Wasteland 2 Ask a Dev Answers #2

[gumbarrel]

The problem with the AI in X-COM 2012, besides the obvious "we got a free turn, problem?", was that it had this weird ass leash, where only like 5 units at a time would actually do anything on a given map. So you did this constant routine of SLOOOOOOOOOOWLY going forward and waiting for the AI to finally see you, after which you started a small battle with usually no more than 5-6 dudes, only to repeat the process afterwards. A mod supposedly fixed it, but I really didn't want to install it, since I am always paranoid about mods like that completely breaking the game.

 

[Tagaziel]

That would certainly be better in that scenario, but I kind of feel that most often all npcs in an area seemed to be super attached to every single npc around. Shoot one, all attack. I'd much rather be able to have a pub brawl and still be welcomed at the pub across the street (unless there is an obvious connection between the two or the area) since brawls is a supposedly common thing in that kind of world.

How to pull this kind of system off without choking yourself on code I don't know.

Factions, like in New Vegas and Fallout 3.

Brawl in Bar1 makes you unpopular among Bar1Patrons and turns them hostile. However, Bar2 and Bar2Patrons remain neutral, while Bar and Bar3Patrons, who don't like Bar1Patrons, will like you even more.

 

[monsharen]

Thanks Tagaziel, and yes, that's probably what I was thinking of. Haven't really given Fallout 3 (and onwards) a fair play-through yet so can't say for sure if it's working well or not there though. In Fallout 3 I became a "cutscene" (stuff moving! woho!) addict caring very little for my character and mechanics. I wanted to like New Vegas but didn't have the time to, and then I moved and had to sell my xbox.

 

[Kyuu]

Action points based all the way. They just don't want to do maths and use their head. Curse of the 'dumb' masses!

The delusional nature of this comment is absolutely laughable.

Or just sarcasm. Not sure.

What's delusional about it? If you check the thread at the Wasteland 2 forums, you'll see that "I don't want to do maths" is in fact one of the arguments presented against the AP system.

 

[gumbarrel]

Action points based all the way. They just don't want to do maths and use their head. Curse of the 'dumb' masses!

The delusional nature of this comment is absolutely laughable.

Or just sarcasm. Not sure.

What's delusional about it? If you check the thread at the Wasteland 2 forums, you'll see that "I don't want to do maths" is in fact one of the arguments presented against the AP system.

The comment gives the impression, that this is a widely spread opinion and that people who are agains that system in general don't want to use their heads/math. It also implies that the commenter is somehow exceptional/smarter than the so called "dumb masses", which is rally just a rude word for "everyone else"

I still think the comment was sarcastic anyway.

"I don't want to do maths" is in fact one of the arguments presented against the AP system.

ONE argument, presented by ONE person, or is this an opinion that people hold in general?

Hell, what type of math are we talking about here anyway? I don't see them using giant numbers to represent AP to begin with, at most, you will probably have to deal with things like "100 total AP, this ability costs 40 AP". Hardly the type of math that people get anxious over.

Edit: After reading that thread, it seems the issue is more about dragging out the combat than anything else.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

One could argue that theft added to the setting in Fallout, making the player more aware of the lack of resources. Every man for himself type of thing. In Wasteland you're a group, so naturally you'll beat or talk your way to the lunch money.

Stealing and it's poor implementation broke Fallout in half. I'm far happier without it than having it work like Fallout. Stealing is a shitload of work to implement correctly, work that could be better spent on more widely usable content.

 

[Brother None]

Hell, what type of math are we talking about here anyway? I don't see them using giant numbers to represent AP to begin with, at most, you will probably have to deal with things like "100 total AP, this ability costs 40 AP". Hardly the type of math that people get anxious over.

Edit: After reading that thread, it seems the issue is more about dragging out the combat than anything else.

It's part of both. One or two people seem to be arguing against any level of complexity because it's just...too complex for em, but they're understandable the minority, since they're obviously not the target audience of WL2.

There's a lot to be said for carefully avoiding dragging out combat. I talked this stuff over with Chris (Keenan) and while they're definitely going action points they don't want to drag things out, which means clever management of opponent turns and an avoidance of HP bloat. They're not going up to 100, heck, they're not even going up to say 25. I'd expect more in the 10-ish range of Fallout, which is a good balance where you can quickly intuitively learn how much each action takes and don't have to overthink your turns.

 

[Crni Vuk]

which is a good balance where you can quickly intuitively learn how much each action takes and don't have to overthink your turns.

One thing I actually loved about Jagged Alliance though. But JA isnt Wasteland.

Eh, as long its turn based at least. And not some "wanna be TB" combat I am happy with everything (almost).

 

[Lexx]

While we are at JA2 - I love the 100 AP system from the 1.13 mod. It really helps balancing out their huge amount of clothes, weapons and enviromental actions.

 

[Grotesque]

It will be my mission in life to skullfuck all the bitches who do not want action points in Wasteland 2

 

[Crni Vuk]

thats Grotesque

 

[Brother None]

which is a good balance where you can quickly intuitively learn how much each action takes and don't have to overthink your turns.

One thing I actually loved about Jagged Alliance though. But JA isnt Wasteland.

Indeed. The balance and need for complexity is different. Combat should still be intelligent and challenging, but it shouldn't dominate the game as much as it does in a tactical RPG like JA.