War - thread

I get the feeling this thread is flagged in some database somewhere. . .

From my experience war is most indeed, not a fun activity to be involved in.
Hell I got my combat training from "Blackwater" before their silly name change. (They taught security reaction force basic and advanced at some place you don't need to know.)

I can definitively state that "mercs" are not a major issue in war times, rather the ignorant or idiotic people who embrace such a backwards solution to their conflicts. (War is the problem)

My solution is this, purge the majority of the human population. Then restructure everything.

Hooray humanity haha!
 
Mercenaries are people. Just like there are some people who fuck up and go ape shit, other times, mercenaries provide a valuable service as security for diplomats or other types of VIPs.
 
DarkCorp said:
Mercenaries are people. Just like there are some people who fuck up and go ape shit, other times, mercenaries provide a valuable service as security for diplomats or other types of VIPs.
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Some countries, *coughUSAcough*, are using more and more mercenaries to conduct their wars. Mercenaries aren't governed by the 'restrictive' legislation that regular military troops are. Plus don't forget, their military is a fully professional military, even the lowliest grunt is on a monthly salary. No draft, or mandatory military service in USA. The millionaire/billionaire - class in USA doesn't have 'skin in the game'. If, say, Ivanka (lol) had to be a, say, a mortar grunt, I'm pretty sure Trumpy would be a lot less slap-happy about sending troops to Syria or somewhere.
 
My war thread will be so much better than this one. Just wait. ;)

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles fought by mercenaries and machines. War - and its consumption of life - has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control... All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield... controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control... War becomes routine.
 
Ok and here we go, front page news in BBC. Sometimes I almost like prophetic about these things, maybe I should start to play lottery or something. Now it will escalate.

The US has sent several hundred Marines to Syria to support an allied local force aiming to capture the so-called Islamic State (IS) stronghold of Raqqa.

They reportedly arrived in the past few days to establish an outpost from which they will be able to fire artillery at IS positions some 32km (20 miles) away.

US special forces are already on the ground, advising the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) alliance.

The alliance is expected to launch an assault on Raqqa in the coming weeks.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39217015
 
I honestly don't understand the issue some of you have with mercs, look at the United States armed forces.
Has anyone noticed that the entire population of DOD personnel are volunteer? Technically that makes all DOD personnel a merc in some form. (Hint, the vast majority of United States Armed forces could literally care less about the country, its about the pay check. Remember the most poor in the United States tend to volunteer for military service.)

To be honest, the privatization of armed forces is exactly what the United States has been aiming for. The most basic reason are this:
Veteran Healthcare (MASSIVE)
Maintenance costs (EXTREMELY MASSIVE)
Ancillary benefits (Not massive but large enough to make you do a double take)

Imagine if you will, supporting an armed force without the need to be responsible for a vast majority of the basic requirements of keeping them combat ready. That isn't just a drop in the bucket, its a entire ocean. By allowing a private business to do all the support work for the combat and support personnel, the government could literally save a stupid ton of currency. (Duh, that's what they have been doing)

However as all organized groups can, there is a large degree of corruption and deceit plausible with such a system.
Private businesses lack the authority and power/public relation that any government has. So when there is an issue the government is free to plaster them against a wall, blame a crap ton of stuff on them, and basically treat them worse than "officially" enlisted or commissioned personnel. Take Blackwater for an example, the US gov left them out to dry, then supported their moniker change, and put them back to work. Ignorant masses were appeased and the cycle continued.

So if you take anything away from this let it be this; a merc is the unfortunate individual to be paid large sums of money to be someone else's meat shield/scapegoat. Because the federal government has given up on actually wanting to support its own personnel. I kinda feel bad for them.
 
A bigger problem is that you can never be sure about the actuall quality of mercs like in black water. You might have some people with some military background which know their weapons, while others have no real experience or actually know something about it. The US military, at least for now, has one huge advantage in their standardized training.
 
Crni Vuk said:
A bigger problem is that you can never be sure about the actuall quality of mercs like in black water. You might have some people with some military background which know their weapons, while others have no real experience or actually know something about it. The US military, at least for now, has one huge advantage in their standardized training.
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Lack of discipline is what you have with these pricks. That and they get paid too fucking much. Assholes.
 
If we are getting down to the brass tacks of discipline then the United States Armed forces are a roller coaster ride of incompetence to ideal. Depending on the branch of service that quality can greatly vary.
From my perspective from most disciplined to least; (Bear in mind I have experience with this)
1. United States Marine Corp - Most disciplined out of all the branches.
2. United States Navy - 2nd most disciplined (This is not bias, also excluding brownwater sailors)
3. United States Army - Well disciplined
4. United States Coast Guard/Homeland Defense - Yes they made the list
5. United States Air Force - By far the least disciplined of the core department of defense agencies (See Friendly Fire reports, they currently beat the army in friendly fire/civilian casualty statistics)
Various National Guard Units - No description required.

Now I completely understand that there is going to be someone to begin a nationalist fanboy flame war over my list here but my information is based on my personal experience, as well various after action reports I am aware of. (No I will not go into detail.)

Having said all of that, the United States Armed forces are not nearly as disciplined as other countries military forces. Plus the training required to join many of the branches (excluding USMC) are fairly relaxed if not joke worthy.

However the majority of combat mercs come from well disciplined branches, and a large majority of them have served in combat. Bear in mind I am not arguing for the benefit of the mercs, simply pointing out available information. The quality of such personnel are determined by the business that employs them. Which creates another oddity which is reputation. When a merc outfit such as Black water screws up, they have to handle all the public relations on their own, which can sometimes require a rebranding to redirect the malice the general public maintains.
 
You know, I do not know why they're called the 'so-called' Islamic State, that's what their called, for fuck's sake, if you don't want to trigger moderate muslims, just call it IS or ISIS, it's not that difficult.
 
The notorious OVB said:
You know, I do not know why they're called the 'so-called' Islamic State, that's what their called, for fuck's sake, if you don't want to trigger moderate muslims, just call it IS or ISIS, it's not that difficult.
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Usually that tactic is used to delegitimize something (see the confederacy in the civil war.)

The idea is not to view them as an actual nation state, the thing is its rather unlikely ISIS will be around in the next 10 years as their downfall is inevitable. Becuase if the civil war drags on longer, more people will die and larger more powerful countries are bound to attempt to put an end to it.

It be interesting to see if Syria (or possibly Iraq) was partitioned into zones of influence if an invasion ever happened. The east might be a Iranian/Russian zone while the west an American/Saudi/Turkish?/Isreali zone.

The American influence in Iraq and Afghanistan has been gradually fading and being replaced by Iranian hegemony in those countries.

I dont know too much about mercs like black water but they seem more likely to commit war crimes than a traditional soldier.
 
Einhanderc7 said:
I get the feeling this thread is flagged in some database somewhere. . .

From my experience war is most indeed, not a fun activity to be involved in.
Hell I got my combat training from "Blackwater" before their silly name change. (They taught security reaction force basic and advanced at some place you don't need to know.)

I can definitively state that "mercs" are not a major issue in war times, rather the ignorant or idiotic people who embrace such a backwards solution to their conflicts. (War is the problem)

My solution is this, purge the majority of the human population. Then restructure everything.

Hooray humanity haha!
Click to expand...

I get a lot of confused looks from my leftist friends when I state mercenaries should be allowed to be used in combat much more often and the laws regarding them changed. The idea they're somehow fundamentally different from most other soldiers is silly.

MutantScalper said:
Some countries, *coughUSAcough*, are using more and more mercenaries to conduct their wars. Mercenaries aren't governed by the 'restrictive' legislation that regular military troops are. Plus don't forget, their military is a fully professional military, even the lowliest grunt is on a monthly salary. No draft, or mandatory military service in USA. The millionaire/billionaire - class in USA doesn't have 'skin in the game'. If, say, Ivanka (lol) had to be a, say, a mortar grunt, I'm pretty sure Trumpy would be a lot less slap-happy about sending troops to Syria or somewhere.
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That's the flaw of international law that wants to get rid of mercenaries from theaters of conflict and thus, ironically, make them less regulated than regular soldiers. A simple solution would be the mercenary who signs up for an army gets governed by the laws and protections of said army.

The notorious OVB said:
You know, I do not know why they're called the 'so-called' Islamic State, that's what their called, for fuck's sake, if you don't want to trigger moderate muslims, just call it IS or ISIS, it's not that difficult.
Click to expand...

It's the fact IS' claims are ludicrous. It's called the Islamic State but if a bunch of guys seized a Walmart and called it the Catholic Nation of Earth then you might be dubious about its title.
 
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CT Phipps said:
It's the fact IS' claims are ludicrous. It's called the Islamic State but if a bunch of guys seized a Walmart and called it the Catholic Nation of Earth then you might be dubious about its title.
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The Catholic Nation of Earth sounds like a heavy metal band or something.
 
I think we're in perpetual war by now. And in US, if you're a poor or relatively poor person living in a ghetto-type area, joining their military and going to war doesn't seem that bad of an option. Or becoming a 'full' mercenary.

It's funny though, with the various protests like the one in North Dakota where veterans arrived to protect Native American lands, the veterans are saying that the cops have more military gear then they had when they were in the military. Up-armored Humvees, APC's, helicopters, snipers with military weapon systems, experimental gas etc., concussion grenades that can rip you apart, etc. US police is fusing with the US military and MIC (military industrial complex) is feeding off that situation.
 
MutantScalper said:
I think we're in perpetual war by now. And in US, if you're a poor or relatively poor person living in a ghetto-type area, joining their military and going to war doesn't seem that bad of an option. Or becoming a 'full' mercenary.

It's funny though, with the various protests like the one in North Dakota where veterans arrived to protect Native American lands, the veterans are saying that the cops have more military gear then they had when they were in the military. Up-armored Humvees, APC's, helicopters, snipers with military weapon systems, experimental gas etc., concussion grenades that can rip you apart, etc. US police is fusing with the US military and MIC (military industrial complex) is feeding off that situation.
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I don't believe the situation in the ME is so much a conspiracy to actively perpetuate war solely to benefit the MIC (although I admit they do benefit), or that it is due to some 'Wag The Dog', issue. We are simply making sure our interests, and by extension, our allies interests, are maintained. This kind of stuff has happened ever since nations got big enough to form an us vs them mentality in competition for resources.

If we do nothing, then we look weak. I mean, why bother allying with the U.S. when they do nothing to protect your interests when the shit hits the fan. Obviously, Putin and Iran realize this. They have their own interests in Syria and have done their best to affect an outcome that would be in their favor. Russia wants to keep TARSIS among other things, and the Iranians want to look strong and prop up another Shia ally in the region.

As to the second point, are we not getting a bit dramatic here?

Are you seriously trying to compare the small shit a SWAT team would understandably have with Apaches, AC 130 gunships, M1 Abram tanks, A10s, Howitzers, Mortar teams, etc, etc.? I mean, SWAT does need sharpshooters with the right equipment for hostage situations. Assault rifles you ask? Check out footage from the Hollywood shootout in California, back in the 90s. ONE or maybe TWO APCs? Same thing. Helicopters? Please, the Phoenix Police Department isn't exactly fielding Ah 64 or Cobra gunships. Humvees with armor? Maybe the department doesn't have the funds for an actual APC and have to make due? Maybe the local voters feel that up armored Humvees are enough protection?

Also, that is why cops call their shit 'less than lethal'. Can bad stuff happen to people getting extremely close to 'less than lethal', weapons? Sure. I have seen enough protests where the protesters attempt to get within inches of a cops face.
 
DarkCorp said:
I don't believe the situation in the ME is so much a conspiracy to actively perpetuate war solely to benefit the MIC (although I admit they do benefit), or that it is due to some 'Wag The Dog', issue. We are simply making sure our interests, and by extension, our allies interests, are maintained. This kind of stuff has happened ever since nations got big enough to form an us vs them mentality in competition for resources.

If we do nothing, then we look weak. I mean, why bother allying with the U.S. when they do nothing to protect your interests when the shit hits the fan. Obviously, Putin and Iran realize this. They have their own interests in Syria and have done their best to affect an outcome that would be in their favor. Russia wants to keep TARSIS among other things, and the Iranians want to look strong and prop up another Shia ally in the region.

As to the second point, are we not getting a bit dramatic here?

Are you seriously trying to compare the small shit a SWAT team would understandably have with Apaches, AC 130 gunships, M1 Abram tanks, A10s, Howitzers, Mortar teams, etc, etc.? I mean, SWAT does need sharpshooters with the right equipment for hostage situations. Assault rifles you ask? Check out footage from the Hollywood shootout in California, back in the 90s. ONE or maybe TWO APCs? Same thing. Helicopters? Please, the Phoenix Police Department isn't exactly fielding Ah 64 or Cobra gunships. Humvees with armor? Maybe the department doesn't have the funds for an actual APC and have to make due? Maybe the local voters feel that up armored Humvees are enough protection?

Also, that is why cops call their shit 'less than lethal'. Can bad stuff happen to people getting extremely close to 'less than lethal', weapons? Sure. I have seen enough protests where the protesters attempt to get within inches of a cops face.
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Just because Attila the Hun ransacked, pillaged and raped doesn't make it ok for US to do the same today.

Look at the MRAP's the US police are using. The Ohio University police (yes, the university has it's own police force) has an MRAP. Some pretty feisty frat boys over there, eh? Need to protect your cops against hardcore landmines and stuff.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/18/ohio-state-university-armored-truck_n_3949750.html

Btw, Ohio probably has a pretty good and 'energetic' party scene. Almost makes me want to visit.
 
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