Was the Enclave the only hope for saving the Capital Wasteland?
- Thread starter Sn1p3r187
- Start date
Makta
The DICKtator
Except the Enclave did trade/deal with outsides in F2.
I don't remeber this but if that was true i guess the idea is fucked.
mrchaos
Super Orc
They only dealt with one of new reno mafia family (the one with laser pistols) for a ton sh*t of chemicals for their final solution plan and that´s only because they needed certain chemicals that they couldn´t make themselves.
Makta
The DICKtator
And they were recruiting people for Navarro. Think there was something more but been a few years since i last touched the game.
mrchaos
Super Orc
They were actually recruiting their own people, the only people considered citizens of the united states. The people of the wasteland were just mutants for them.
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Yall may say this. But I think President Eden was the one who wanted to go with the Enclave's original plan for mutant extermination. I think Autumn just wanted to see the U.S exist again as a government. He was a bit of wild card in the enclave.
Atlas
Wasteland Wanderer
I have little love for F3, but even I know that Autumn's ideal for the Enclave and Eden's weren't the same. President Eden stood for the 'pure humanity' where everyone with mutations died. Autumn wanted the purifier to solidify the Enclave's hold in the region. In his words, regarding the purifier'
"Once this facility is operational, the masses will flock to the Enclave for fresh water, protection, and a plan for the future. "
Autumn wanted to rule the wasteland as a leader, he wanted the United States to once more have a government, to bring an end to the mass civil war that's been plaguing the wastes for 200 years. I personally believe that the TC is right in his assumptions regarding the Enclave; Autumn's plans would undoubtedly involve bloodshed, but in the long run it would be the better choice for the Capital Wasteland than the Brotherhood was. I can't say for certain if this is true or not, but in my opinion--which I respect--the Enclave would have brought some semblance of order to DC.
"Once this facility is operational, the masses will flock to the Enclave for fresh water, protection, and a plan for the future. "
Autumn wanted to rule the wasteland as a leader, he wanted the United States to once more have a government, to bring an end to the mass civil war that's been plaguing the wastes for 200 years. I personally believe that the TC is right in his assumptions regarding the Enclave; Autumn's plans would undoubtedly involve bloodshed, but in the long run it would be the better choice for the Capital Wasteland than the Brotherhood was. I can't say for certain if this is true or not, but in my opinion--which I respect--the Enclave would have brought some semblance of order to DC.
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
This is true. I wish we had this as a choice in Fallout 3 instead of just shooting the poor bastard. Having the Enclave take the BoS place in FO4's storyline would have been interesting. People loving a slightly nicer version of the Enclave rathern than them killing everyone. But, that would make the conflict between the Institute and the Enclave different...if there even would be one...
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
From what I remember of biology, you only need 50 mating pairs and none of the organisms are related to keep inbreeding from happening. So a bunker with 50 unrelated men and 50 unrelated women could survive genetically for a while if they manage their reproduction. Dealing with food would be the real problem.
Greentoast11
First time out of the vault
the problem is humans are inherently related organisms.
Throatpunch
Banned
I hate the idea of a government, it would take away from the entire crazy wasteland feel.
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
Humans can't escape biology. We are still animals. My point is that inbreeding isn't an issue if there are enough people to start out with. There just needs to be enough genetic diversity. The problem with Vault 101 is that the people you see in the Vault quests are likely the only people left after 200 years. I know the Vaults are larger than we've seen in any game, but a full Vault should have enough people to sustain itself for more than 200 years and rebuild. If for some reason they reached a bottleneck, like Vault 101 and likely 81 have hit, then they could die out because of lack of genetic diversity. But a Army bunker with like 300 people in it and room for 10,000 could go on and be a player over 200 years. With that much empty space and I figure hydroponics, they could make enough kids to be a force someday. Like the Enclave or any well stocked and well prepared bunker could be.
I'm honestly surprised more Vaults didn't move on to be powerhouses in the wasteland. This is a point beyond Bethesda's poor writing choices. Making a union of the some of the DC Vaults and making Raven Rock a military survivor faction would have been better than just recycling the Enclave. Also, I wish Fallout 3 was set between Fallout Tactics and Fallout 2; like 2207. It's more believable that things could be as fucked as they were in DC in 2207 than 2277 when Vaults would have released their residents long before then.
Throatpunch
Banned
There wasn't particularly much hope for the capital wasteland anyway. Leave them in their shanty towns and let the place be, its probably more practical to focus resources on somewhere more promising, like the Commonwealth. When playing Fallout 3 I never really cared for helping the wasteland and its denizens to a better future, because its a pointless thing to do. Records from Fallout 4 say that even with the Brotherhood trying to help its still just as bad as when they got there in 2255.
Apart from 101, but that was different because nobody was allowed to leave.
That would make no sense, because non of the vaults in DC were control vaults.
Apart from 101, but that was different because nobody was allowed to leave.
On a slight derail, I do like the idea of many "Valut City"s
When we first encounter Vault City, at least me, I get the impression that this was the way vaults were meant to emerge, they use their GECK to create a community immediately outside the vault, and the vault itself serving as a kind of guarantee - if shit hits the fan, they can always evacuate back in, and shut the door
In FO2 - from a pure narrative stand point - more than one VC would be confusing and clunky, but from a realism stand point, I like to imagine many VC's popping up, one after the other
By the time of NV, it should be a common thing, vault-towns forming networks, maybe a whole vault-culture, instead of still only one prominent "Vault City"
When we first encounter Vault City, at least me, I get the impression that this was the way vaults were meant to emerge, they use their GECK to create a community immediately outside the vault, and the vault itself serving as a kind of guarantee - if shit hits the fan, they can always evacuate back in, and shut the door
In FO2 - from a pure narrative stand point - more than one VC would be confusing and clunky, but from a realism stand point, I like to imagine many VC's popping up, one after the other
By the time of NV, it should be a common thing, vault-towns forming networks, maybe a whole vault-culture, instead of still only one prominent "Vault City"
Greentoast11
First time out of the vault
300 people is no doubt enough to sustain a populace for a while, but you said 50 mating pairs. There is a big difference. But yes I would agree the writers of Fallout overlooked that vaults could become a powerful force.
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
50 being the bare minimum, if there is enough genetic diversity in the population. And according to the chat here, its 25. And according to Wikipedia, the number to sustain the Panda population at a 96% probability is 25-30. So 50 pairs would work, but it would involve planning and IVF technology because of people's preferences. But if you live under a military remnant, it will be your duty to reproduce for the your country, so I don't see how that could be a problem. This also further shows how screwed and under populated Vault 101 was.
http://biology.stackexchange.com/qu...le-are-required-to-maintain-genetic-diversity
Throatpunch
Banned
Sort of derailing the thread there
Greentoast11
First time out of the vault
Vault 101 had in theory 1000 people , but obviously they couldn't show that many people. Just like in Fallout New Vegas the population of Freeside is greater than 40.
Whammytap
First time out of the vault
Interesting. I had thought it was canon that Eden and Autumn were at odds. That's what I get for not boning up on the subject--though y'all found out there's nothing to find out. Pity.
At any rate, I believe the Enclave could have made a much better job of it than any of the other contenders...of which there were none, if the Brotherhood did indeed move on out. (I don't have FO4 yet). It's said that the scariest sentence in the English language is "We're from the government and we're here to help," but I think in the Fallout universe I'd just throw myself at their feet and ask if I could sign up.
At any rate, I believe the Enclave could have made a much better job of it than any of the other contenders...of which there were none, if the Brotherhood did indeed move on out. (I don't have FO4 yet). It's said that the scariest sentence in the English language is "We're from the government and we're here to help," but I think in the Fallout universe I'd just throw myself at their feet and ask if I could sign up.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
Now that I think about it, in the East Coast, if only Colonel Autumn wasn't written in such an obnoxious way, that we can actually talk to him like he's a real human being, that we can call out Eden on its dumb plan and join Autumn instead....that would work. But because of Emil.... *sigh*