorship. Or some form of it. And thats not a good thing. What ever if Wikileaks is a good thing now or not. But it should have a right to exist. So much for sure.
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Well every company is free (to some extent) too choose with who they make contracts. And for me it's quite normal if a firm prefers 'security' (large contract > small ; 100% legal > XX? legal) above unsecure alternatives.

Well the whole 'freedom of speech' is not really existant. As soon as you cross some borders (like that of social norms) you can count on acts of retaliation. -> So too say 'freedom of retaliation'.
And such a retaliation is needed to establish social rules, by which our societies are able to exist. [Not to forget that in most democracies all politcal parties under some percentages get 'censored' in term of time on TV, media coverage or even the right to be heard before parlament and such].
The problem is, that one need to filter between things that should be retaliated or censored, and things that shouldn't. And these things are changing over time (some 100 years ago some 'sex practices' might have been okay or not, but now they're or they aren't).
So damning censorship (or more fitting term-wise - 'filtering') in general might be wrong.
 
the problem is not that a company can choose their consumers or with who they want to make buisness with.

The problem is "soft" preasure. Which can be a form of cencorship if you want so. Imagine it in a way with bulying. Which is a reality in both the media and with companies. There has been a female writter which had some oppinion about families and the society. Nothing new or fancy there but somehow the media decided to mark out of her as nazi in some form ~ despite the fact that she was working with organistations which are protesting against nazis. Which was later criticised a lot by the people as it was a form of bullying just because the theory she had was not populuar with "die hard feminists" (females should care more about children/family then jobs or something like that). The result was the she loost her job as moderator in TV and she was attacked in TV. The last I heard was that she won in ourt though.

It is not clearly cencorship. But it shows where the power lies and how important outside influences are.

Do I personaly agree with Assanage or his clique ? Not really. He is a punk and hooligan in my eyes. But doesnt mean Wikileaks is bad or evil and some kind of anti christ. It is just one phenomena of our digital age. More a product then a new age really. And it can do good work here just as it can do damage somewhere. Its not black or white and there it is really not so much about "right" or "wong". People should remember they did as well released informations about CHina and other nations. Just that it hasnt bothered anyone - people know they are evil so is it surprisng if the bad kidz do bad things ? But if bad kidz which show them self as good kidz now do bad things. Thats a story people love. And now suddenly as its about the US and their actions it suddenly gets interesting. THing is that in the media (europe etc.) actions by the US create a much higher echo then with other nations which is partialy because the media has a high focus on it and because the US is much more prominent in their numbers of conflicts (Somalia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq just to name a few), that are a hell lot of conflicts and of course the higher the number of conflicts the biger the potential for errors. Its not like either the Russians, Chinese or European politics is much better or worse in that matter. Its just that with Russia and Europe many of the conflicts thend to rather point to the inside (Putin and his lidle puppet that is president now). Dump people exist here just like everywhere else. BUt Germany hasnt for example attacked any nations recently or had any real full scale wars, hence less potential for mistakes by soldiers, generals or politicans. Doesnt mean the Germans are inherently better. They just had not the chance to do something wrong. Yet.

Bullying wikileaks is just as wrong like to grant them every kind of freedom that not even a newspaper in the US or Europe would get. Freedom, rights and privilegs citizens and organisations have come not only with the power to do something but also with responsibilities. Like to guarantee the privacy of indidivuals. Just as example.

A politicaly educated citizen should be interested in his nation and politics. Not take everything for granted. If that doesnt happen and people dont care about what their politicans do (patriotism can be a form of propaganda) then I doubt wikileaks will change here anything in the long run. We just have to wait again till the next Justin Biber talks about the awesomness of his mum. Or the next sesion of american idol starts. Or some horroble child killer is in the news. No clue what ever comes first. And people will forget about either Assanage or Wikileaks. And thats actually what makes it so sad. Or have the usual people really learned something from Vietnam when the US military rushed in to Afghanistan and Iraq ? What happend with the Iran–Contra affair. We dont need someone like Assanage to tell us that Watergate can always happen again or that the world is a place with corruption. I mean afterall Wikileaks does only present informations its not like the offer a solution to any of the problems.

But as said. If wikileaks will now loose all its base or server because everyone refuses to work with them that would be indeed a bad sign in my eyes. Not the apocalypse. That for sure. But its somewhat known that where the money is there is democracy. Poor people usualy dont have any choice.
 
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