Vault people and items in the wasteland

[Odin]

JE also posted some minor posts about the people inside the vaults and items that would be most likely found in the wasteland:<blockquote>Vault people:<blockquote>It is important to note, however, the Vault folks were pretty naive, even before the war. If you watch a film like Atomic Cafe, it's pretty clear that people expected to go into a bunker, hang out for a little while, then pop out and clean up. "Surely the military will handle any rabble-rousers!"</blockquote>Items:

• 9mm and .45 bullets would probably be among the most commonly found and reloaded in the wasteland (after shotgun shells, of course).
• Nitric acid and sulfuric acid are very frequently found in acid rain.
  I think nitric and sulfuric acid rain are among the elements of the now oft-dismissed idea of a nuclear winter. But I may be incorrect.
  
  EDIT: In any case, nitric acid is used so much in so many things that simple chemical processes could recover large amounts of it from myriad sources.

Update on ammo in the wasteland:
Azael wondered if JE didn't mean that 10 mm and .44 ammo, instead of 9mm and .45:<blockquote>No, I don't. The portions of the state of California as portrayed in the previous two Fallout games do not need to represent every part of the United States, much less the entire world.

In our world, 9mm and .45 pistols are really, really common. They are also different enough from each other that people favor those ammo types for different reasons.

Civilians, especially ones living in a world where they think they might be overrun by commies, are likely to have a greater volume of firearms and bullets than law enforcement agents.

Chris Taylor picked the 10mm because it is modern. In fact, it's only really seen use in the past decade (90s) by law enforcement agents. When I (and many people, I believe), think of .45s and 9mms, they see G.I.s running through French fields with Thompsons and German officers with Lugers -- the era immediately prior to the rise of the atomic age.

And when I say "difference", I don't mean literal size difference, I mean bullet characteristics. Though it is often debated, people generally seem to use 9mm for more penetrating power and .45 for raw tissue damage.</blockquote>Lazlo Lazo asked about gauss/plasma pistols compared to gauss/plasma rifle:<blockquote>It might be, but if a gauss pistol uses 2mm EC and a charge from a SEC for each shot, that gets mighty expensive. You're a lot more likely to find/reload/create conventional ammunition than railgun ammo and/or SECs/MFCs.</blockquote></blockquote>Just some minor stuff for you guys to read about...
Link: Thread

 

[Human Shield]

No, I don't. The portions of the state of California as portrayed in the previous two Fallout games do not need to represent every part of the United States, much less the entire world.

In our world, 9mm and .45 pistols are really, really common.

The Fallout world isn't our world JE! They made that mistake in Fallout2.

10mm and .44 are what is used in the Fallout world. The world of Fallout has a different timeline, 10mm and .44 are the standard for the US at the time of the war.

 

[Malky]

The Fallout world isn't our world JE!

*thumbs up*

-Malk

 

[N]

Hmm...

I'm going to have to agree with JE on this one, though.

10mm and .44 are just....not as common. And to have all sorts of the 'lower power'/weaker pistols using 10mm ammunition is kind of silly.

While I like staying true to the whole "fallout legacy" -- I agree with his choice in bullet caliber in this instance. Although whether or not it will make much difference in game, outside of their respective names (as opposed to 10mm and .44 in the other FO's) will have yet to be seen.

 

[Sander]

Honestly, though, who actually cares whether 9mm or 10mm is used? I wouldn't know the difference if I got hit by those bullets. I'd much rather have other things than the size of bullets.....

 

[Gunslinger]

Detectives in the F.B.I. used the 10mm round and found that the Jacketed Hollow Point would not blunt or would simply go cleanly through.

.44 ammunition was also used for Western revolvers in the 1800's. Most famous reference is the Dirty Harry revolver.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Props to Human Shield for being the only person in this thread who gets it.

Edit: JE Sawyer's point about the ammo in California being different from the rest of the world is rather funny. I can't see 1-4 states in the union using 10MM ammo while the other 45-49 states are using something else. You make 10MM ammo because 10MM guns are what's common, right?

 

[Ripper]

Props to Human Shield for being the only person in this thread who gets it.

Edit: JE Sawyer's point about the ammo in California being different from the rest of the world is rather funny. I can't see 1-4 states in the union using 10MM ammo while the other 45-49 states are using something else. You make 10MM ammo because 10MM guns are what's common, right?

yeah i hav to agree. hey FOt had 9mm and .45s right ? So u can guess where is JE getting his inspiration from.

 

[Gwydion]

Detectives in the F.B.I. used the 10mm round and found that the Jacketed Hollow Point would not blunt or would simply go cleanly through.

That's very interesting. Do you have any links? I wouldn't expect that to be the case because expansion of hollowpoint and softpoint rounds depends on speed and 10mm is pretty fast round, faster even than .357.

.44 ammunition was also used for Western revolvers in the 1800's. Most famous reference is the Dirty Harry revolver.

Another really interesting statement. I'm pretty sure that the magnum pistol calibers are all 20th century inventions. Are you sure you aren't thinking of .45 Colt?

edit: My NRA Basic Pistol Shooting book says the .44 magnum round was created in 1956.

 

[SimpleMinded]

Honestly, though, who actually cares whether 9mm or 10mm is used? I wouldn't know the difference if I got hit by those bullets. I'd much rather have other things than the size of bullets.....

here here! I couldn't agree more with you. I don't know much about guns but I remember reading a joke that the metric system never really picked up in the united states except when you consider the introduction of the 9mm bullet. But oh well... Like Sander put it, I never even knew what ammunition i ever was using in Fallout anyway, just its image.

 

[Aram]

Thanks goodness they're finally moving away from such a ridiculous arsenal. Hopefully, they'll finally get it right this time.

 

[Gunslinger]

Gwydion, I don't have any links for the 10mm issue. If you can stand it, read "Point of Impact" by Stephen Hunter. Once you get through a hundred pages of really crappy dialogue and plot, there's a mention of why 10mm was defective.

As for the .44, I'm definitely sure. A Colt repeating rifle (a rifle with a revolver chamber) was chambered with .44 long colt. There were revolvers used in the Civil War that used .44.

I like your avatar. Is it Saint Gabriel Possenti?

 

[Gwydion]

Gwydion, I don't have any links for the 10mm issue. If you can stand it, read "Point of Impact" by Stephen Hunter. Once you get through a hundred pages of really crappy dialogue and plot, there's a mention of why 10mm was defective.

Bleh. I probably won't ever bother, can you summarize? Anyway, I suspect that if there was a problem with lack of expansion or over penetration it would be an issue that could be corrected with bullet design. I've never fired one myself, but a lot of people swear by the 10mm cartridge. It offers magnum-level performance in a medium sized automatic without any of the issues associated with the Desert Eagle.

As for the .44, I'm definitely sure. A Colt repeating rifle (a rifle with a revolver chamber) was chambered with .44 long colt. There were revolvers used in the Civil War that used .44.

Oh, you are thinking of .45 Colt. It was originally a black powder round developed in the 19th century. The round in the game is .44 Magnum, a much newer round developed by Smith & Wesson.

I like your avatar. Is it Saint Gabriel Possenti?

Yup.

 

[Aram]

Oh, you are thinking of .45 Colt. It was originally a black powder round developed in the 19th century. The round in the game is .44 Magnum, a much newer round developed by Smith & Wesson.

Most likely, he's thinking of the .44-40 WCF, or possibly the .44 Special, which was available as a black powder cartridge in its early days.

 

[Aram]

Detectives in the F.B.I. used the 10mm round and found that the Jacketed Hollow Point would not blunt or would simply go cleanly through.

The 10mm Auto failed because the wimpier and female agents complained about its recoil and the size requirements of a 10mm firearm. There wasn't anything especially wrong with the 10mm. It was just decided that the .40 S&W, a shortened, lighter 10mm, would be a better choice.

 

[Gwydion]

Most likely, he's thinking of the .44-40 WCF, or possibly the .44 Special, which was available as a black powder cartridge in its early days.

Don't know anything about that .44-40 cartridge, but I thought .44 special was created in 1907. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the .44 S&W russian cartridge?

 

[Aram]

Most likely, he's thinking of the .44-40 WCF, or possibly the .44 Special, which was available as a black powder cartridge in its early days.

Don't know anything about that .44-40 cartridge, but I thought .44 special was created in 1907. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the .44 S&W russian cartridge?

Whoops. You're right. I didn't mean the .44 Special. I was refering to the .44 American.

The .44-40 Winchester Centerfire (W.C.F.) was an old black powder cartridge. It was introduced in 1873, to go with with the Winchester '73 lever-action rifle. At its time, it was just about the most popular cartridge around. They used the same cartridge in the Colt SAA a short while after, too. It was a big cartridge back then, just a little less power than today's .357.

 

[Gwydion]

How does the .44-40 compare to .45 Colt? (Dimensionally, power, usage, etc...)

 

[Aram]

Depends on which load. The load they made for the revolvers traveled at around 900 fps. The load they made for rifles, which wasn't meant to be used in a handgun but could if a guy was willing to risk a nasty explosion, traveled about twice that. For both, it was a 200-grain bullet. Comparing that to the .45 Colt, 250-grain, 800 fps, it could be either a little less or a lot more.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Honestly, though, who actually cares whether 9mm or 10mm is used? I wouldn't know the difference if I got hit by those bullets. I'd much rather have other things than the size of bullets.....

here here! I couldn't agree more with you. I don't know much about guns but I remember reading a joke that the metric system never really picked up in the united states except when you consider the introduction of the 9mm bullet. But oh well... Like Sander put it, I never even knew what ammunition i ever was using in Fallout anyway, just its image.

I'd rather have setting consistancy. Without that, why even bother making the game called Fallout? It's be like having Star Wars: Episode III featuring every single Jedi in the movie running around with vibroblades instead of light sabers, and saying that Jedi on a different planet just use other swordy type devices. That doesn't explain away that in every other Star Wars movie, they were all toting light sabers, but now they're all using something else because Tattooine isn't in that particular movie.

The same thing applies to the guns in Fallout's setting. It'd be rather stupid that only California uses 10MM weapons, while the rest of the United States uses 9MM. Factor in the fact that 10MM weapons were the main type of weapons you started with and that most raiders, merchants, thugs, etc. tended to have, how does it just being a California thing actually make sense? You're talking about the most abundant ammo and weapons in the game, founded literally all over the damned place. They're common as dirt.