Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

[FearMonkey]

Cain and Boyarsky are not on the team making Bloodlines. They'll be too busy with the public beta of The Outer Worlds on EGS for a year or so.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I am very glad to see that NMA never dissapoints with cynism. I love this community. I really do!

 

[Mr Fish]

I am very glad to see that NMA never dissapoints with cynism. I love this community. I really do!

What positive stuff is there to say about it?

The trailer is CGI trash, there's nothing positive to say about it than "it looks good for a CGI trailer".
The promises given is just promises with nothing to back them up, I personally can't see how there's anything to be positive about with this because I've heard far too many developers promise things that they didn't live up to.
And the only other thing is their comments on mental health issues which I detailed why I find their take on it misguided even though I understand it is probably done to avoid outrage from a twitter hashtag trend.

If you have something positive to say about it then by all means I'm all ears cause I don't want a successor to VtmB to be shit but nothing I've seen or read gives me any confidence as the current gaming market seems to shudder away from old game mecahnics such as stats or skills and the setting, story, characters and culture of VtmB is clearly too risqué and controversial for todays political climate.

I never asked for a VtmB 2 but if I'm gonna get one I expect it to be VtmB 2, none of what I heard sounds like they'll live up to that end of the bargain so I can't see anything to be positive about. As more news come in and we get proper gameplay and they break down how character build and progression works I'll revise my stance on it but my initial reaction can't be anything but utter cynicism.

[edit]

And I don't want to be negative about stuff anymore. It's just disheartening to care about something and then see it go down in flames. I don't revel in it the way I used to.

 

[Norzan]

It's really the only reaction people can have when they have been getting disappointment after disappointment for literally years. After a while you just get bitter and cynical and not something you can't easily just turn off.


Also, apparently Hardsuit Labs made two games: https://www.metacritic.com/company/hardsuit-labs?filter-options=games&num_items=30&sort_options=date. Blacklight Retribution isn't mentioned here for some reason, so i guess three.

I know this isn't always a sign that the game is going to be trash, but it's still concerning.

 

[FearMonkey]

What positive stuff is there to say about it?

For me the big positive is that Brian Mitsoda is the lead narrative writer and he is the reason the writing on the original Bloodlines was so good. So if he's on the project, I'm sure at least the writing will be good. They also have MCA on the team who is my favorite writer in video games. And since Mitsoda is involved, at least we're getting a true sequel to Bloodlines 1 and not fan fiction.

If combat is full melee and no shooting, while it is disappointing, I hardly ever find the combat the main reason I like the original Bloodlines so it's whatever for me. And I've played through Bloodlines 1 at least 8 times by now. Once for each clan and I played twice as Malkavian. Currently on my 2nd run through as Nosferatu since Wesp put out a 10.3 release candidate recently. So that'd be my 9th time. And combat is just something I have to do to get to the next bit of writing. So I'll just deal with combat in Bloodlines 2. I'm just pragmatic in that way I guess. Your mileage on that issue may obviously vary.

Everything else sounds fine to me so far. I really think it's too early for me to start worrying about it. But I am definitely holding off my pre-order until the first gameplay demo, just to be sure.

 

[Norzan]

It's been 15 years since Bloodlines 1 and people change. What you were 15 years ago and now can be two completely different persons. Just because the lead narrative writer for the first game is in this game, doesn't mean the writing will be good by default (specially with the bullshit of inclusivity they are already mentioning and Malkavian's insanity not being "done right" in the original).

Anyone working on anything is no longer a guarantee of anything and it comes off as extremely naive when people assume something will be good just because a specific person is working on it.

And because the combat "wasn't good" in the original, there's no excuse to start removing parts of it. Instead of removing it, improve it. Making guns "temporary opportunities" is idiotic design.

 

[Mr Fish]

That does sound good for the narrative aspect.

Also in case anyone want to call SJW on it I just remembed that in the trailer the 4 people shown not fighting against were all white and the one lady packed bombs for tits so I dunno how worried to be about SJW stuff if that trailer is anything to go by. I don't expect forced diversity. Still don't like the idea of choosing "pronouns" and "body types" but I suppose it'd be easier than having [Male] [Female], [Cis] [Trans]. And I wouldn't mind that kind of inclusivity to be honest. I just hope that it stops there and that they don't add in anything like "they their" as pronouns as I find that insulting towards actual trans people.

 

[Alphons]

The only interesting thing right now is that closed demo, which got many journos pretty excited. Everything else is full CGI trailer and some vague statements.

I won't mind them throwing some social justice into it- as long as I can disagree or outright tell someone to fuck off, then I don't care.

 

[FearMonkey]

It's been 15 years since Bloodlines 1 and people change. What you were 15 years ago and now can be two completely different persons. Just because the lead narrative writer for the first game is in this game, doesn't mean the writing will be good by default (specially with the bullshit of inclusivity they are already mentioning and Malkavian's insanity not being "done right" in the original).

Anyone working on anything is no longer a guarantee of anything and it comes off as extremely naive when people assume something will be good just because a specific person is working on it.

See, this is a case of someone being a bit overly-cynical. There's no evidence to say either way if he's changed, since I don't believe he was the one who made that comment about Malkavian insanity. Not sure though. Regardless, I think you're jumping the gun just a wee bit. IMO.

That does sound good for the narrative aspect.

Also in case anyone want to call SJW on it I just remembed that in the trailer the 4 people shown not fighting against were all white and the one lady packed bombs for tits so I dunno how worried to be about SJW stuff if that trailer is anything to go by. I don't expect forced diversity. Still don't like the idea of choosing "pronouns" and "body types" but I suppose it'd be easier than having [Male] [Female], [Cis] [Trans]. And I wouldn't mind that kind of inclusivity to be honest. I just hope that it stops there and that they don't add in anything like "they their" as pronouns as I find that insulting towards actual trans people.

Also, the writers said the game is still going to be sexy. I don't expect being able to dress your ghoul in lingerie this time (female or male ), but Seduction is definitely going to be implemented which leads to all sorts of situations.

EDIT:
Oh, apparently Rik Schaffer, the original composer, is coming back for Bloodlines 2.

how do you embed tweets?

https://twitter.com/outstarwalker/status/1109127882423492608?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1109127882423492608&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1109127882423492608

 

[Norzan]

See, this is a case of someone being a bit overly-cynical. There's no evidence to say either way if he's changed, since I don't believe he was the one who made that comment about Malkavian insanity. Not sure though. Regardless, I think you're jumping the gun just a wee bit. IMO.

Nah, being realistic. There's also no evidence of his writing quality being the same as before. Being overly optimistic can be much worse than being cynical.

 

[FearMonkey]

Nah, being realistic. There's also no evidence of his writing quality being the same as before. Being overly optimistic can be much worse than being cynical.

Well, there's Dead State, which is the most recent game of his I played. But it was about zombies and had a different tone than Bloodlines, but still plenty of absurd comedy. But we'll see I guess. He still has a publisher that he most likely has to listen to.

 

[Norzan]

My problem with inclusivity is not even with itself because i'm fine with it when it's done right. But a lot of the times, it's at expense of good writing and creating completely flawless characters with no character arc or personal growth. Just a character that exists solely to pander to specific people.

And one of the reasons that i'm not sold on the writing quality of the game is because the publisher can easily go to Brian and say "we don't want that" whenever he writes something to risqué for today standards. Publisher interference is quite common these days.

 

[FearMonkey]

My problem with inclusivity is not even with itself because i'm fine with it when it's done right. But a lot of the times, it's at expense of good writing and creating completely flawless characters with no character arc or personal growth. Just a character that exists solely to pander to specific people.

When I read this, The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi sprang immediately to mind.

And one of the reasons that i'm not sold on the writing quality of the game is because the publisher can easily go to Brian and say "we don't want that" whenever he writes something to risqué for today standards. Publisher interference is quite common these days.

Hey, I just said that.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

Still don't like the idea of choosing "pronouns"

Key word: CHOOSING. At the end of the day it's just an extra checkbox.
It would be "murrshun breaking" for me if my 6'6 Juggernaut with a sledgehammer gets referred to as "she" but that's just me. Who knows. There might be people who find this more immersive and good on them.
What I WOULD like to see is some NPCs reacting differently if you chose a mismatched Bio-Pronoun, actually have it factor into gameplay than just a meaningless checkbox.

"body types"

Seriously? This is a bad thing? Hell no. I've always wanted a chance to play FO2 as either the Vic or the Dwarf character model, either of which you can also combine with low int char and low charm for that added layer of hilarity.
If would be better to actually have different character model types as opposed to what they did in FO3, scaling down the heights of the Big Town teens to give them the appearance of looking younger.

Also I see people complaining about choosing previous occupation. Again how is this a bad thing?
The Shadowrun games implemented this feature: https://shadowrun.gamepedia.com/Etiquette

 

[FearMonkey]

Key word: CHOOSING. At the end of the day it's just an extra checkbox.
It would be "murrshun breaking" for me if my 6'6 Juggernaut with a sledgehammer gets referred to as "she" but that's just me. Who knows. There might be people who find this more immersive and good on them.
What I WOULD like to see is some NPCs reacting differently if you chose a mismatched Bio-Pronoun, actually have it factor into gameplay than just a meaningless checkbox.

Man, I really hope they do this. The devs did talk at length during interviews about how much reactivity the game has. So maybe they'll do that. Hopefully not to be sly or coy but actual reaction due to how the characters themselves act about these things. Make it organic and not forced.

Also I see people complaining about choosing previous occupation. Again how is this a bad thing?
The Shadowrun games implemented this feature: https://shadowrun.gamepedia.com/Etiquette

Hell, even the original VtM:Bloodlines had Histories planned for it but had to be removed due to lack of time. The Plus Patch adds them back in.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

Hell, even the original VtM:Bloodlines had Histories planned for it but had to be removed due to lack of time. The Plus Patch adds them back in.

Come to think of it, Arcanum did this too. Character backstory affected status gains and bonuses. I even remember one backstory giving you that Stupid dialogue without your character actually having low int.
If these are the same people at Troika implementing this feat then they know what they're doing.

 

[joevonzombie]

I try to dial back my cynicism to a nice "cautiously optimistic" level until I've seen actual gameplay footage. The "everything is garbage until proven otherwise" mentality isn't particularly constructive or healthy. If you're that jaded and cynical towards the medium, you need to find a new hobby because you're clearly not deriving any enjoyment out of it at that point.

 

[Mr Fish]

Key word: CHOOSING.

As I said in my last post, I don't mind the idea of it so long as they don't start throwing xhi or xharxhelastilhost around.

Seriously? This is a bad thing?

Yeah, that was totally what I meant.

I try to dial back my cynicism to a nice "cautiously optimistic" level until I've seen actual gameplay footage. The "everything is garbage until proven otherwise" mentality isn't particularly constructive or healthy. If you're that jaded and cynical towards the medium, you need to find a new hobby because you're clearly not deriving any enjoyment out of it at that point.

But I'm playing Dark Souls right now and enjoying it while at the same time looking at VtmB2 skeptically to the point of edging the line of cynicism.

Like, I enjoy games. They just have to be good games.

 

[Norzan]

If you're that jaded and cynical towards the medium, you need to find a new hobby because you're clearly not deriving any enjoyment out of it at that point.

When mediocrity has been commonplace in the medium for so long, people have no choice but to be apprehensive and skeptical. People want good games but when that happens not so often, people get cynical.

Specially when devs start to claim questionable things prior to release. And don't misconstrue my skepticism towards this game as being cynical against the whole medium. I'm just being skeptical towards this game specifically because they are claiming stuff i'm not exactly a fan of.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

Yeah, that was totally what I meant.

this game need Nutsack physics for all characters regardless of chosen gender. Nutsack physics or Boycott