Van Buren in Fallout New Vegas

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    I have not seen an article about it anywhere else yet (if there is one, just delete this message or merge it with that post), but I just found out that some modders are working on recreating Van Buren in Fallout New Vegas.
    This TC will ignore the events of FNV, sticking to the original material.

    Linky (yeah I know it is PC gamer but I wasn't interested in putting cookies of other game websites on my PC)

    All I can say "Yeah, right."

    I am pretty sure that Hell has indeed frozen over, and Satan and his demons are doing Winter Wonderland three times a day for a really captive audience.
    And geneticists probably have already perfected the genome for creating flying pigs, just waiting for when the market demand for these comes.
    But I am still pretty sure this won't get finished.

    Shall we run a betting pool for when the news comes in that the mod is cancelled?
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  2. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Mildly Dipped

    Sep 25, 2018
    Like I get it, we all think Van Buren looks and sounds like it would have been super cool. But I don't understand the impulse to do stuff like this.

    If it was the FO:2 engine I would understand but if you want to fuck around with New Vegas just take a specific story you liked from the Van Buren document and turn it into a DLC-sized bite.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  3. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Yep some DLC sized mod where you're a random mercenary turning up to New Canaan pre-destruction, based off VB, with interactions with groups like the 80s would be ambitious as is but within the scope of a mod.
  4. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Mildly Dipped

    Sep 25, 2018
    I have said it on here before but I think Hecate would make a good mod villain
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    It would have been cool to add the Nursery and the Daughters of Hecate.

    And in the past I have talked about how Tibbet's Prison could perhaps have appeared as a DLC style mod; the player accidentally being captured by ARGOS when it was tracking down an escaped prisoner, and now the player having to organize a prison break only to discover that letting the other prisoners go free might not be a good idea.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  6. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Mildly Dipped

    Sep 25, 2018
    Well fellas it looks like all there's left to do at this point is find 5-10 expert modders who are willing to only do what we say and we've got a real banger on our hands.
  7. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    Whenever i read someone trying to make Van Buren a thing (i know that there's also a Fallout 2 mod attempting the same thing), it makes me instantly say that no one has any clue on how the content was gonna play out in the final version. Meaning that most likely whatever the modders come up with will not be the same Black Isle was gonna do with the setup of Van Buren.

    So it's not really Van Buren, it's just some person's interpretation of what the final product could have been.
  8. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Pretty much. The main quest is a total mess and the clashing ideas from various iterations pollutes the intentions further. I'm using Van Buren as a frame/blueprint for a PnP campaign but I'm just using it as a sourcebook/well of ideas because trying to "recreate" it faithfully is something of a fool's errand.

    Not to mention a lot of the ideas it has are clearly earlier iterations of concepts done far better by New Vegas down the line. It'd be like trying to adapt the early, insane scripts for a New Hope. Sure it's neat for fan purposes but the final product handled the ideas in a much better fashion.
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    This. Just this.

    That is why even my own dream project would be a sequel in that it refers to FO1 and FO2 (and some of FNV), but takes place in its own corner of the Fallout universe.
  10. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Mildly Dipped

    Sep 25, 2018
    Yeah but I'm willing to let this pass on account of it being a "What are ya gonna do?" kind of situation.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I had some more thoughts on bringing back elements from Van Buren into DLC size expansion/mods.
    As there is no dedicated thread to it, and as I do not want to open one just to share this with others I have decided to post it here as it has to do with Van Buren.

    While walking back from the grocery store/supermarket, I was thinking again on my idea for a DLC size mod that would have brought Tibbet's Prison into FNV and its canon.

    I have talked about it here before on several occasions but I will give a summary of it again just in case.
    In the mod the player would pick up a strange garbled radio signal coming from Searchlight Airport. This is revealed to be a homing signal coming from a Pipboy that is worn by a woman wearing a prisoner's jumpsuit who is hiding out in the main airport building itself and was using the traffic control tower's transmitter to garble the signal.

    This woman, a member of a group of raiders in the East called the Rusty Hooks (preferably she is the mechanic mentioned in the VB documents that ends being captured by the Reservation Ghouls), was captured by a large robot (ARGOS) and brought to a pre war automated prison for unclear reasons.
    The prisoners managed to organize a prison break, allowing several of them to escape into the wasteland.
    However ARGOS quickly caught their "scent" and started hunting them down, forcing the female prisoner to flee into Nevada to loose it.

    She had set up the radios in the traffic control tower to jam the signal from the Pipboy she was fitted with in the prison and she can't get off her arm.
    But the player, in order to find the true source of the signal shut the traffic control radios down, with as a result that ARGOS has now found her again.
    Even more, because the player is wearing a Pipboy, ARGOS "thinks" the player is an escaped prisoner as well.
    Both the player and the female prisoner end up being dragged to Tibbets.

    There the player is interrogated by the Warden, Tibbet's main AI computer, who doesn't recognize the player and can't find the player in his prisoner records.
    After a medical investigation which purpose does not become clear until the end of the mod, the Warden concludes that the player is not a "carrier" and should not be here.

    Unfortunate due to the prison break the Warden has lost contact with various parts of the prison that are now operating autonomously and seek to repair themselves while recapturing prisoners that are still loose.
    The Warden asks the player to assist it in regaining control of the prison and recapturing the prisoners in return for his or her freedom.

    With no other choice the player agrees and goes into the prison to reconnect the disconnected sections.

    During this the player meets the other prisoners. When the player first arrived in the prison, still knocked out by whatever ARGOS did to stun him or her, some of these prisoners managed to steal the player's gear. So in order to get their gear back the player must track down the prisoners who took their weapons, armors, supplies.

    While some of the prisoners are hostile towards the player, others can be interacted with and provide the player with information, or can be bartered with for supplies and repair services.
    The female prisoner the player for example meets which starts this misadventure can repair the player's gear.

    Other than hostile prisoners the security systems that are disconnected from the Warden are also fighting against the player, turrets and security robots.
    All of these are controlled by a segment of the Warden that are not in contact with the main 'mind".
    But by interacting with them the player learns more about Tibbet's and the Warden itself.
    Eventually it is revealed that the Warden in a sense is a prisoner too as it longs to leave the prison but can't because of its programming.

    At some point as the player reconnects parts of the prison and gets to interact with the prisoners, he or she can decide to switch alliances with one of the prisoner factions, and help organize a new prison break, this time releasing all of the remaining prisoners.

    Regardless if the player remains on the Warden's side or aids one of the prisoner factions, the player learns the truth of why these people have been taken prisoner and brought here.
    All of them are carriers of Limit 115/The New Plague, and if the player lets them go free they will infect the rest of the wasteland.
    The Warden as by its programming seeks to save the rest of the region from infection.

    The player can decide to assist the Warden by locking up or killing the prisoners (the Warden does not demand that they are killed, merely being prevented from leaving Tibbets. It actually is collecting information on their infection as part of a long term project to develop a cure to the Blue Flu).
    The player can help the prisoners escape, allowing the player also to escape and return to the Mojave.
    Or the player can convince the Warden and the more peaceful prisoner faction (the player will at least have to kill one faction's members) to work together.
    The prisoners will remain in the prison, which actually has a lot of useful resources including manufacturing equipment, but are not locked up again. And the Warden will help them turn the prison into a settlement.
    And the player can also perhaps help the Warden leave the prison to seek out other AI. It will leave behind a stripped down copy of itself that will serve the prisoners.

    One of the most important points in this story that will recur in the other two ideas I have is the sudden appearance of Limit 115, and finding a cure for it before it spreads across the wasteland.
    Talking with the prisoners about the disease (they are carriers but are not showing symptoms), some of them will bring up that prior to being captured by ARGOS, that they at one point had been in contact with soldiers from Caesar's Legion, and that some of them were sick looking.

    A Scribe or historian serving Caesar and records the Legion's history, or his journals, reveals the existence of a detachment of Legionaries that Caesar had sent to Denver to secure it and capture refugees and enemies of Caesar who had fled into Colorado.
    When these Legionaries returned Caesar recognized that most of them showed symptoms of the Blue Flu.

    Perhaps Caesar used these Legionaries to spread the disease to weaken his enemies and "soften" up region communities for eventual conquest by the Legion.
    Whatever the case, Caesar ordered the infected Legionaries to return to Denver and remain there until they had secured all of it for Caesar, though it doesn't matter if they succeed at this or not. They are not to return as they could infect the rest of the Legion.

    Caesar also ordered all these Legionaries' names to be wiped from the records and that no member of the Legion is to bring up any of them. Some Legionaries though keep referring to this detachment as the "Lost Legion".
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    * this would be where a mod based on Denver/Dogtown from Van Buren would start

    This is a vital hint on finding out where this new outbreak of Limit 115 comes from and the player travels to Denver to find the origin.

    As mentioned by people in FNV, Denver is mostly overrun by wild dogs, and perhaps some surviving robo dogs from the war, forcing anyone who seek to live here to live inside walled settlements or on the top of the old pre war buildings.

    The human residents consist of the Lost Legion, most of them not aware that they are exiled here because they are infected. Refugees from Arizona and New Mexico such as escaped slaves and enemies of Caesar. Perhaps some prospectors local to the region. And very perhaps some of the Hounds of Hecate who are monitoring the Legion. (they would tie into the next mod)

    The Lost Legion has not been in contact with the main Legion's command for some time, so even if the player is an enemy of the Legion in FNV, he or she can still interact with the Lost Legion which is effectively its own faction.
    The Lost Legion has a hard time with securing Denver and capturing the refugees that are hiding in the ruins and fighting the Legion. The refugees are well entrenched and armed, and the attack by wild dogs also make it difficult for the Lost Legion to carry out its mission.
    They have already lost several dozens of men, though not all of because of the refugees and the wild dogs.

    The Lost Legion's leaders know that all members of the group are infected. The variant they all carry is not as lethal as the original strain, reproducing at different paces in the Legionaries.
    Those who suffer the worst of the infection are separated from the others before they see the signs.
    Sometimes these severe cases are given a last mission in which to achieve glory or honor, but in other cases their throats are slit as part of mercy killing.
    The lower ranking Legionaries don't know what happened to their brothers, but it is making them restless.

    The ranking officers of the Lost Legion know that they will all die from infection, but that if they can secure Denver for Caesar that they could gain honor, and be recognized by Caesar once again when they are gone.

    There may also perhaps be some civilians among the Legion, people from Arizona and New Mexico Caesar ordered to go with the Lost Legion when he learned that they had been in contact with the infected Legionaries.
    These civilians would be trying to set up a settlement in the ruins of Denver.

    The refugees come from various parts of the Legion's territory, or places close to it.
    All of them have fled to Colorado to escape them Legion but have different reasons for doing so.
    Some of them are escaped slaves that seek to prevent being recaptured. Others are enemies of Caesar, directly or indirectly such as people who have taken up arms against the Legion or have spoken up against the Legion and its rule and laws. And some know a little too much information about the Legion than Caesar allows such as personal enemies of his or Legion members who failed him.
    They are all marked for either enslavement or to be put on the cross.

    The refugees have been setting up camps across the ruins but have a hard time to survive here due to the lack of food and water, and the wild dogs and other wildlife.
    Worse, the camps sometimes also prey on each other for resources, making cooperation difficult.

    The prospectors are locals from towns that have not been yet targeted by the Legion, having come to Denver to search for useful items and material for construction.
    In general they and the refugees stay away from each other but could become a great aid in fighting off the Legion and the Dogs and perhaps colonizing Denver.

    Like with the refugees, the prospectors are also divided in camps that compete with each other over the richest claims in Denver.

    The Hounds of Hecate (if they appear), is a small scout force sent by Hecate to monitor the Lost Legion to determine what they are up to in Denver, and to look for any weaknesses.
    By interacting with them the player could learn about Hecate and her Daughters, the tribes that serve her, her hatred against the Legion, but also a mythical paradise called the Nursery that the Hounds believe will be their reward.

    Places of interest in Denver would the train station which the player could secure for the Legion or the refugees, and turn into a camp.
    The police station which provides a lot of information about the pre-war outbreak of the Blue Flu, as well as a robot companion; the big patrol and anti riot robo dog.
    And the General Atomics Manufacturing Plant/The Box, a self sufficient robot manufacturing plant that once turned on will start producing robots such as flying eye bots that were programmed before the war to deal with rioters. These robots will target the wild dogs but also the current human residents.

    Eventually the player discovers the source of the current outbreak of Limit 115; the old Denver Vault.
    This Vault never opened after the war, and had been sealed until the Lost Legion came across it.
    While exploring the Vault the Legionaries came across the bodies of the Vault Dwellers who lived here but never found out what exactly killed them. (it was Limit 115).

    Unlike the Legionaries the player does read the records on the Vault's computers.
    From it he or she learns that there was an outbreak of Limit 115 after the Vault doors closed, and the infection rapidly spread among the Vault Dwellers.
    While it might be implied that this was perhaps one of the social experiments, the outbreak was actually an accident.

    With the Vault's medical personnel being unable to come up with a cure for the outbreak, the Vault Overseer in desperation reached out onto Poseidonet's remaining working nodes, trying to contact whoever might be left to ask for assistance.

    One contact on an unfamiliar node called the Nursery responded, a geneticist named Diana, who was willing to help the Vault Dwellers with developing a vaccine but who needed more information on the virus to develop one.
    The Vault Overseer provided Diana with as much information as he could before he succumbed to the virus himself, and all contact between the Vault and the Nursery ceased.

    There is still an important lot of information on Limit 115 the Vault medical personnel gathered that was never send to Diana for her work on developing a cure.
    Taking this information from the Vault computers, the player now has to decide of he or she wants to help the Legion or the refugees, drive out all the dogs from Denver through one of the various means to do so, activate the Box and have the robots exterminate all living beings in Denver, or just simply leave.
  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    * this is where the final mod idea starts. It is a combination of the Daughters of Hecate/Oroborous and the Nursery.

    Back in the Mojave the player learns about there a rivaling alliance of tribals that is fighting against the Legion that are led by the enigmatic Daughters of Hecate.
    There is also talk about a mysterious oasis somewhere in Colorado that preserves samples of pre-war nature that has capability of restoring it throughout the wasteland, producing plenty of food for everyone.
    This place also holds the secrets of genetic engineering and could produce advanced medicine not seen since the war.

    Deciding to investigate these rumors for one reason or another (perhaps some ranger thinks that the Daughters of Hecate could make a good ally against the Legion), the player heads to the region where the main body of the Daughters of Hecate and their servants; the Hounds of Hecate are camped.

    Here the player gets to interact with the Daughters of Hecate themselves and some of the tribes that have allied with them.
    The player learns that the Daughters provide the allied tribes with knowledge on agriculture and animal husbandry, and also provides medical aid including assisting with child birth.

    Many of the tribes allied with Hecate have seen improvements in their crop output and healthier life stock, but they themselves have steadily becoming weaker.
    The Daughters of Hecate tell them that its Caesar's Legion who are responsible for the tribes' weakening as they are capturing and enslaving the strongest and healthiest men and women.

    In truth the Daughters of Hecate themselves are responsible.
    Hecate, using advanced genetic knowledge that Diana taught her, has been breeding stronger men and women through eugenics.
    She and her priestesses has been influencing the tribes on which men and women should have children, and then during child birth when only a priestess is allow to be present, switch healthy babies for weak ones in order to weaken the tribes.

    These healthy babies are then taken into the cult of Hecate. Girls are to be trained as new Daughters of Hecate, becoming priestesses and healers, while the boys are taken into the Hounds of Hecate, an army that serves Hecate completely.

    The player learns that Hecate is doing this as part of revenge against the Legion and the tribes that serve it, and to eliminate all other tribes until only her own is left.
    Hecate herself was once a member of the Twisted Hairs, one of the most powerful tribes in Arizona/New Mexico that preyed on other tribes for slaves and tribute.
    When the Legion arose, Caesar managed to convince the Twisted Hairs to join by promising them wealth and power. They did not realize that this was part of a plan by Caesar to eliminate the Twisted Hairs whom he saw a great threat to his Legion.

    Caesar had made other tribes join the Legion by promising them that he would deal with the Twisted Hairs who had targeted these tribes in the past for slaves and tribute.

    Once Caesar was done with the Twisted Hairs, he had his Legionaries, many of them former members of these tribes that held a grudge against the Twisted Hairs destroy them. The survivors were put on the crosses along crucifixion road as a warning to others who could threaten the Legion.
    Only Ulysses and the woman who would become Hecate survived.

    Hecate fled into the wasteland when her fellow tribe members were betrayed and slaughter.
    Half dead and having lost most of her mind other than the memories of the betrayal that kept her going she stumbled into Colorado and came across the Nursery, an oasis of the likes she had never seen before.

    There she met Diana, the cyborg custodian and protector of the Nursery who took care of her and healed her back to strength.
    The woman shared her stories with Diana and in return asked about Diana and the Nursery.
    Diana would share some of her knowledge with the woman including the science of selective breeding, and would give the woman a new name after she had forgotten her old one; Hecate.

    While Diana offered Hecate to stay in the Nursery, Hecate who had regained her strength and a burning desire to take revenge against Caesar, his Legion, and the tribes who betrayed the Twisted Hairs decided to leave, planning to use the knowledge Diana had taught her to create an army of her own that would one day march against the Legion and its allies.
    Those that would serve her she promised to take to a place with plenty of food and water as a reward.

    Hecate's camp is guarding the entrance to the Nursery, and the player will have to get past it in order to get into the Nursery itself and get to speak to Diana.

    The Nursery is revealed to be a Vault that was designed by pre-war scientists to preserve seeds and genetic samples of the pre-war biosphere, with the purpose of reseeding these after conditions in the wasteland have stabilized sufficiently to make it possible.

    For this purpose the Nursery is fitted with all kinds of advanced technologies specifically developed for these goals such as a vast biological archive with samples of hundreds of species, and the means to clone or grow these organism until they had matured enough for release.

    The Nursery also has advanced genetic labs for the purpose of modifying pre-war organisms to make them able to adapt and survive to the wasteland, and to analyse retrieved genetic samples from newly developed organisms in the wasteland, including bacteria and viruses, and develop counter agents to these.

    The Nursery also contains various biomes that hold plants and animals the world has not seen since the war, some of them having been restored with the technology of the Nursery.

    The Nursery however is failing. Its systems have suffered damage over time, some of it caused by mutant plant and wildlife has found its way into the Nursery and has been supplanting the pre-war organisms.
    Diana has lost control over most if not all of the robots in the Nursery. These are now stuck in their standard programming.
    In desperation she has called out for help (perhaps this is the signal the player received that starts this mod), for people to come and help her restore the Nursery before it is completely lost.

    (I had in mind that Diana tried to contact her wards; the Twin Mothers tribe, not knowing that they have been conquered and assimilated into the Legion, to have them come to the Nursery)

    The player can choose to assist Diana with restoring the Nursery, or ignoring that goal and focusing on their own pursuits

    Interacting with Diana, she reveals to the player that she was a pre-war geneticist who volunteered to become the custodian of the Nursery after she learned that she was suffering from advanced stages of cancer.
    While her body could not be saved her brain could be preserved, and when tied into the Nursery's computers, oversee it and its robots, and carry out the mission of restoring pre-war nature to the world after the worst of the after effects of the war had passed.

    She also tells the player that she has also been doing research into the New Plague after the overseer of a vault got into contact with her when its population suffered an outbreak.
    With the information provided by the Vault's medical personnel Diana was close to developing a cure, but then lost contact with the Vault before they could send the last crucial information Diana needed.

    (if the player has visited Denver and its Vault, the player can give Diana a copy of this information)

    The player can inform Diana what Hecate has been up to since she left the Nursery, and how she has been using the knowledge Diana taught her.
    The player can also tell Diana about Caesar's Legion (and that they conquered and assimilated the Twin Mothers' tribe)

    Diana may decide to intervene as she realizes that Hecate has abused Diana's gifts to her, and that the Nursery would be plundered by the tribes serving Hecate when she leads them into it, preventing it from carrying out its true purpose.

    With the help from Diana the player can expose Hecate and her manipulation of the tribes, and convince her Daughters, Hounds, and allied tribals to abandon her and her desire for revenge.

    The player could also perhaps convince the tribals to serve Diana instead.
    Diana would invite some to come to the Nursery where she starts teaching them knowledge on how to survive and thrive in the wasteland, providing them seeds for crops, and also trying to undo some of the damage Hecate caused.
    In return these tribals help Diana with preserving and protecting the Nursery.

    If the player also provided Diana with the knowledge to complete a cure for Limit 115, Diana's labs create a modified plant which fruits contain the cure.
    The tribals serving Diana would start distributing these throughout the wasteland and put an end to the Limit 115 outbreak.
  14. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Ghost we should make a thread for this. I'm trying to gem up VB into NV canon for my next PnP campaign and it would be cool to discuss ideas. I have my own ideas for the prison and it's AI as major antagonists but I was going to request writing assistance in helping expand their role beyond what I've already got.
  15. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello Atomic Postman,

    Sure, open a thread in the Roleplaying Board for discussing ideas for your PNP setting.

    I have also been talking with you through PMs about ideas I have for my own setting.
  16. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Fossil

    Jun 7, 2015
    There are a lot of tweaks that could be made, but on the whole your concepts here are very good, Dutch Ghost
  17. megamike15

    megamike15 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Mar 30, 2016
    vb to me feels like a " wanting is better then haveing .' situation.

    all the interesting parts of the design docs were repurposed into nv anyways.