What faction is the best choice for the Mojave?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by The Calculator, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. The Calculator

    The Calculator First time out of the vault

    Dec 12, 2020
    The Legion
    NCR Pros
    Ghoul friendly: evidence Ranger station Echo
    Helios one (Orbital canon depends on courier)
    NCR Cons
    Mr. Fantastic
    corrupt(in the government)
    Mr.House Pros
    ROBOT ARMY!!!!!!

    New Vegas Strip
    Science in spades
    Mr. House Cons
    I'm still thinking on this one
    Legion Pros

    Massive army
    well trained(sometimes)
    Legion Cons
    unstable leadership/Future (Caeser)
    Cartoonishly evil I.E. Crucifixtion

    Who's the best hope for the Mojave?

    Add your own pro's and con's in the thread

  2. StopSigntheVendingMachine

    StopSigntheVendingMachine narcissistic sociopath

    Jan 28, 2020
    Mr. House/ Yes Man CONS:
    Robots can be corrupted and hacked
    Yes Man is only loyal to you because you found him first. You'd have to keep him a secret or under heavy security, because if anyone came to him and asked him how to overthrow you, he'd do it
    Once you get old and grey, Mr. House will either stuff your conciseness inside an AI super-computer or turn you into a Robo Brain or ghoul so you can continue serving him for eternity
    Though the Strip's crime families are not nearly the size of whole countries, they will be harder to control. For the most part, they have no laws and will turn on each other and you if the money ever stops coming in, even if for a day.
    Caesar's Legion CON:
    Caesar will inevitably kill you once you outlive your usefulness
  3. KingArthur

    KingArthur Unreborn Again [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    I would not expect Caesar to keep the Courier around if they’re not useful, since should Veni Vidi Vici happen at the end of NV the Courier is now the only person who could potentially be a threat to Caesar’s newly-consolidated winnings.
  4. Aurelius Of Phoenix

    Aurelius Of Phoenix Psued.

    Mar 9, 2018
    NCR: Will collapse due to over-expansion and corruption, probably a civil war.
    House: As long as no super hackers come around he'll lead a efficient yet strict society.
    Yes-man: The courier's experiment will probably fuck up and fall into an Anarchist hellhole.
    Caesar: After pacifying the Mojave the legion will move on and the Mojave will be a relatively peaceful area that pays tribute to Caesar. I doubt the courier will hang around and his mark will allow him to do whatever. I could see the possibility for Caesar to groom him into the new Caesar if it was a male courier and he showed some intellect. He's got to know that he won't last long even after getting medical care. After his death I could see a three-way war (possibly four) between Lanius, Vulpes, Lucius, and the courier.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  5. KingArthur

    KingArthur Unreborn Again [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    I made a thread about the Legion succession. Lost to history...
  6. The Calculator

    The Calculator First time out of the vault

    Dec 12, 2020
    good points on Mr.House Aurellius
  7. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    I don't think the Legion is a good ending for the Mojave by any means so I won't bother talking about that. For me, the other three endings boil down to the following:

    Wild Card: At its best, I'd wager it's the most morally good ending. "Anarchy", True self-determination for Vegas and the tribes/people of the Mojave. No outside occupation or dictatorship from an Old World ghost. The Mojave is free to cultivate its own society, with ample defence to protect it against any outside intrusion. The Mojave could be what we (according to Ulysses) lost at the Divide. The issue comes that it's 1000% the biggest gamble, as there is literally zero security that this won't fall flat on its face and end up a failed political experiment with human suffering as the cost. Of course, also worth noting that it's also the most variable ending, and can easily be the worst with the Courier going on a killing spree, destroying the Securitron Army and rendering Hoover Dam inoperable.

    I'd also argue that this ending is the best one for NCR. The NCR is at a crossroads in New Vegas, it's experiencing its first imperialist, corrupt administration and the events in the Mojave decide how NCR absorbs that idea. In victory, their terrible administration is rewarded, celebrated and effectively solidified. In any endings with Independent Vegas, they're slapped on the ass and kicked away from that path, absorbing it culturally as a bad idea. Which, as we're told about NCR, its continued expansion would likely mean a further strain on the Republic itself. The NCR is told to go home and play it safe.

    NCR: At its best, also a pretty good ending. Brotherhood and NCR make peace, with the BoS protecting the road in place of overextended NCR, Freeside becomes a humanitarian powerhouse, the Boomers become a powerful tribe of weapon merchants rather than murderous isolationists. Et cetera. In counter to the Wild Card ending, this "good" has pretty projected stability but it comes at comprimise. The NCR is overly bureaucratic, chafes citizens with taxes and has all the failures of a liberal democracy where money has too much sway. As I mentioned above, NCR victory also rewards and solidifies the position of moronic warmongers like Oliver, Moore and Kimball. The NCR sets course on an ill-fated manifest destiny which will be a disaster. Long term, that is, and arguably this long term failure is tempered by the fact that the Mojave in the best version is pretty well-set, that even the collapse of NCR would still leave Vegas in a not too terrible position.

    At its worst, this ending is pretty shitty. Not only do you reward a shitty, warmongering administration but you also carry out its soul-carving orders without hesitation. Tribes wiped out and a region that's strained under a new government that can't handle it. Not a good ending.

    House: House is a fairly inflexible ending, and rather nuanced. On the one House provides pretty strong stability and control to the region. The Securitrons, and his liberal deployment of them, are nothing to fuck with. House is undoubtedly a smart guy, an immortal leader and pretty fucking hard to kill (if you aren't the Courier). The issue comes that with despite his words, the actions of House show that he is remarkably cutthroat. If you aren't relevant to his profit margins, you're dirt. And as dirt, you might be liable to get sweeped without a second thought. If you believe he has truly altruistic intentions at heart, you can argue that this is all just stepping stones on the path to progress, neccessary prioritization in order to prosper. If you don't, House is a stable, but ultimately cold and uncaring despot. There's a lot of split between House's words and the reality of his actions and the actions of those around him, so it's an interesting debate. House winning wouldn't be the worst outcome, but can't say I'd want to live there.

    Personally I like Wild Card the best as an ending, but if I as an actual person were in the Mojave, I'd support NCR.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  8. The Calculator

    The Calculator First time out of the vault

    Dec 12, 2020
    Im gonna pose another question something that is not canon but is relevant to the thread. What faction in the entirety of new vegas (DLC's included) would be best for the mojave for example, Big MT, The Boomers, The Great Khan's, The Kings, Go wild which Faction would you choose and why
  9. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    A fusion of the Followers of the Apocalypse and the Brotherhood of Steel
  10. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Like he'd have a choice in the matter. Courier would wreck his shit and he knows it. they all know it.
  11. KingArthur

    KingArthur Unreborn Again [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
  12. LuciusCorneliusSulla

    LuciusCorneliusSulla First time out of the vault

    Sep 23, 2018
    NCR Pros:
    Massive state, by far the most developed nation only after the Shi
    Manpower that is incomparably large to the other factions in California
    An unquenchable manifest destiny
    For the most part, a fair government

    NCR Cons:
    Over extended to the point that when they absorbed more forces (desert rangers) the wasteland became less safe
    Clearly prioritizes taxation and resources before the people of new lands they come across
    (I mean the first things they did in the Mojave was genocide a tribe, build a prison, build a quarry, and headed for the Dam)
    Lack of popular support means that the only force in the Mojave is skeletal
    Without the courier they'd simply lose the conflict
    Even if they take the Dam it's not guaranteed to fix their incoming issues (Famine, Inflation, Massive dissent, Potential mass desertion)

    Legion Pros (Caesar):
    A relatively new state with little corruption
    Strong economy
    Strong military tradition
    A plan to reform the Legion into something more civilized

    Legion Cons:
    Caesar is overly idealistic, plans to invade NCR in his lifetime. Not the best idea considering NCR in cali is much stronger than Legion.
    The Caesar ending entirely depends on Caesar living at least another 20 years to reform the Legion.
    No apparent heir should Caesar kick the bucket early in this ending besides Lanius
    A tough problem for Caesar to solve where civilizing the legion may include allowing them to be literate which threatens his own divinity

    Legion under Lanius Pros:
    Virtually the same except instead of reforming you have a pragmatic military leader who'd keep it the same

    The Legion won't reform and can be ruined by a single devastating defeat. Short term recruitment for the Legion requires subjugation of tribes but tribes is a nonrenewable resource. Unlike the Midwestern BoS in tactics, they subjugate and take the entire tribe rather than let them breed more men for the future. This means if Lanius suffered the equivalent of Manzikert after his ending the Legion would be crippled.

    To be honest never cared about his ending but I know his primary fault is his arrogance he will practically trust the Courier not to betray him just because he believes his plan should speak for itself. This self righteous arrogance could lead to him being betrayed in the future even if the Courier wanted to help him.

    Ranges from dumb to really dumb. New Vegas needed more time in the oven to make this ending feasible for the Mojave. As it is, you either leave everything the same and 'rule' over complete anarchy or kill the unruly people only to realize that Yes Man can betray you and technically you didn't even create a nation but just have a bunch of robots to keep two massive military forces away. Without the actual explicit loyalty of new vegas, you'd just end up being the worse aspects of House and NCR where the lack of a real government in the Mojave makes defending it a massive conflict of interest.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  13. ResetRPG

    ResetRPG Hail Damn State

    Dec 16, 2018

    Fairly stable government with competent (although somewhat corrupt) bureaucratic tendencies. It provides for the people of the Mojave and is generally pretty stable.

    I feel most people would reluctantly choose to side with the NCR despite the high taxes and bureaucratic garbage because of the relative peace and safety that the NCR provides to its citizens.
  14. Apollyon

    Apollyon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 29, 2017
    The Legion is the only faction with the strength to control the Mojave.

    The NCR is out of question, since they are already crumbling under pressure of raider gangs and Wasteland critters. It would simply be a matter of time before the Mojave becomes lawless.

    House is basically powerless outside of the Strip and his reliance on agents makes him vulnerable. Most importantly, though, is that since House has no means of keeping the Mojave safe, it is a matter of time before the Mojave becomes so dangerous that the Strip will become isolated.

    An independent New Vegas is probably going to suffer from the same lack of power as the NCR.
  15. KingArthur

    KingArthur Unreborn Again [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    I agree with most of that except for Indie. I think a certain kind of courier, with House’s Securitron army, could put up a pretty good rule over the Vegas area.
  16. Apollyon

    Apollyon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 29, 2017
    It's an interesting discussion, but ask yourself this; can something as valuable as the Securitron army really be wasted by having it protect an area as large and hostile as the Mojave Desert?

    Like any robot they are subject to wear-and-tear, especially in a desert. Occasionally ones will get picked off by the stronger Wasteland threats.
    How long would it take for the Securitron army to have eroded enough that it can no longer serve as a big stick to fend off the NCR and the Legion?

    The Securitron army is all that provides the House and independent endings with a means to guarantee their independence from much larger forces like the NCR and the Legion. The question is whether this ace in the hole can really be squandered on guard duty in the Mojave.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  17. KingArthur

    KingArthur Unreborn Again [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    Those are very good points; but I’d argue that assuming the facilities under the Strip and Fortification Hill still exist, then once both NCR and the Legion are pushed from the Dam, maintenance of Securitrons is simply a matter of importing or scavenging material.
  18. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016

    NCR is in a bad place expansion wise and can't feed its own citizens at its present rate of growth.

    Well what else are you going to use it for?
  19. Apollyon

    Apollyon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 29, 2017

    Without an army of Securitrons, House or an independent New Vegas wouldn't stand a chance against the NCR or the Legion, let alone being assailed by both on two fronts.
  20. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    I'm kinda sympathetic to House, in-sofar as he's set up the entire New Vegas strip, and pretty much is de-facto the main power player in the Mojave, AND has given the NCR everything they need from power, to water and outright is planning to defend them at Hoover Dam, yet despite the fact that he's done everything to help his allies and keep them loyal, the NCR still wants to gank him, for reasons which ultimately come down to Imperial Occupation. The only problem NCR has with House is that he's in the way of them having full control over the territory.

    Problem is, House kinda strikes me as something of a Stalin-like figure. "I can get mankind to the moon within several generations, and an uncorruptable figure like me having total power over the Mojave's economy is necessary to achieve that.", and it clearly shows that House's plans are very urbanist, very focused on a specific economic core, and kinda disregarding human rights and autonomy when it's beneficial to him.

    Like Freeside is a perfect example of this: Effectively in settling Wasteland Tribes, House specifically took those who were favourable towards his reign, and made them the main power players on the Strip, meanwhile anyone less sympathetic to his project was effectively ghettoised. In his endings, this attitude is continued: If he sees Freeside as useful he intergrates it in to his new city state, if he sees them as an issue, he's more than willing to wipe out entire populations, or otherwise just heavily and brutally police them.

    Generally, the idea of a core metropolis which gets to control entire peripheries worth of territory in which people can have their entire livelihoods destroyed or changed or can be subject to a brutal police state at the whims of a distant city, doesn't seem like a particularly humanitarian social order.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3