Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

[MPPlantOfficial]

They've responded to "wokeness" concerns.

People would've understood by now that "politically charged" could mean the power struggle between clans and sects within the game's lore but no. People always assume it means "oRaNg3 m@n b@d" or "femmernasts propaganda"

 

[Risewild]

Even if I did believe you actually did this

So now you call me a liar. Well argued. Why do I keep wasting my time.

Nobody who is looking to to emulate Nintendo's consoles are looking to play abandonware. If you're playing Nintendo's first party software on an emulator, you've likely stolen it.

Again, I didn't steal anything and I own the games. Do you have any idea how large NES cartridges are? I can't fit all the ones I own on a suitcase even in 10 trips.

You say one thing, I provide legal stuff that contradicts what you say, you then call me a liar.

You say I'm cynical, but you're the one assuming everyone who uses ROMS are thieves just to suit your arguments. You totally lied about emulation being illegal, which it is not:

Videogame lawyer Jas Purewal, of digital entertainment and technology legal firm Purewal & Partners LLP:
It's a gray area, but the legal consensus in most places seems to be that an emulator in and of itself is not illegal.
(...)
[This question] cuts right to the heart of the latest law on emulation, which is that in Europe, the US and elsewhere, there seems to be an evolving consensus that an emulator, in itself, is not illegal and doesn't infringe copyright or trademark law.

If it is being used for entirely legitimate purposes, for the purpose of that user being able to still enjoy content that he or she has legitimately purchased [note: and copied themselves rather than downloaded], then that is an indication that usage of the emulator will be legal.

And yes, back when I had plenty of money, I bought most consoles and hundreds or thousands of games, because like Walpknut said, I'm a bit of a "MY PHYSICAL COPIES!!!!". The only console I didn't get before the Playstation 1 (PSX not PS1) was released, was a SNES.
I have several threads and posts around NMA since I joined about the tons of classic games I own and played when I was growing up.

You know what I use the PSX and PS2 emulators I have on my computer? To mostly play the actual physical disks I managed to bring to Australia already. I still have around 50 copies I made from my favorite PSX and PS2 games (that I own but couldn't bring here yet) in an external hard drive, but I rarely use it because I'm scared the hard drive will stop working (I have had bad experiences with all the external HD I ever got, so I'm cautious about them).

I already managed to bring 100+ PC games, 30+ PS2 games and around 10 PSP and 10 PSX games (PSX game boxes are more fragile and after I broke a couple the first time, I decided to bring the PS2 and PC games I own first, because those won't break so easily) in two trips in the last 10 years. After I manage to bring all the games I own for those platforms, I will try to bring all of my ZX Spectrum, NES and Mega Drive games, then I will finally bring the old portable games for Gameboy, GameGear, Gameboy Advance and the rest of the PSP ones.
The problem is that I already got warned on the customs last time, because I brought tons of PC games and the customs officer warned me to be careful or I might be confused as a smuggler . Luckily all my games were already unwrapped and many still had the receipt with the date of purchase (in case I needed to return any that broke) and they were bought at least 10 years ago . But I still got warned about the quantity of games I was bringing with me .
I hate cameras but I will try to take a pic of some of my games just to showoff as a kind of proof or something.

EDIT: I got a pic, but I don't know how to use cameras, so I have no idea how to take pics without getting them blurry.

Spoiler: Pic

Some of my PS2, PSX and PSP games:

For a shaky pic with tons of my PC games included check this post.

 

[Buxbaum666]

They are overpriced because you can get free emulators that do more than any of the official "minis".

It's still easier to just use a free emulator .

And yes, back when I had plenty of money, I bought most consoles and hundreds or thousands of games

Again, I didn't steal anything and I own the games.

Right, so when you say "free" and "easier" you mean that you can play for free the ROMs of games you bought and personally extracted (easily) from their cartridges using specialized hardware you also bought. (for at least 65 Euro plus shipping from Germany, 125 Euro if you get the plugins for all supported platforms)
Did I get this right? Please correct me if I misunderstood.

This also created a different problem for emulator fans. Nintendo started to force many emulator sites to close after they released their "minis".

As far as I know, Nintendo did not force "emulator sites" to close. They sued ROM sites.
I mean, I don't disagree about that being a dick move.

Also many games and programs are abandonware and so you can get them legally from the internet, so those are not piracy either.

You can get them legally if the rights owner has released them as freeware. Otherwise it's still piracy.

Again, I didn't steal anything and I own the games.

Yeah, your previous posts are kinda conflicting in this regard. Besides you constantly claiming that emulators are a good free alternative to the official mini consoles, you also said this:

I would prefer to have the physical consoles and cartridges, but I have no money for them.

And you know I can just download more roms and don't have to hack anything to play them in an emulator, right?

 

[Mr Fish]

:thinking:

So... Does this mean that the far leftists will attack them for calling people with mental illnesses and queer muslim vampires "monsters"?

 

[Risewild]

Right, so when you say "free" and "easier" you mean that you can play for free the ROMs of games you bought and personally extracted (easily) from their cartridges using specialized hardware you also bought. (for at least 65 Euro plus shipping from Germany, 125 Euro if you get the plugins for all supported platforms)
Did I get this right? Please correct me if I misunderstood.


As far as I know, Nintendo did not force "emulator sites" to close. They sued ROM sites.
I mean, I don't disagree about that being a dick move.


You can get them legally if the rights owner has released them as freeware. Otherwise it's still piracy.


Yeah, your previous posts are kinda conflicting in this regard. Besides you constantly claiming that emulators are a good free alternative to the official mini consoles, you also said this:

Yes, because then you are not limited to a selection of games including ones you don't like, and you can play without the need of a TV and controllers either, not to mention many console minis users complain about how the controller cables are too short.

You know, I just posted in the previous post that I use PSX and PS2 emulators to play THE PHYSICAL COPIES I OWN.
It's much easier to use than hack a PS classic to add roms, and I can't even use my physical disks on it for example.

Kazoo (to rip NES games) used to cost $20 less than 2 years ago.
And yes, if you get Retrode 2 with all plugins for €105.5 (I notice you pushed the price up for some reason) you can not only rip games from 7 different consoles (N64, GameBoy, GameBoy Color, Game Boy Advance, Sega Master System and SNES/SFC and Genesis/Mega Drive) but you can actually use Retrode 2 to play the cartridges in your PC if you have a free emulator. Then if you rip the game, you can just put it on whatever device you run your emulator and play it, it has the added bonus that your device can be portable, like a tablet or smart phone. I would say it's quite worth the price.

Also we can get plenty of consoles and games for cheaper than the minis, if we look around:
Here's one example (Selling a NDS + SNES + Sega Gamegear + Gameboy + PS4 with games and "more") all for A$180 (US $127.56).
Here is someone selling 21 GBA games for A$49 (US $41.81).
Here is someone selling an Atari with 99 games for A$40 (US $28.36) and it's negotiable, which means the seller is willing to sell it for a bit less than that.

And this was just from searching for 5 minutes on one Aussie site. I can only imagine the bargains that are happening in international places like Ebay for example (I remember years ago Ebay having several NES bulk sales with 50+ game cartridges).
So comparing the prices I can get for a lot of stuff with the minis prices, I still say it's overpriced.

Also this is weird, you say it's easier to add an extra step of hacking a mini/classic which I'm pretty sure it's illegal, than using a legal free emulator to run your physical or legal ripped roms?

So let's see... If a person legally rip their games, they set up the hardware, install the software and then just place the cartridge in the slot and press a couple of buttons (as long as they are informed of the memory type/model/chipset the game uses, which is not hard to know), then it's done. The rom is ready and you can use it on an emulator. Now, you say it's easier to just had the steps of hacking your mini console, then connect whatever you have to connect to the mini console and transfer the rom to this new device?
How is it easier? Not to mention you're already doing something illegal .

Also, with the minis you're stuck with games you don't like and you're paying for those too.

I don't see any contradiction on what I said. I would love to have an Amiga or a DOS pc or any other old computer type and have games and software for those. I have a ZX Spectrum on the other side of the world, but I don't have a cassette player that works for it anymore. But I can't afford buying all of those, so I have to resort to roms.
I already said that there are plenty of old gaming systems that have a lot of Abandonware, you can get those for free and you don't need to own a physical copy of them. Spectrum, Amiga, DOS, etc. have a lot of games that the copyright doesn't have a real holder anymore, or that copyright owners declared it abandonware.
So yeah, for those you can just download the roms and play on an emulator for free.

EDIT: This doesn't really relate to this discussion, but it might be interesting for people interested in legal rom access. There is a company that "rents" roms. You can play Atari, Nintendo, and Coleco Games for free, but if you pay a subscription and have access to a wide variety of roms from several other platforms (Sega Genesis, SMS, Nintendo 64, GBA, GB Color, Gameboy, Sega Game Gear, TurboGrafx-16 Games). The thing is that once someone is "renting" a rom, no one else can use that rom. These roms were ripped by the company from real cartridges they own and they only have one rom of each. This is what makes the whole thing legal.
Console Classix

 

[FDO]

They've responded to "wokeness" concerns.
View attachment 12047
View attachment 12047 View attachment 12048

These messages don't mean much, or rather they could mean anything, depending on how you see it.
You could say it is already like that in the original Bloodlines, with humanity points being losable and reedemable, but it didn't have much impact on the game either way.
I am too suspicious of pre-release publicity to have a actual idea about trying or not trying games anyway, my magical guts will know what to do when I come across it on GOG store. If it is released on GOG that is.

edit, don't know what you guys above are arguing about exactly but it surely have nothing to do with whether any of you is a pirate or not?

 

[Risewild]

edit, don't know what you guys above are arguing about exactly but it surely have nothing to do with whether any of you is a pirate or not?

Nah, it's not about if anyone is a pirate or not, it's about if the latest trend of "Console Mini/Classic" is something overpriced or not...

But you're right about not knowing what we are all about... This is the Bloodlines 2 thread and we have been derailing it with useless bickering.
I even forgot what thread this was, to be honest... Well, let me apologize and from now on, I will try to keep on topic.

So Vampires The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 .
Here it is an interview about Bloodlines 2, I don't know if it was posted before, but it's just a couple days old... Even if it was posted before, it probably became buried with all the offtopic I was part of:
https://venturebeat.com/2019/03/26/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-ii-interview-brian-mitsoda/

Note: This bit kinda worries me

Mitsoda: I don’t think I’ve ever had a game come together this fast. We literally just—it was over a couple of different sessions of sitting down and talking story, fleshing it out, that we developed the story very quickly and the systems very quickly. It was kind of unparalleled compared to any other development I’ve been on.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

These messages don't mean much, or rather they could mean anything, depending on how you see it.
You could say it is already like that in the original Bloodlines, with humanity points being losable and reedemable, but it didn't have much impact on the game either way.

See here's the thing: IF somehow the writers DO implement "orange man bad", "femmurnasts", Queer Minority Werewolf fighting for other queer minority mummies, and other "EssJayDubba" characters in the game, it's not like you're FORCED to agree and do quests for these characters.
You'll always get the option to turn on these characters, maybe even sneak attack or cast Level 5 Dominate (Suicide) or worse spells on them.

So in the end wouldn't the presence of these characters be a good thing for every type of player?
These "anti-outrage" groups (opposite side of exact same fucking coin) seem to hate choice and want a linear experience.

 

[Alphons]

Mitsoda's previous game (Dead State) had several "woke politics", but they didn't put any barriers on paths he (or his wife) was clearly opposing. Joining far- right redneck militia that thinks that zombie apocalypse was started by Muslims or sent down by God as a way to cleanse the Earth of minorities and gays is available just like an alliance with military. Nothing stops you when you convince a girl that abortion might not be a best option.

I think that all talk about "opening for new players" and jerking over pronouns is just a big marketing stunt- which I think was pretty successful, considering how much it made some people talk about the game over these last days (despite them giving almost no information and promising gameplay in early 2020).

 

[I eat supermutants]

I'm taking a hard wait and see approach to this one. I've seen so many sequels/prequels to my past favorites turn to shit for me to be optimistic about it. I don't get hyped for games like I used to. That being said I hope I am surprised.
As far as the "controversy" is concerned, just keep flinging shit at each other. It's entertaining to say the least. Honestly everything feels like a PR stunt anymore.

EDIT: Just looked at several stores and such. Top seller already? Goddamn people replaced God with game developers. So much faith in something they've never seen.

 

[FDO]

See here's the thing: IF somehow the writers DO implement "orange man bad", "femmurnasts", Queer Minority Werewolf fighting for other queer minority mummies, and other "EssJayDubba" characters in the game, it's not like you're FORCED to agree and do quests for these characters.
You'll always get the option to turn on these characters, maybe even sneak attack or cast Level 5 Dominate (Suicide) or worse spells on them.

So in the end wouldn't the presence of these characters be a good thing for every type of player?
These "anti-outrage" groups (opposite side of exact same fucking coin) seem to hate choice and want a linear experience.

I get your general meaning, but can you or someone edify me for curiosity sake on these?
Because my browser isn't doing well when I search them.

Orange man bad: Some comic book character?
Femmurnasts: Something to do with extreme feminism?
EssJayDubba: ???

Personaly I always take it as a bad sign when a game want to accomodate the widest possible audience.
It mean that ressources which could be invested better are often wasted in this kind of accomodating instead.

 

[Buxbaum666]

Orange man bad: Some comic book character?

Trump is orange. The phrase "Orange man bad" is a parody usually used by Trump supporters to mock and swiftly dismiss any criticism of him.

Femmurnasts: Something to do with extreme feminism?

I haven't come across this spelling before but apparently "feminist" is now a derogatory term.

EssJayDubba: ???

= SJW = Social Justice Warrior = pejorative label for over-zealous and self-righteous people, who certainly exist, but usually used by right-wingers to mock and swiftly dismiss any opinions that could be construed as left-of-center. (or, increasingly, left-of-extreme-right)

I hope I could be of service.

 

[joevonzombie]

Yes, because then you are not limited to a selection of games including ones you don't like, and you can play without the need of a TV and controllers either, not to mention many console minis users complain about how the controller cables are too short.

You know, I just posted in the previous post that I use PSX and PS2 emulators to play THE PHYSICAL COPIES I OWN.
It's much easier to use than hack a PS classic to add roms, and I can't even use my physical disks on it for example.

Kazoo (to rip NES games) used to cost $20 less than 2 years ago.
And yes, if you get Retrode 2 with all plugins for €105.5 (I notice you pushed the price up for some reason) you can not only rip games from 7 different consoles (N64, GameBoy, GameBoy Color, Game Boy Advance, Sega Master System and SNES/SFC and Genesis/Mega Drive) but you can actually use Retrode 2 to play the cartridges in your PC if you have a free emulator. Then if you rip the game, you can just put it on whatever device you run your emulator and play it, it has the added bonus that your device can be portable, like a tablet or smart phone. I would say it's quite worth the price.

Also we can get plenty of consoles and games for cheaper than the minis, if we look around:
Here's one example (Selling a NDS + SNES + Sega Gamegear + Gameboy + PS4 with games and "more") all for A$180 (US $127.56).
Here is someone selling 21 GBA games for A$49 (US $41.81).
Here is someone selling an Atari with 99 games for A$40 (US $28.36) and it's negotiable, which means the seller is willing to sell it for a bit less than that.

And this was just from searching for 5 minutes on one Aussie site. I can only imagine the bargains that are happening in international places like Ebay for example (I remember years ago Ebay having several NES bulk sales with 50+ game cartridges).
So comparing the prices I can get for a lot of stuff with the minis prices, I still say it's overpriced.

Also this is weird, you say it's easier to add an extra step of hacking a mini/classic which I'm pretty sure it's illegal, than using a legal free emulator to run your physical or legal ripped roms?

So let's see... If a person legally rip their games, they set up the hardware, install the software and then just place the cartridge in the slot and press a couple of buttons (as long as they are informed of the memory type/model/chipset the game uses, which is not hard to know), then it's done. The rom is ready and you can use it on an emulator. Now, you say it's easier to just had the steps of hacking your mini console, then connect whatever you have to connect to the mini console and transfer the rom to this new device?
How is it easier? Not to mention you're already doing something illegal .

Also, with the minis you're stuck with games you don't like and you're paying for those too.

I don't see any contradiction on what I said. I would love to have an Amiga or a DOS pc or any other old computer type and have games and software for those. I have a ZX Spectrum on the other side of the world, but I don't have a cassette player that works for it anymore. But I can't afford buying all of those, so I have to resort to roms.
I already said that there are plenty of old gaming systems that have a lot of Abandonware, you can get those for free and you don't need to own a physical copy of them. Spectrum, Amiga, DOS, etc. have a lot of games that the copyright doesn't have a real holder anymore, or that copyright owners declared it abandonware.
So yeah, for those you can just download the roms and play on an emulator for free.

EDIT: This doesn't really relate to this discussion, but it might be interesting for people interested in legal rom access. There is a company that "rents" roms. You can play Atari, Nintendo, and Coleco Games for free, but if you pay a subscription and have access to a wide variety of roms from several other platforms (Sega Genesis, SMS, Nintendo 64, GBA, GB Color, Gameboy, Sega Game Gear, TurboGrafx-16 Games). The thing is that once someone is "renting" a rom, no one else can use that rom. These roms were ripped by the company from real cartridges they own and they only have one rom of each. This is what makes the whole thing legal.
Console Classix

I apologise for calling you a liar, but your way is still more expensive and more of a hassle than the average consumer is willing put up with.

Not to further derail this thread.

But the comments about how quickly bloodlines 2 came together are a bit alarming even to me.

Personaly I always take it as a bad sign when a game want to accomodate the widest possible audience.

I feel this way when this is done from a gameplay perspective. BioShock for example is supposed to be an immersive sim, but it's designed in such a way that a baby could finish it (also see Bethesda's "RPGs") but a game choosing to be a reflection of the time it was created in isn't inherently a bad thing. Now if the game railroads the player's character into having to agree with things that they don't agree with, then we have a problem.

 

[FDO]

I hope I could be of service.

You were, thanks.

I feel this way when this is done from a gameplay perspective. BioShock for example is supposed to be an immersive sim, but it's designed in such a way that a baby could finish it (also see Bethesda's "RPGs") but a game choosing to be a reflection of the time it was created in isn't inherently a bad thing. Now if the game railroads the player's character into having to agree with things that they don't agree with, then we have a problem.

I mostly agree, most games I call great sort of mirror past or present real things in their writting, and the original Bloodlines is one of them despite the sad release it had back then. It's always about the writting, how it is done and how it work with the gameplay, and with the specific game universe.
Inspiration from reality isn't in itself a sign that it will accomodate 'everyone' with the inevitable result of being dumbed down.

Eh a thought just occured to me, maybe, instead of creating a sequel, they should have re-made the original game, only this time by giving it all the time the original lacked to be finished because of Valve?
I don't only mean better engine or bugs fixing here, but incorporating quests which never got past the ideas status, make the main storyline branch more, give more life to existing LA's Kindreds, give the players more meangniful choices and consequences, ect...
I am normally not a big fan of remake or remaster but Bloodlines is a special case in it's way, it never got the real chance it deserved at initial release and it wasn't the devs's fault there.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

Eh a thought just occured to me, maybe, instead of creating a sequel, they should have re-made the original game, only this time by giving it all the time the original lacked to be finished because of Valve?

Huge risk. Eventually someone will find a nitpick like the length and thickness of one of LaCroix's pubes not being right and yell "Boycottttt!!!!!!!!1! >: (((" on that.

I'm very interested how much of Seattle Underground we'll be seeing. Tremendous potential in gameplay for Nosferatus. Maybe we'll even have some feral type Nos attacking non-Nos players.

 

[FearMonkey]

Unfortunately Nosferatus haven't even been confirmed as playable clans yet. Though obviously they should be since they're one of the most popular clans. I mean, they're my favorite clan. We'll see.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

Unfortunately Nosferatus haven't even been confirmed as playable clans yet. Though obviously they should be since they're one of the most popular clans. I mean, they're my favorite clan. We'll see.

I would think the devs know that an omission of any one of the clans would immediately pose a risk they're smart enough to market this thing as an everything for everyone kind of game.

 

[Alphons]

Apparently Mitsoda's tweet was misleading and the game comes out in Q1. Here's a tweet from Paradox product manager.

 

[Risewild]

I would think the devs know that an omission of any one of the clans would immediately pose a risk they're smart enough to market this thing as an everything for everyone kind of game.

I wonder. I just read an article where this was said:

Paradox will have more information on the clans closer to the release date, but it did mention that more clans will be added to Bloodlines 2 after the game is released. What clans will make a first appearance is anyone’s guess.

I remember seeing the bonus of buying the most expensive version of the pre-order (Premium Edition: Blood Moon) would include 2 Story Packs and 1 Expansion. I wonder if these story packs will be the ones bringing more clans, and if so, they will not be free.

Which is another thing that worries me, blocking clans behind a paywall.

 

[FDO]

my magical guts will know what to do when I come across it on GOG store. If it is released on GOG that is.

Typical, I didn't even check before posting this, and I just stumbled on it without looking:
https://www.gog.com/game/vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines_2

Well my magical guts still need it to be release before deciding if it's worth it, but at least if it is I will be able to buy it.
It's in at least a year though. Given how it is spoke of, I thought the development ending was for sooner.
So we really don't know anything if vague impressions? A year can be very long for development process. I don't like the 'become the ultimate vampire' publicity hook, nor the 'few fan favorite characters returning' but it's not enough to give me any clear idea yet.
(Aside that all this Bloodlines talk make me want to pull back good old SDK and my now long on going modding files to finish a mod I went far with but was never able to get to it's end.)

Edit: my bad again, didn't pay attention to the various pre order editions and possible post release DLC content being sold separetly... No, the game will have to do a lot better than even the original for me to buy it right away in these conditions.