USA elections

Oh boy did this thread get going. Four people all well-informed with good intentions, but different opinions...I love it!

Well what can I say...some think gay-marriage is wrong. Some think it's ok. Regardless one cant try to convert the other since both opinions are based on faith in an idea.

However I bring this thought up in an attempt to rectify the situation. If marriage is indeed religious in origin as I believe it to be...then why should the government be involved at all? Shouldnt marriage be decided by those to be married and the faith they practice? I mean sure they want all sorts of financial benefits...who says the government should try and differentiate married couples and un-married one's since the difference is clearly based on faith?

I think the thought struck me way back when I heard you need a government "license" to get married. Since when should the government decide anything having to do with marriage? (being that of a religious nature)

(thought provoking),
The Vault Dweller
 
Which reminds me, what the hell does the current discussion have to do with USA elections? We're discussing things that are way out of the scope of an online discussion.

In case you're wondering why I stepped out: civil service really cuts my freetime to a minimum and I want to spend that time on more satisfying things than online discussions.
 
What is morality exactly? My own understanding is that it is a system of beliefs based on the logic (or lack of) of the majority, which is in turn based on instinct and genetics. What else could it be? This is shown in the specific behaviour of people of different cultures, producing different moral codes.

I agree that decisions should be made according to logic and information (Hitler's premise was not logical and not based on information), including laws, and I try to live by this philosophy. I would like to get as close to the truth as possible and not get distracted too much by useless philosophical bullshit. I look at each law that involves me, and I ask myself what its purpose is, logically. Why should I walk on the pedestrian crossing? Because otherwise I raise the chance of causing an accident. Others may not hold this view, but I do. I don't think the law is there for some other reason. If it doesn't make sense, I'll try my best not to obey it. I try to do the 'practical' common sense thing. This means that 99% of the time I am a 'goody two shoes' and sometimes a dangerous rebel. The aim of this logic is for people to be as happy, healthy and free as possible. So I'll apply this idea to some issues, trying to distance myself from my own culture as much as possible.

Homosexuality in adults is genetic and is therefore a natural thing. It causes no harm to me at all, or anyone else. See Ashmo and Sander's posts for more evidence. Tone says that it harms him to have same sex marriage. How? I would not like my children to be homosexual, but I would accept it and hope that they could have the same legal right that everyone else has. I would be upset and disappointed, but would get over it. Weighing their right to be happy and my minor disappointment, there is no competition. There is no logical reason why they should not be allowed to have a same sex marriage.

Pedophilia and other such things are also genetic, although they are far less common. But these practises involve taking away the freedom of others and making them unhappy, causing physical and psychological pain. I do not want people to be in pain because I can empathize and do not want it to happen to me. I feel sorry for the misfortune of others. Thus such extreme anti-social behaviour must be prevented. Rapists must be removed from society or changed so as to protect others.

Why not polygamy, between consenting adults? I do not see this as much of a problem. As long as they can support themselves and maintain all their emotional needs, then why not? The difficulty is measuring the effectiveness of the system. I would have to assess it financially and psychologically, with interviews and in-depth investigation. Then I would advise people as to whether this is a good lifestyle choice, and probably say it isn't. Still, if all involved did want to live that way, then I wouldn't stop them.

Likewise, I see no reason why a legal 'marriage', in the form of an economic partnership, between any adults is a problem. Get rid of the useless label of 'marriage' for law, and leave it for spirituality and social ritual. There are two old sisters who live next door to me, and I think a 'marriage' of convenience would be useful for them, as they have similar financial roles. With the question of children, if they can create a strong family environment, then they can adopt a child or whatever.

Incest is even rarer, as one is not attracted by close family members, as it leads to genetic abnormalities. Cousins have to marry in small communities, but this is still risky and should be avoided if possible.

If you can afford to feed murderers, the element of uncertainty, rehabilitation and mental problems means you should not execute them.

I am not sure as to the level of consciousness of animals, but I know that they feel pain and it is not nice (I empathize). When a fly gets into my house through when the door was open, I genuinely feel sorry for having to kill it. It is annoying, invading my personal space and spreading disease. So I kill it, as quickly as possible. Pain might just be a terminator style warning, but I would rather not take a risk. If it were a clean lizard or bee, I would capture it and release it, as these creatures are useful to me. This might lead to morality, but I see it as logical. I also love meat, so I am not going to be a vegetarian and instead hope that cows or whatever are killed as painlessly as possible. In the future, I hope that we can simply grow meat in vats or manufacture it. As are understanding of the universe slowly grows through science and logic, more problems can be solved. People might have a problem with such things, but I would not.

So in general, I think one should take every situation on a case by case basis, and make a decision which will be most positive for both the individual and the majority. If you have a more difficult problem, gather more information about it, think longer, and make the most practical decision. Morality, whatever that is, might define our behaviour, but I am have little confidence in it when people use morality as an excuse to act without reason. The whole chain of understanding should be correct. It will never be perfect, but we should try to make it so.
 
What is morality exactly? My own understanding is that it is a system of beliefs based on the logic (or lack of) of the majority, which is in turn based on instinct and genetics. What else could it be? This is shown in the specific behaviour of people of different cultures, producing different moral codes.
Morality is what someone believes to be right or wrong, this doesn't have to have anything to do with the majority of the people, but with your personal preferences. Possibly evolution, genetics, your society and whatnot play a role, but ultimately morality remains personal. Look at people like Nietzsche, who had a moral system which went completely against anything anyone of his day stood for.

And the point of arguing that morality should not lead or actions is moot. That would mean we'd be completely passive and do nothing, because every one of our actions is based on morality. Your morality is, for as far as I can tell, whatever is useful to me or society is good. So you try to reason from that starting point and try to get as good results as possible (though I think you'll find yourself making ad hoc justifications), but those are based on your morality. That's the entire point: humans cannot live without morality, and morality also defines who we are. Trying to eliminate morality from life is silly and could lead to the loss of one of the things that makes us human: heavy emotions.
That's not to say, though, that using logic and facts to try to comprehend things and come to decisions isn't good, because it is. It's probably the only semi-reliable tool we have to try to comprehend things, but you should never forget that you are basing your decisions on morality.
 
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