Valve has a noticeably uncreative corporate culture

[Ilosar]

It's more the general tone. You know, starting a thread about it and all. I don't think you're ''bashing'' per se, but it's pretty clear you do not fully approve of what they are doing. Those Gabe Newell pics do not help

You are right when you say Valve's shining reputation is all made up, of course, all shining reputations are anyway. The TF2 hat-craze and microtransaction business more or less threw me off the game altogether. They certainly are an example of good PR in the video game industry. It also helps pretty much every game their own studio makes is an almost instant classic.

 

[SuAside]

But... Valve makes hats. That's creative, right?

 

[Brother None]

It's more the general tone.

Oh, well I'm sorry if my tone doesn't please you.

You know, starting a thread about it and all.

I did not. I made a remark in the Jason Anderson newsthread that eventually got split into a thread because it derailed off as a debate, which is what you see here.

Those Gabe Newell pics do not help

I'm sorry I have a sense of humor.

If you read between the lines, you'll see I'm not bashing Valve. I'm bashing those people who buy into the PR. Valve is a better company than EA, consumer-relations wise, but they're still a company. They do shit like microtransactions, Steam DRM, and they get away with it where other companies would not.

The whole point of comparing them to EA, which was once again missed by Ausdoerrt, is not equating the two, it's saying that on the internet, criticizing EA scores you cool kid points, whereas talking about anything on Valve that isn't adulation, and people pop out of the woodworks defending them and calling you a hater. I'm encouraging people to be smarter consumers. If they don't want to hear that, it ain't on me.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

EA: Hey guys, if you want you can buy new costumes for your guy in Dead Space 2 for $5.

Internet: BOOO! YOU'RE CHEATING US OF MONEY FOR STUFF THAT'S IN THE GAME!

Valve: Hey guys, if you want you can buy keys to unlock boxes with costumes for your guy in Team Fortress 2 for $5

Internet: Wooo! That's so creative and supports a small company like Valve!

Lesson Learned: Put things in boxes, people love boxes.

 

[34thcell]

No one would give EA shit for anything if they churned out better games. That's what it comes down to and everyone knows this, so what's the point of discussion?

 

[Crni Vuk]

No one would give EA shit for anything if they churned out better games. That's what it comes down to and everyone knows this, so what's the point of discussion?

That is actually pretty easy to answer:

The whole point of comparing them to EA, which was once again missed by Ausdoerrt, is not equating the two, it's saying that on the internet, criticizing EA scores you cool kid points, whereas talking about anything on Valve that isn't adulation, and people pop out of the woodworks defending them and calling you a hater. I'm encouraging people to be smarter consumers. If they don't want to hear that, it ain't on me.

Com on guys I am almost dyslexic (or what its called ...) and even I can get BNs point.

 

[34thcell]

What does this have to do with being a smart customer? Is the morality of a purchase important? Does the business behind it have to be a tower of creativity and goodness? Buying a game because it's Valve is probably not such a bad idea.

 

[clercqer]

BN you troll. What IS your point?

 

[Crni Vuk]

What does this have to do with being a smart customer? Is the morality of a purchase important? Does the business behind it have to be a tower of creativity and goodness? Buying a game because it's Valve is probably not such a bad idea.

So you don't think one should not eventually try to question the motivations of the companies or "why" they sell you something and how they do it ?

Seriously. What is bad with trying to understand the marketing strategies or system behind how and why a company sells their goods ? I mean yeah ...

 

[34thcell]

What does that have to do with being a smart customer? Was BN's point that people are hypocrites? If I am an Internet guy and I buy an inhouse Bethesda game, I am statistically likely to enjoy it. If Bethesda had made Morrowind 2 instead of Oblivion, a whole chapter of codex and NMA history would have turned out differently, but the company would still be just as moral.

I can clearly be a hypocrite and a smart customer at the same time.

 

[Brother None]

What does this have to do with being a smart customer? Is the morality of a purchase important?

Morality? What does that have to do with anything?

To be a smart consumer it helps to be conscious of how a company operates, and to not hold different companies to different standards. Or, to put it differently, Valve PR wants you to buy their whole "we're super consumer friendly" angle, and a smart consumer shouldn't just buy into that unthinkingly.

I wasn't telling anyone how to buy. I own a lot of Valve games and enjoyed them all (except HL2 Ep1, which is cash-in shit, but it didn't cost me much so eh), I use Steam and love it. But why lie? Why call it anything other than what it is? Why does Steam DRM get a free pass when other DRM does not? I don't care, I'm not as anti-DRM as others, but for those others, hold em to the same standards.

Was BN's point that people are hypocrites?

No, my point was people buy into PR too easily. Hypocrisy could be an apt turn but it would assume I think the fault lies with people consciously doing it, and I don't.

Also, why you're bringing Bethesda into this is beyond me.

 

[Ilosar]

I guess Steam is a bit less intrusive than other DRMs, along with all the insane sales they sometimes have and the (from my experience) very good tech support. It is still a DRM, mind you, just easier to swallow than most.

It's true that Valve has one hell of a cult following (their track record helps tremendously), and they cultivate that aspect very well, and why not? If you are capable of doing good PR, you should, the reputation of your company is extremely important.

Also, PR is not lying, it's presenting facts in a way that makes your organization look better, and no, it's not the same thing. As an example; since Steam allows you to buy games and also acts as a tech support platform, not just for it's DRM component, but for the very games that it provides, it can reasonably be called a "service" (it's not like the term is protected by laws or something). SecuRom, on the other hand, is only DRM and nothing else. In that case, calling it a ""service" would be a fabrication and a lie, I guess.

If people buy into it easily, well, there's consumer-based society for you. It's not Valve's fault, hell it advantages them, why should they abstain from doing successful PR? The whole of PR is to make people believe your organization can serve the public and not exclusively itself.

 

[Brother None]

Also, PR is not lying

I never said so.

It's not Valve's fault, hell it advantages them, why should they abstain from doing successful PR?

Frith grant me patience because you guys are really wearing on my nerves now.

I did not say it's Valve's "fault", or indicate that their PR strategy is wrong in any way. Why the hell is it so hard for people in this thread to read what I'm saying without reading something extra into it.

 

[Ilosar]

Why do you call Steam being presented as a service a lie then?

But yeah, OK, I get it, you think people fall for PR too easily. I have given a shy beginning of an answer in this case, what with Steam being more mellow than any DRM and all, but as to why people as so gullible, you would need to ask a person of higher authority about PR, plus a sociologist or two. This issue is much bigger than just Steam or Valve, I'd wager.

 

[Brother None]

Why do you call Steam being presented as a service a lie then?

I did not, you misread. In fact I did not even mention the term service, so I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Also I loathe PR as a branch but it's a necessary part of the industry and Valve are no worse than others. The cult is just people talking nonsense to themselves though, and that bugs me.

 

[34thcell]

"Valve, Blizzard and Bethesda make games that I love, therefore they are the good guys. "

That is the extent of the cult. The best PR seems to be to consistently make games that people like. The Internet would ignore EA's questionable behaviour if they did this.

 

[Ilosar]

You loathe the branch I will probably work in then . But people talk nonsense to themselves all the time on far graver issues. Besides, cult followings aren't exactly a rare or unwelcome thing, just look at this here website (I do agree Valve has irrational fanboys that only Blizzard can rival in terms of intensity, but since there are so many of them a bunch of loons is to be expected).

Also, sorry about misreading, I just figured you somehow blamed Valve for lying about what Steam is (some do, and I find it annoying myself, I am no Valve apologist but they have every right to call Steam a service and not an Evil DRM of Doom like some proclaim it is). Glad to see it's not the case.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

BN you troll. What IS your point?

I agree. Crni seems to think (the most 'constructive' post up to now) that BN is complaining about EA being bashed more than Valve for doing the same kinds of things. So there's more Valve fanboys on the Internets, where BN tends to hang out. What gives?

Had he not been trolling, he would've made clear what he wants to say to begin with.

 

[Crni Vuk]

*shrugs* thx. I guess

I don't know. Maybe BN is trolling Valve. And many here jump on him for that (I exaggerate it a bit for the drama you know) which is from how I understand it the whole point since saying the same about EA or Ubisoft for that matter will bring you positive points. So people set a standard for Valve which seems to be lower or at least different then to other comparable companies. That has nothing to do with hating Valve or EA. Just an observation I think. I would guess that BN has some insight in it considering his work with games writing reviews and such stuff ~ Or maybe it is some personal grudge because Valve never bothered enough to send BN the correct expensive hookers and high quality cocaine while doing his playtesting in the Hilton. Not sure if the "term" expert can be used here (can someone be an expert for gaming ?).

 

[Brother None]

that BN is complaining about EA being bashed more than Valve for doing the same kinds of things.

Not "the same kind of things", as I've already said multiple times, but otherwise, that's as close to understanding me as you've got, so I guess yes?

Had he not been trolling, he would've made clear what he wants to say to begin with.

Again, this is a thread that got split off from a joke post of mine when it turned into a discussion. I did not start a thread saying nothing more than it says in the OP.

I'm not going to repeat myself again for your sake. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. And I'd think a bit more carefully before flinging the term troll around, which is in fact against the rules.

Not sure if the "term" expert can be used here (can someone be an expert for gaming ?).

Yes, but I'm not one. I'm too genre and platform-biased to be. I don't know how many true experts there are out there. Not a lot.

The Internet would ignore EA's questionable behaviour if they did this.

Yeah, I'm sure EA became the biggest publisher in the world (not anymore though) by making games no one wants to play. This little side-theory of yours is pretty ludicrous I'm afraid. Not that it doesn't hold a grain of truth, but it doesn't correlate directly as you imply.