VATS is not RTwP

[Bodybag]

How long would it take for them to implement a real turn-based system? A few days? Jesus.

Either you're the world's most awesome programmer (and as such, Japanese) or you're speaking right from your ass. A few days to completely redesign and rebalance the entire combat system?! I say this as someone who enjoyed the TB combat in Fallout: Buh?

...
Hey BN, you're (surprise) making a mountain out of a molehill here.

 

[Brother None]

Hey BN, you're (surprise) making a mountain out of a molehill here.

So? Do you bleed every time someone does that? Stop whining.

That said, I'm not the one who brought this up, or who insists on the factual incorrect statement that Fallout 3 does not utilize a RTwP system. Y'know what that would be? A lie. I don't like lies. I'm not making a mountain out of shit, I'm contradicting a lie. That's it.

 

[Stag]

Maybe I underappreciate, but I highly doubt it would be as drastic a change as you seem to think. It seems to me they have most of the components (i.e., pausing, dice rolls, "vats" menu), they just need to add a few more and implement things differently. I don't have a whole lot of experience programming, but I have seen some pretty well put together mods and programs by single man teams.

 

[Brother None]

No, Bodybag is right, Nexus6. It's not incredibly drastic, that's true, and implementing TB wouldn't be incredibly difficult.

But balancing the game well for RT and TB, that's the nearly impossible part. Would take a lot of programmers, basically.

 

[Bodybag]

That said, I'm not the one who brought this up

You posted the quote to the front page, inviting readers to see your thoughts on it via direct link. I don't know who originally brought it up, but you brought it up here.

Stop whining.

Dude, where's the whining? I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal.

or who insists on the factual incorrect statement that Fallout 3 does not utilize a RTwP system.

Even though he seems to believe what he's saying, he's still not nearly as gung-ho about defending it as you are about exposing him as a fraud and TEARING DOWN THE WALLS OF ect (note to strawman-screamers: I'm paraprhasing). You're reacting disproportionally. I'm actually trying to help you on this one.

Y'know what that would be? A lie. I don't like lies. I'm not making a mountain out of shit, I'm contradicting a lie. That's it.

Oh, there's the whining.

 

[whirlingdervish]

How long would it take for them to implement a real turn-based system? A few days?

A few days to completely redesign and rebalance the entire combat system?!

He didn't mention redesigning or balancing anything. He just mentioned basic implementation, which is the step before balancing and the step after designing (something that bethesda can't do all that well).

They don't need to redesign their crappy pausable bullet time (rtwbt&p) system. They need to scrap it and purchase the code for a turn based combat system from a more capable developer, and possibly hire that other developer's programmers to do what their in-house guys are incapable of doing.

With this hybrid team of programmers they could implement such a system into their current graphic engine, using their current resources, in relatively little time and without hurting their heads trying to design something innovative out of what is currently just a conglomeration of mechanics from some other games that sold well.

BTW, I agree with your assumption that balancing such a system with what bethesda has done so far, would take a long time.


shoving it in there wouldn't be a problem tho, as Bethesda is actually not that bad at jamming seemingly unrelated ideas into one box using the amazing power of money, and then getting that box of shit to sell using the arcane conjurings of their PR dept.

 

[Stag]

I keep forgetting that VATS is only an option...Blech.

 

[Brother None]

You posted the quote to the front page, inviting readers to see your thoughts on it via direct link. I don't know who originally brought it up, but you brought it up here.

Oh, right, sorry for doing what this site is meant for

Dude, where's the whining? I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal.

You're certainly making a big deal out of it not being a big deal.

Even though he seems to believe what he's saying,

Ahahahahaha!

Wait...not a joke?

he's still not nearly as gung-ho about defending it as you are about exposing him as a fraud and TEARING DOWN THE WALLS OF ect

Really?

He posts a rant, I post a rant.

Both simply argued a point.

Yet according to you, he is doing a reasonable exposition while I'm obsessively gung-ho.

Jeesh, you think that might be just the way you want to see it, double b?

 

[Madbringer]

I keep forgetting that VATS is only an option...Blech.

Using guns is an option too. Maybe this is this "choice and consequence" thing i keep hearing about

 

[whirlingdervish]

VATS is nothing more than a halfassed attempt at appeasing the crowd who have actually played Fallout and are adamant that they will not buy another spinoff with completely different mechanics, no matter how well it is disguised.

Unfortunately this crowd, according to bethesda, isn't even their third most important target audience, and as such their attempt at appeasing us wasn't even all that well thought out or implemented in an intelligent fashion, since it meant next to nothing to them and they still have their precious realtime FPS.

(we seem to fall into their "who're we here to please" heirarchy in some position after themselves and console kids and those people who liked oblivion)


The least they could have done was railroad the player into using VATS a couple of times so the entire game wasn't playable as an FPS.

(they have no problem with overt linearity no matter how many times they say "sandbox")

 

[Brother None]

The least they could have done was railroad the player into using VATS a couple of times so the entire game wasn't playable as an FPS.

It probably isn't, unless you're a really good FPS player. Too much ammo expending that way, you need targeted shots at times.

At least I think that's what they said.

 

[whirlingdervish]

But I AM a pretty good FPS player..

seriously tho, ammo scarcity really doesn't have that substantial of an effect on a single player game which invloves real time combat, but allows you to save fairly often.

Take resident evil for instance.. It's harder than hell to find enough ammo to kill everything in the game (impossible in some of them), but for those enemies that you must kill to move forward, you can always save often before fighting lesser enemies and use the "knock-em-down and run away" tactic to save ammo so you can spray the shit out of the big baddies with your surplus rounds.

It usually only affects the number of times you'll be loading after dying, and the general pace of some of the dungeon-crawling/exploration.

I don't doubt that they think they can make such a thing work tho...
So you're probably right about what they said.

 

[Madbringer]

I'm pretty sure Bethesda will make sure you'll have to use VATS at least when fighting "bosses". When the difficulty level suddenly sky-rockets, no matter how good you are, you retreat to using "helpers", just for the sake of not having to die and load a couple of times.

Unless the game will end up being ridiculously easy, but without level scaling, i doubt that will be the case.

 

[zioburosky13]

VATS = Bullet Time.

Nuff said.

 

[Xenophile]

Never really thought about it before.. but I don't think I have ever played a "Bullet time" game where I could queue up actions.

Really the more I think about the combat system, the more I am looking forward to it. I have said before I loved Fallout, but as a tactical TB game, it sucked donkey balls.

 

[simdude]

Hamster's point there, buzzed straight past me and into the windshield of the car behind.

FPS - you run, shoot, collect items.
TPS - you run, shoot, collect items, and stare at the PC's ass all the time.

I can't wait for WITCHES to come out.

 

[Parannegha]

In VATS, when the action starts again, you’re not back to real-time. Rather, you’re in a mode where your character acts quickly, while the rest of the world is heavily slowed down.

About time! F3 is getting it's share of bullet time, as will all other games. Bow before the next-gen!

i think we should give the system a chance

What system? VATS doesn't change combat one bit. Exept dumb it down as much as possible for x360 controller users so that they don't get gangraped as in Halo 1/2/3.

Beth, how about the VATS reloading if you have a critical success?

No need to. There's already a perk which reloads it every time you kill someone, remember? Endless player turn FTW!

 

[Maszin]

Never really thought about it before.. but I don't think I have ever played a "Bullet time" game where I could queue up actions.

Isn't 'a bullet time game with cued actions' an oxymoron? No really, if you want to watch bullets flying in slow motion and actions taking place one after another without you having to move a finger why not settle for John Woo's films?

I have said before I loved Fallout, but as a tactical TB game, it sucked donkey balls.

Well perhaps it wouldn't sucked that much as a tactical TB game if it was a tactical TB game and not a RPG TB game. How does the ability to play actions in a set order (which has been present in TB games since... I don't know... forever perhaps?) and bullet time exactly contribute to the system being more tactical?
Speaking of which - the more i think about bullet time VATS combined with Reaper's Sprint perk into an über tactical solution, the more I think they should have picked that Nuclear Man perk.

 

[mareboro]

seing as the new fallout named game is all about quick gratification and FUN, i propose the main character to scream "booom HEADSHOT" everytime he/she kills someone that would be fun no ?

 

[Paladin Solo]

seing as the new fallout named game is all about quick gratification and FUN, i propose the main character to scream "booom HEADSHOT" everytime he/she kills someone that would be fun no ?

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