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The problem was that it wasn't very "Post Apocalyptic."

Organized crime (in a land of complete anarchy, mind you) and a porn studio aren't exactly something that would be running around after the end of the world. Or at least not until people are done trying to survive hard enough to indulge in such vices.

Also, who the Hell other than people in NCR are going to be able to watch pornography? Its not like working holoviewers are scattered all over the wasteland.
 
Bradylama said:
The problem was that it wasn't very "Post Apocalyptic."

Organized crime (in a land of complete anarchy, mind you) and a porn studio aren't exactly something that would be running around after the end of the world. Or at least not until people are done trying to survive hard enough to indulge in such vices.

Also, who the Hell other than people in NCR are going to be able to watch pornography? Its not like working holoviewers are scattered all over the wasteland.

Well, It was a bit too organized, and the holoviewer bit is quite dumb, unless maybe the movies could be seen in any monitor, not just holoviewers.

But more important, you've got to keep one thing in mind when it comes to vices: people who face the hardest difficulties in life, are usually the ones that rely the more on drugs, gambling, religion and all of that to escape their daily predicament for awhile.

We get a lot of that here (Brazil), lots of homeless people are addicted to crack, booze, and whatnot, and when they get a little money (by whatever means), instead of eating or buying some cheap clothes, they choose to feed their vices. I guess a phenomenon like that would be very feasible to happen in the wastelands.
 
Well that's just the thing. Druggies are aloud to live because Society allows them to. People that take drugs have the benefit of a capitalist society which provides food on demand (and money) and a factor that takes pity on them, and feeds them, should their habits get the better of them.

Jet addicts shouldn't even survive a few days in Fallout. Wouldn't that be sufficient enough to not take drugs? The miners have the companies to take care of them, but there's nobody to take care of the druggies in New Reno.

If you start to take drugs in the Wasteland, you will die. That's why the prospect of addiction is such a deterrent to using narcotics in the game world. The need to harbor the addiction, and the horrible effects of withdrawal illustrate how difficult it would be for the jet heads to survive.

Then again, Fallout 2 was much more "evolved" in a sense from the situation in Fallout. But that still doesn't mean that Jetheads should be running around wherever you go.

When the Families lose customers, how are they going to survive? They can't.
 
Bradylama said:
Well that's just the thing. Druggies are aloud to live because Society allows them to. People that take drugs have the benefit of a capitalist society which provides food on demand (and money) and a factor that takes pity on them, and feeds them, should their habits get the better of them.

Not Really, specially in poor countries, society does little to help worse off people, specially if they are recognized as addicts. And besides begging, addicts usually have a big "aversion" to making use of the "pity factor", because they fear being treated.

Bradylama said:
Jet addicts shouldn't even survive a few days in Fallout. Wouldn't that be sufficient enough to not take drugs? The miners have the companies to take care of them, but there's nobody to take care of the druggies in New Reno.

If you start to take drugs in the Wasteland, you will die. That's why the prospect of addiction is such a deterrent to using narcotics in the game world. The need to harbor the addiction, and the horrible effects of withdrawal illustrate how difficult it would be for the jet heads to survive.

Isn't Jet just a fancy, politically correct way of using Crack in a game? I mean, it's a very cheap, very addictive, easily accessible, powerful stimulant. And look at the people who are usually crack addicts: It's usually the poor folks, who forego "basic" needs such as Feeding and clothing to indulge in their vice.

And look at some of the most violent countries today: Sierra Leone (Is that spelled correctly?), Somalia, Haiti a few months ago.... These places live in a kind of society that closely resembles what i imagine the wastelands would be outside of the more organized cities: Generalized violence, Effectivelly no Government... And if you look at the Drug use among those people, You'll be sure to find the addiction rates are much higher than in other parts of the world.

I know most of the chaos in Sierra Leone is due to fighting over diamonds, wich is supported by the big capitalist world outside africa, so this would be an impossibilty in Fallout (unless they were fighting for something with a bigger practical utility, like a military base or something). Somalia is a much better example (specially in the late 80's): The fighting is usually stimulated by tribal warlords fighting over a litteral wasteland, There's no jobs, no industry, almost no farming, most people are starving and living below the line of absolute poverty, and still, the majority of the male population used A stimulant Drug (it's a typical plant, dried and then chewed) that's quite addictive and is said to improve their performance in combat (like jet).

Bradylama said:
Then again, Fallout 2 was much more "evolved" in a sense from the situation in Fallout. But that still doesn't mean that Jetheads should be running around wherever you go.

When the Families lose customers, how are they going to survive? They can't.

I do agree It feels a little overcrowded, but here you can use the same excuse that's been used for every major city: You only see the center of the city, where most of the interesting things take place. The amount of gambling that takes place is a bit too much in my opinion, and anyway, each family had a "niche" to get money from besides gambling, the mordinos had Jet, The wrights were by far the biggest on booze, Salvatore had his shady dealing with the enclave and Bishop had the power-play between NCR and Vault city.


All in all, i gotta agree it's not very post apocalyptic, but that doesn't mean it isn't justfiable in the game world (besides Golden Globes, that was stupid, maybe they should've made a porn Theater), and in my opinion still "felt" better than SanFran or the NCR.
 
Bradylama said:
People that take drugs have the benefit of a capitalist society which provides food on demand (and money)
Hmm, I'm curious why I read the term capitalist society so often without seeing any significance to the fact that society is capitalist.
I'd write capitalist society only if I meant to emphasize the relevance of capitalism in the context. Why did you do it?
 
A society that supports the people, rather than people supporting society, sounds like socilism to me.
 
Heh...that's funny. Druggie = dead? From my time aiding Shore Patrol and wrestling someone on PCP down to the ground, I could say that they might be too stupid to run from odds against them or drink from the wrong place, but otherwise are quite a problem. Imagine a group of raiders, in a sort of Clockwork Orange method of...oh, they were druggies, too, and seemed to rob people just fine.

Pot smokers? The scary thing I know is a few snipers I personally know are stoners and can hit even better in a cloud of green than when they are sober. It does take a bit of training to learn how to fine-tune your reflexes, but if your skill is good initially, it will help against second-guesses and the like. It also helps in putting the hairs on the target.

And if someone thinks a crackhead or a meth-head (methamphetamine, which Jet is very close to) can't survive in the wasteland, then they haven't been around the western US and especially not around those living in Spun Valley. They don't have much intelligence, but fuck like rabbits and their childrenhave a behaviour and intelligence pattern disturbingly similar to their own. They are the human version of cockroaches.
 
And if someone thinks a crackhead or a meth-head (methamphetamine, which Jet is very close to) can't survive in the wasteland, then they haven't been around the western US and especially not around those living in Spun Valley. They don't have much intelligence, but fuck like rabbits and their childrenhave a behaviour and intelligence pattern disturbingly similar to their own. They are the human version of cockroaches.

How is it that they survive though? Living off the land?
 
Bradylama said:
How is it that they survive though? Living off the land?

/me blinks.

/me points at Bradylama.

If anyone wants an example of someone who seems to like eating bullshit US govt. propoganda, there it is. Try to be kind.
 
I already answered your question.

In other words, your ignorance is showing.

And by "ignorance", I don't mean any item of clothing or anatomy.
 
I'd just like to know how they survive. Its an honest question.

I can't just make assumptions here.

If they survive by their own means instead of consumerism then I'll cede the point, as that would fit Fallout's setting.
 
True, but Wasteland had a bit more cheese than Fallout and wasn't quite as desolate and dark. Don't forget the ballistic tomatoes. :)

Bradylama:

I'll simply just say that it's quite naive to assume that people are completely incapable of taking care of themselves when under the influence of drugs. They have a dependency that would turn some to hard times, but they do find a way to survive. Joining like-minded people and fighting together wouldn't be a hard thing to imagine, people do that by nature. I had already mentioned A Clockwork Orange, but perhaps you haven't seen it yet to fully understand the point. Listen to the narration. Now imagine the movie WITHOUT police.

I also have to wonder if you've been to the western US, or for that matter, outside of OK. People cranked up on meth (Jet) aren't helpless by any means. They may make foolish decisions, but they still survive. People have pointed out how this works the same for in other countries. Is drug use increased in hot zones? It definitely is, because if you could be shot at any time for years on end, then people will turn to drug use to cope with the situation. Maybe the bullets won't feel so bad.

Drug use really wouldn't remove the knowledge of how to survive in the wasteland or how to prey upon others. For your homework, you need to school yourself upon the effects of drug use, and not something gleaned from a hype site.
 
J.E. Sawyer said:
Detroit Motor Cars Ibex Police Interceptor - "It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks.

– Fix the cigarette lighter.
 
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