Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines

[Sander]

"Great roleplaying-wise"? Frankly, playing Bloodlines, I feel like wearing a straightjacket. Hardly any character customization (you can only more or less choose from a bunch of pre-made characters. no visual customization at all aside from clan and gender choice - a must in a strongly visual game such as this), super-small, non-interactive game world, laughable inventory, NPCs you cannot interact with, other NPCs forcing you into dialogues where no answer even closely fits the character I would like to play.
Damnit, I felt less restricted when I played the linear fps that is HL2! (I know this isn't true, but it felt that way to me)

Hah. Have you been playing this game at all? This game is one of the few gems out there that allows you to play your character as you want it, you just need the statistics (they are done well, by the way), consider the fact that I've been able to persuade and charm everything in sight. The same thing can be done with intimidate, the fact that they went through the trouble of integrating a nosferatu PC, and the crazy text options for Malkavians shows a lot. If anything, this is a roleplaying game. The only problem I have with that is the problem with the main storyline: it's the only part in the game where I'm restricted, but it's a very important part.

"beautifully done 3d world"? Err, what? I could agree on "great variety of individual NPC skins and models", but beyond that, where's the beauty? Agreed, I have not seen all locations, yet, but one should expect the first ones to be dones especially carfully. But what I've seen so far are thoroughly sterile level with empty rooms, textures of mixed quality, very odd animation and really bad cut scenes.
And no, I'm no big graphics junkie - I thought Wiz8 was looking great when it came out, and I think Fallout looks good even by today's standards. The problem here is different. You see, a game can only look as good as its engine allows it to. That's fine, as long as everything fits together well. However, a game can look much worse than it's engine allows it to. That's a sin - moreso if the result looks incomplete. Quite obviously, Troika either didn't have the artistic talent or wasn't afforded the time/resources needed to polish this game as much as the engine evidently would allow. If they had realized that early on, they might have adapted to that, for example by adapting a more distant 3rd person camera (isometric-style) that would hid many of the flaws I mentioned and at the same time allow for more (low-poly) objects to fill the world with. Apparently, they didn't, or couldn't.

Graphically speaking this is one of the better games out there, full stop. I was talking more about the face renderings and such, though.

"good combat system"? C'mon, it's twitch action - I wouldn't call that a 'combat system' any more than the player-game world interaction in Pac Man. AI is ridiculous. Sure, it's fun most of the time, but and there might even be some tactical depth (when do I use my disciplines? close combat or ranged? oh, I forget that ranged is pretty useless), but not much. Still, no problem for me if there wasn't my next gripe.

Ranged isn't useless, you just need to put experience into it. I strongly disagree, and I can know, because I have played through the game: combat can be done very well, disciplines used tactically, you just need to put in the effort for it.

"everything feels fluid"? Such as? Certainly not the animations, which look twisted and choppy. Combat? Well, kind of, until you try to do some melee combos (yes, combos) against multiple enemies. The interface? Equipping/inventory managment is a pain, and may I mention the dialogue in xbox-friendly(tm) font where you have to fumble for the right number key to choose answer number 3 - no mice here...
Of course, movement is rather fluid (as long as your system is up to it, that is - for some mysterious reason, this game runs a lot worse on my rig than HL2 did), but that's not really an accomplishment when using a 3rd party 3D engine, is it?

I haven't had any of the problems you mention here. Get a better or different rig is probably your fix.
Inventory management could've been done a bit better though, but you won't be using it much anyway.

"The atmosphere of the game is dark, gritty, and darkly humorous at times"? Well, I hope so. Unfortunately, my woes with other parts of this game so far have successfully prevented any kind of atmosphere from materializing. Certainly, the sound problems I experience have not made this any easier, too.

Sound problems: disable high-quality sound. The game does seem to have a couple of bugs, one that almost cost me my game, until I found a fix for it on the 'net.

 

[Moorkh]

As I have said, I have only played the game for 5 or so hours. Do I think this is a bad game? By no means! I'm just too fed up with my disappoinment at where it fell short of my expectations and at a few very obvious flaws (requiring number keys for dialogue just killed me - I thought the game had crashed when neither the mouse nor the arrow keys I play the rest of this game with would allow me to choose an answer! Took me about a minute to find out how to progress and another minute to overcome my shock at the sheer impossibility of this design decision ) to be firing up the game anytime soon, and maybe this helps setting fellow players' expectations down a notch or two so that they may enjoy the game all the better without the frustration I feel right now.

Thanks for the advice on my sound issues, BTW - will try to remember that

 

[SuAside]

Would any of you know where I can buy some new clothes or armor? I'm already up to Hollywood, and I hear new armor can be purchased in each zone, but I can't find the seller anywhere Downtown or in Hollywood.

each area has one or two salesmen. you just need to find them & sometimes persuade them to sell you the good stuff

i shall say no more

Also, I'm on the Santa Monica quest to find the Asian vampire, I'm supposed to check the morgue, but I have no idea where it is in the hospital or how to get in.

look around better, it's obvious...

if all else fails, boost your inspection skill & i'm sure the right thing will light up to show you the way.

----------------

now for more serious matters... gonna backup Sander a bit here

no visual customization at all aside from clan and gender choice - a must in a strongly visual game such as this)

male/female
a whole bunch of clans
4 types of clothing (actually 5, but that fifth doesnt really matter)

enough for me, really... all clothing fits their clan very well in my opinion.

it's quite obvious you wont find a Gangrel in a three piece suit...

super-small game world

4 districts full of side quests. not to mention specific locations related to quests (outside these districts). hell, almost every building has at least one quest... it is not because you can't see a door through which you can enter that there isn't a way in

non-interactive game world

yes, it kinda bothered me too that you can't blow out a lock with a shotgun or that you cant even break a bottle by shooting it. however this is not really the point now is it? this is an pseudo-FP RPG. you are already granted a lot more interaction in this world than in most RPGs

laughable inventory

yes maybe a bit weird, but no problem at all to use it... to me everything was bloody obvious...

the only thing i miss is a quickswitch between weapons. (even if it would be just a quick switch from gun to bare handed)

NPCs you cannot interact with

in other RPGs you'd get flooded with stupid generic responses which didn't change a thing. now you can easily identify the characters which you can widely interact with. i really don't miss those generic responses...

other NPCs forcing you into dialogues where no answer even closely fits the character I would like to play.

well, that is somewhat unevitable. the troika team is good, but to code an AI that replies in speach to any question you would want to ask, nope they cant do that yet...

But what I've seen so far are thoroughly sterile level with empty rooms

hehe, many rooms are not as sterile and empty as one might suspect

You see, a game can only look as good as its engine allows it to. That's fine, as long as everything fits together well. However, a game can look much worse than it's engine allows it to. That's a sin - moreso if the result looks incomplete.

you just played HL2.

a game that has had HUGE financial backing, shitload of talented employés and virtually no deadlines...

yes, it is the same engine, but are you aware how much time & money goes into the 'fine tuning' of such a big & diverse world?

for example by adapting a more distant 3rd person camera (isometric-style) that would hid many of the flaws I mentioned and at the same time allow for more (low-poly) objects to fill the world with. Apparently, they didn't, or couldn't.

why? because it would obviously break the entire concept of the game...

iso camera... sjeez man, what are you on?

(don't get me wrong, i'm all for iso in FO3, but nfw it would work for V:tM-B)

C'mon, it's twitch action - I wouldn't call that a 'combat system' any more than the player-game world interaction in Pac Man.

needs some getting used to, but once it is mastered the gameplay is not just twitch action. yes, even the melees. timing & disciplines become crucial.

oh, I forget that ranged is pretty useless

are you dumb or did you just write this after playing 1 hour?

invest in the right skills, wait until you get past the .38, pumpaction shotty & mac10. then come back & say that again...

"everything feels fluid"? Such as? Certainly not the animations, which look twisted and choppy. Combat? Well, kind of, until you try to do some melee combos (yes, combos) against multiple enemies.

euhm, you might wanna scale down your options then. everything is just fucking sweet overhere...

The interface? Equipping/inventory managment is a pain

like i said above, i'd like to see a quick switch option myself, however, something tells me this wasn't implemented on purpose.

and may I mention the dialogue in xbox-friendly(tm) font where you have to fumble for the right number key to choose answer number 3. requiring number keys for dialogue just killed me - I thought the game had crashed when neither the mouse nor the arrow keys I play the rest of this game with would allow me to choose an answer! Took me about a minute to find out how to progress and another minute to overcome my shock at the sheer impossibility of this design decision

actually, i prefer it this way (& i hate consoles btw). most hardcore RPG players i know do it this way.

i played through FO1, FO2, arcanum, and so on, just by using the numberkeys in dialogs? is a lot easier and quicker than using a mouse...

"The atmosphere of the game is dark, gritty, and darkly humorous at times"? Well, I hope so.

well, i found it really to be just that. dark & gritty when it has to be. darkly humorous if you make the right choices. just plain silly when you take the easter eggs into account...

i was worried that the easter eggs would be too much, but it seems troika found a nice balance.

 

[Moorkh]

Of course I was being a bit harsh back there - that is kinda the point of a frustrated rant, isn't it?

no visual customization at all aside from clan and gender choice - a must in a strongly visual game such as this)

male/female
a whole bunch of clans
4 types of clothing (actually 5, but that fifth doesnt really matter)

enough for me, really... all clothing fits their clan very well in my opinion.

it's quite obvious you wont find a Gangrel in a three piece suit...

Ah, but I might not want to play 'the elf' or 'the mutant' - choosing a vampire 'race' (thus in effect determining how you want to play the game) and your gender, you are handed one single character model that's really a silly stereotype the devs have associated with that clan. Sure, that offers a lot of variety, but no customization.

I know I'm spoiled but have a look at other games to see what can be done in this regard.

I don't know about you, but I'd find it possibly a lot more interesting to play a gangrel dandy in a suit

super-small game world

4 districts full of side quests. not to mention specific locations related to quests (outside these districts). hell, almost every building has at least one quest... it is not because you can't see a door through which you can enter that there isn't a way in

Ok, I take that back - but the world just seems awfully enclosed. I can see how that's a design issue that wasn't avoidable - I don't think I would have wanted them to recreate all of LA as they did in that console game.

non-interactive game world

yes, it kinda bothered me too that you can't blow out a lock with a shotgun or that you cant even break a bottle by shooting it. however this is not really the point now is it? this is an pseudo-FP RPG. you are already granted a lot more interaction in this world than in most RPGs

Err... how so? The few times I recall an interaction option, there was a big icon on the screen screaming at me "interact here and like this!". Sure, that's interaction, but it doesn't make the world feel interactive to me if it's so ...mandatory. Straightjacket, again.

NPCs you cannot interact with

in other RPGs you'd get flooded with stupid generic responses which didn't change a thing. now you can easily identify the characters which you can widely interact with. i really don't miss those generic responses...

I call it flavour. Taking your argument, you could as well remove them altogether, or place a bright red arrow pointing at those who will dialogue with you.

other NPCs forcing you into dialogues where no answer even closely fits the character I would like to play.

well, that is somewhat unevitable. the troika team is good, but to code an AI that replies in speach to any question you would want to ask, nope they cant do that yet...

C'mon, you know exactly that I didn't expect anything like that. But when the first NPC you meet at after the tutorial - an insignficant non-plot critical ghoul - force-talks you and you cannot just cut him off but need to ask him a question before you're able to move on, it's a step back from Fallouty dialogue goodness. That's certainly not often the case, but when it happens and I have to choose an ooC answer, I'm mightily annoyed.

But what I've seen so far are thoroughly sterile level with empty rooms

hehe, many rooms are not as sterile and empty as one might suspect

Again, then I might not have progressed enough to find out - I'm looking forward to see all the empty rooms filled with exciting stuff later on, then

You see, a game can only look as good as its engine allows it to. That's fine, as long as everything fits together well. However, a game can look much worse than it's engine allows it to. That's a sin - moreso if the result looks incomplete.

you just played HL2.

a game that has had HUGE financial backing, shitload of talented employés and virtually no deadlines...

yes, it is the same engine, but are you aware how much time & money goes into the 'fine tuning' of such a big & diverse world?

for example by adapting a more distant 3rd person camera (isometric-style) that would hid many of the flaws I mentioned and at the same time allow for more (low-poly) objects to fill the world with. Apparently, they didn't, or couldn't.

why? because it would obviously break the entire concept of the game...

iso camera... sjeez man, what are you on?

(don't get me wrong, i'm all for iso in FO3, but nfw it would work for V:tM-B)

I didn't expect them to be able to do what Valve did - but looking at Bloodlines, I can't help to feel that Troika at some moment during their dev cycle thought they could. They have fantastic 10k poly NPCs (including 'jigglyness') but then they didn't have the resources left to give them decent animations and not enough cpu power to give the rooms some more object detail. Things like that (and there were more) make the whole thing feel uneven, if you see what I mean, and thus no better than the worst individual element.

C'mon, it's twitch action - I wouldn't call that a 'combat system' any more than the player-game world interaction in Pac Man.

needs some getting used to, but once it is mastered the gameplay is not just twitch action. yes, even the melees. timing & disciplines become crucial.

Maybe I'm just not a very talented action gamer, but I find it very hard to switch weapons during even a slightly difficult fight in any FPS. I simply can't concentrate on more things than shooting and moving at the same time. RPGs usually give me a little more time to make tactical decisions, and I tend to enjoy that. Well-timed disciplines are not really for me, but then, that hasn't been a problem during the few hours into the game that I fought. Still, I observed myself resorting to my FPS tactic (and the reason I took more than 40h to complete HL2 ) - save often and reload after any fight that didn't go so well until I get out of it as unscathed as possible.
So much about twitch action.

oh, I forget that ranged is pretty useless

are you dumb or did you just write this after playing 1 hour?

invest in the right skills, wait until you get past the .38, pumpaction shotty & mac10. then come back & say that again...

Hmm... I guess that might. You see, after 5 hours, I have not been into many fights. Still, I did have some skill at firearms and none at melee yet still melee proved the only way to go in my first encounters. So they did not implement that VTM rule that firearms only deal bashing damage to supernaturals such as vampires?

"everything feels fluid"? Such as? Certainly not the animations, which look twisted and choppy. Combat? Well, kind of, until you try to do some melee combos (yes, combos) against multiple enemies.

euhm, you might wanna scale down your options then. everything is just fucking sweet overhere...

Sure? No weird animations on other ppl's screens?

The interface? Equipping/inventory managment is a pain

like i said above, i'd like to see a quick switch option myself, however, something tells me this wasn't implemented on purpose.

and may I mention the dialogue in xbox-friendly(tm) font where you have to fumble for the right number key to choose answer number 3. requiring number keys for dialogue just killed me - I thought the game had crashed when neither the mouse nor the arrow keys I play the rest of this game with would allow me to choose an answer! Took me about a minute to find out how to progress and another minute to overcome my shock at the sheer impossibility of this design decision

actually, i prefer it this way (& i hate consoles btw). most hardcore RPG players i know do it this way.

i played through FO1, FO2, arcanum, and so on, just by using the numberkeys in dialogs? is a lot easier and quicker than using a mouse...

Heh - I must admit I resorted to that when repeatedly doing dialogues in some of these games. But the first time I play them, I like to sit back in the darkness of my room and enjoy the dialogue. Sitting up to find a key kinda destroys that. Why no cursor, no arrow keys?

Again this is no bad game, but to me, it's even more annoying than it is good.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Has anyone encountered a bug that's keeping me away from playing the best RPG of the year?
When I launch the game the screen turns black. Monitor doesn's go in stand by regime, only the diode keeps flickering. If I alt-tab during starting sequences I can see the intro movies, but it turns dark again when game enters the menu screen.
Has anybody experienced anything like this and what can be done?

EDIT:
Solved the problem. Must force the game to run at 60hz monitor refreshrate frequency.
And now, lets suck some blood.

 

[SuAside]

Ah, but I might not want to play 'the elf' or 'the mutant' - choosing a vampire 'race' (thus in effect determining how you want to play the game) and your gender, you are handed one single character model that's really a silly stereotype the devs have associated with that clan. Sure, that offers a lot of variety, but no customization.

I know I'm spoiled but have a look at other games to see what can be done in this regard.

I don't know about you, but I'd find it possibly a lot more interesting to play a gangrel dandy in a suit

i can see where you're coming from dude, but this game was never intended to be all about freedom. hell, we are rather lucky to be able to choose a clan at all since the character ingame didnt really have a choice

if this game had been advertised as some uber RPG with loads of freedom, hell yeah, i'd be pissed too. but this is a linear adventure.

Err... how so? The few times I recall an interaction option, there was a big icon on the screen screaming at me "interact here and like this!". Sure, that's interaction, but it doesn't make the world feel interactive to me if it's so ...mandatory. Straightjacket, again.

it's just that i'm saying that in a game like FO, the interaction with the scenery was little more than blowing some shit up. thats about it. it isn't that much a requirement to have fun. only very little games allow real interactivity with the scenery.

Taking your argument, you could as well remove them [inactive NPCs] altogether, or place a bright red arrow pointing at those who will dialogue with you.

no, but i dont know... it really doesnt bother me that you cant talk to john & jane doe in the streets. still loads of NPCs that can chat with you regardless...

Again, then I might not have progressed enough to find out - I'm looking forward to see all the empty rooms filled with exciting stuff later on, then

well, i gotta say i wasnt expecting much when i played through it again with a high perception char, but it did enlighten me a bit

Maybe I'm just not a very talented action gamer, but I find it very hard to switch weapons during even a slightly difficult fight in any FPS. I simply can't concentrate on more things than shooting and moving at the same time. RPGs usually give me a little more time to make tactical decisions, and I tend to enjoy that. Well-timed disciplines are not really for me, but then, that hasn't been a problem during the few hours into the game that I fought. Still, I observed myself resorting to my FPS tactic (and the reason I took more than 40h to complete HL2 Wink ) - save often and reload after any fight that didn't go so well until I get out of it as unscathed as possible.
So much about twitch action.

well, since your character automatically heals over time that shouldnt be such a problem, now should it?

So they did not implement that VTM rule that firearms only deal bashing damage to supernaturals such as vampires?

you can kill vamps with guns. it's all stated in the descriptions, you know... the 'lethality'-statistic it's called i believe.

 

[Radial]

each area has one or two salesmen. you just need to find them & sometimes persuade them to sell you the good stuff

i shall say no more

Meh. I've been looking around so long it's not fun any more, and I really don't want to miss what the heavy clothes and light leather look like. I've looked through all the streets, alleys, and sewers of Downtown, and still nothing. I'll just console code them in, I suppose.

 

[Moorkh]

Good news - since The Fall is such an evil performance hog I had to take a break from its choppiness, so I checked out the Bloodlines community some more. Now there is a way to switch your character model to that of pretty much anyone else in the game, including the other clan PC models.

http://bloodlines.dilapidation.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1442

Going to check this out now. If this works out, along with the money .3 cheat to make things a little more bearable on female backs, I might give this game another try sooner than I had planned

 

[SuAside]

Meh. I've been looking around so long it's not fun any more, and I really don't want to miss what the heavy clothes and light leather look like. I've looked through all the streets, alleys, and sewers of Downtown, and still nothing. I'll just console code them in, I suppose.

pm underway

 

[PsychoSniper]

How do you turn blood sheild off ?

I used it in a fight, but now that Im done its still on.

Ive traveld from the fight scene back to the sewers, and its still on. I left the sewer for a moment and it still stayed on.

Needless to say, I dont want to incur a masquerade violation.

 

[SuAside]

press F8 ...

(or at least that is the default)

 

[PsychoSniper]

Ah, thanks. Now why didnt I think of that...........
I wount up saying screw it and surfaced (accepting the masquerade violation) and wiped the town out. Wasnt until I enterd a nopowers zone that it shut off.

Good thing I saved before doing that. Not only so I could start where I was stuck, but cause it crashed shortly thereafter.................



Damn the patch needs to come soon.

 

[Calabi-Yau]

This is a great game, indeed. I didn't really expect anything else from Troika, but I still wasn't that interested in this game first because of the FPS style combat. After playing it however, I must say it's pretty damn amazing. The game world felt a bit small first as Moorkh said, but after playing it for a while, I realized that it's still packed with tons of things to do and find. It's a really nice feeling strolling around and exploring the different buildings in search for the refreshingly interesting side quests. And man, does this game have atmosphere? The main plot seems really cool so far as well, anthough I haven't played that far. The combat still bothers me though. I'm not very fond of real time action in RPGs. It still works much better than, say Morrowind, for example.

Play this game, especially if you're into The World of Darkness.

 

[PsychoSniper]

Im proably gona shelf it until a patch, Im pissed that whenever I do something right and move foward, it crashes.

 

[Calabi-Yau]

That does sound disturbing PsychoSniper, luckily I haven't exprienced that. Are you sure it's not a driver issue or something?

 

[PsychoSniper]

Yup, Im reasonably sure considering my PCs less than a month old and has brand new drivers (it better have, I spent 10 hrs on 56k DLing all updated ones to replace the stock ones.)

 

[Calabi-Yau]

Ok, probably shouldn't be that then. If you have DX9c I guess it's quite certainly the game that's buggy. I wonder how they solve it if it's Source that's bugged?

 

[Tannhauser]

Err... I wouldn't write it off to the game right away, there might be any number of problems with your computer. Play around with the settings, seek technical help on the more official forums, try to solve the problem on your own.

Anyway, now a screenshot. Option two, option two!

 

[Briosafreak]

BEST BUG EVER!!!!!


http://firingsquad.com/forums/jakub/titsgalore.jpg

 

[Calabi-Yau]

Err... I wouldn't write it off to the game right away, there might be any number of problems with your computer. Play around with the settings, seek technical help on the more official forums, try to solve the problem on your own.

True that. Although some problems can even be hard to define. Might be small incompabilities between software and hardware etc. And yeah, seeking technical help is probably a good idea. Try Activision's tech support site. They've actually helped me out one time.