Well, I'm replaying Fallout 1 now thanks to you

[Jogre]

Because, really, it's been in every game even when there's absolutely no reason for it like Fallout 2.

tbh, they have more reason to be in Fallout 2 than 3.

In 2, they are in the game because they have an embassy in Shady Sands, and are searching northern California for advanced technology.

In 3, they are pretty much on the other side of the world with very little explanation, and don't really even act like the Brotherhood. They are a new faction in everything but name, and are pretty much pointless.

And I like how they only played a tiny, cameo role in Fallout 2 as well.

As much as I love the BoS, bottlecaps, and Dogmeat--they aren't necessary.

Fine, I admitted it @JO'Geran are you happy?

Yup.

Yes, they're building-sized AI but the fact is they're also AI which possess godlike intelligence. I'm not sure it's so impossible for smaller units to be sentient if they don't have the same level of super-analysis. Besides, it's more like a woodshed sized A.I.

I don't nescessarily disagree with smaller robots showing some levels of sentience, but a Mr Handy(A domestic robot) being fully able of that kind of thinking is out of the question.

Besides, the ZAX was the height of pre-war computers, we should probably not see anything else near the same level of sophistication as it.

+ Also, why was THIS place of all places in the Fallout universe hit directly with a nuclear bomb?

A. Nicole mentions it wasn't just hit once, it was hit multiple times, and that someone clearly wanted to contents of it destroyed. One nuclear bomb didn't create a level of radiation that lasted for over a hundred years back then, it had to be hit over and over again to maintain that level of radiation.
B. It was the facility responsible for FEV and Power Armor. China has good reason to want it wiped off the face of the earth.
C. It's a military base. In a nuclear war, military bases are the primary targets.

albeit, I don't think they ever mentioned FEV as a reason--just radiation

Conversations with The Master suggest mutation is caused by radiation, whereas conversations with Lou Tenant suggest it's FEV.

In the Fallout Bible Chris Avellone takes both stances at different points.

Truth is: Nobody, in-universe, or out-of-universe really knows what causes mutation in the Fallout Universe.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Truth is: Nobody, in-universe, or out-of-universe really knows what causes mutation in the Fallout Universe.

For me it's the FEV. Which sort of makes me consider Fallout 2/3/New Vegas/4 not strongly canonical...

 

[CT Phipps]

In 3, they are pretty much on the other side of the world with very little explanation, and don't really even act like the Brotherhood. They are a new faction in everything but name, and are pretty much pointless.

Eh, it depends on whether or not we assume the Brotherhood's mission is bullshit or not. The whole point of them is supposedly a crusade to keep harmful technology (read: nukes, bioweapons) out of the hands of regular people. If they do that SOLELY in California, they're shit at their job.

As for the BOS being out of character, that was the point in Fallout 3, except for the Outcasts. Likewise, Arthur Maxson is basically doing what the BOS does if you kill Rhombus. Which...who wouldn't kill Rhombus? Should I *NOT* kill Rhombus in this playthrough?

I don't necessarily disagree with smaller robots showing some levels of sentience, but a Mr Handy(A domestic robot) being fully able of that kind of thinking is out of the question.

True. As much as I love Codsworth, they basically make fun of the concept at Hubris Comics.

"A English Butler? Why the FUCK are we adding an English Butler?"
"Because it would be cool."
"It's stupid!"
"DO IT."

I could buy it if Codsworth and Curie were like ultra-expensive top of the line models or were "concealed robobrains" (which would make a lot of sense, IMHO), but that's just fanon.

Besides, the ZAX was the height of pre-war computers, we should probably not see anything else near the same level of sophistication as it.

True, though its "error-creating programming leads to sapience" doesn't seem like a super-difficult concept.

A. Nicole mentions it wasn't just hit once, it was hit multiple times, and that someone clearly wanted to contents of it destroyed. One nuclear bomb didn't create a level of radiation that lasted for over a hundred years back then, it had to be hit over and over again to maintain that level of radiation.
B. It was the facility responsible for FEV and Power Armor. China has good reason to want it wiped off the face of the earth.
C. It's a military base. In a nuclear war, military bases are the primary targets.

I don't think it's a military base as if it was a military base, it wouldn't need to have all of its research moved to Mariposa.

Conversations with The Master suggest mutation is caused by radiation, whereas conversations with Lou Tenant suggest it's FEV.

In the Fallout Bible Chris Avellone takes both stances at different points.

Yeah, I go with radiation over FEV personally. I think it fits the retro-sci fi feel of the place better.

Then again, I think of Harold as a mutant who became a ghoul mutant.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yeah, I go with radiation over FEV personally. I think it fits the retro-sci fi feel of the place better.

I don't. FEV makes more sense and explains it better. Not to forget, I like the idea of certain parts of the US being full of weird mutant creatures.

 

[CT Phipps]

I don't. FEV makes more sense and explains it better. Not to forget, I like the idea of certain parts of the US being full of weird mutant creatures.

Which is perfect as the result of radiation.

FEV only makes Super Mutants.



Radiation makes EVERYTHING.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Which is perfect as the result of radiation.

FEV only makes Super Mutants.



Radiation makes EVERYTHING.

No, direct dipping in FEV creates Super Mutants. Radiation making mutations is nonsensical and silly.

 

[CT Phipps]

Fallout Thoughts 7#

+ Okay, I wander around the Brotherhood and talk to people. There's really not that much going on here in the BOS other than they seem to have their head on straight and are the most technologically adept faction after the Vaults.

+ Aside from Rhombus, who has every right to be pissed off you're bothering him despite being a low-ranking initiate outsider, most of the BoS are actually pretty friendly to you. I also wish you could have flirted with the girl to the point of going to bed with her.

JUST BECAUSE IT'S THERE AS AN OPTION!



+ I go get the history of the Brotherhood of Steel again. It's a heroic and stirring narrative but the simple fact is that they're kind of reduced to being isolationists. They are, clearly, planning to do something about the Super Mutants, though. The plan to just 'wait them out' (which doesn't work as they're immortal and apparently missed this in the autopsies) won't work but it's clearly not Plan A.

+ I get my suit of Power Armor as my reward for my actions. Does anyone ever NOT take the Power Armor in this situation? I mean, the offer of the pistol and other stuff seem like he's just trying to put one over on the primitive.

+ General Maxson is a decent old koot even as he's less friendly than I remember. Basically, the only reason you're REALLY allowed in isn't because you're an Outsider. It's because they need a scout to find out what the hell is going on with the Super Mutants. Also, interestingly, he confirms the Brotherhood of Steel trade with the Hub. They're not completely isolationist.

+ Oh and I get the proof the Master's Super-Mutants are sterile.

Not much else to say.

 

[Jogre]

Which sort of makes me consider Fallout 2/3/New Vegas/4 not strongly canonical...

I thought 2 was in favor of FEV as well.

As for NV, they never really stated a preference.

As for the BOS being out of character, that was the point in Fallout 3, except for the Outcasts.

They didn't really portray it well though. The Brotherhood honestly seem like a confusing faction with inconsistent goals in Fallout 3.

Like, they go out of there way to help defend a Radio Station in the middle of nowhere from Supermutants, but don't actually try and help people in day to day lives.

Plus, you can very rarely ask why they strayed from there original mission, and the whole thing seems kinda swept under the rug.

Arthur Maxson is basically doing what the BOS does if you kill Rhombus.

Is he?

Arthur Maxson allows outsiders to reach the rank of sentinel, and does tons of stuff the original Brotherhood wouldn't care for.

I don't think it's a military base as if it was a military base, it wouldn't need to have all of its research moved to Mariposa.

Military research center. Point still stands

the most technologically adept faction after the Vaults.

I'd say more so than the vaults.

The Brotherhood actually develop there own technology, so they're probably a bit ahead there.

 

[CT Phipps]

They didn't really portray it well though. The Brotherhood honestly seem like a confusing faction with inconsistent goals in Fallout 3. Like, they go out of there way to help defend a Radio Station in the middle of nowhere from Supermutants, but don't actually try and help people in day to day lives.

Well, they're a hammer so they're hitting nails. The Super Mutants are the biggest issue in the Commonwealth so the army of super-soldiers is dealing with that problem. The problem being that the Super Mutants have been building their ranks for two centuries and have looted enough military equipment they can't actually beat them.

Plus, you can very rarely ask why they strayed from there original mission, and the whole thing seems kinda swept under the rug.

I felt Bethesda did a decent enough job actually describing their actions. Elder Lyons is doing his sneering imperialist White Man's Burden thing.

Arthur Maxson allows outsiders to reach the rank of sentinel, and does tons of stuff the original Brotherhood wouldn't care for.

I'm actually not so sure since you were allowed in and made a Paladin by the BOS.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Kedrick

The Brotherhood of Steel, under new leadership after the death of Rhombus, becomes an overzealous, techno-religious dictatorship. In 20 years, the Steel Plague devastates the newly formed New California Republic, and starts a Dark Age that could last a thousand years

I also think Maxson's use of Danse as Sentinel was less "Second in Command" and more "Personal Leg Breaker."

Danse alludes to it in his conversation.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I thought 2 was in favor of FEV as well.

As for NV, they never really stated a preference.

Ehh, a lot of Fallout 2 has OTHER shit I would't count as canon... true, true.