What if the Enclave was a Social Experiment as well?

The Dutch Ghost

The Dutch Ghost

Grouchy old man of NMA
Moderator
Here is a 'what if' question.
I like the Enclave organization in Fallout 2 (Fallout 3 version doesn't count) but they are a sort of 2 dimensional Nazi like organization in behavior and actions.

What if you during the game would learn that just like the Vaults the Enclave also was a sort of social experiment, but one on a much larger scale with a lot more resources.
While the Vaults would test all kinds of smaller experiments the Enclave was an experiment to see the US government could also survive in some form.

Things such as organization, elections, structures are all planned in advanced and indoctrinated into the Enclave people while given the idea that they are actually in charge and controlling their own lives.
And while they do their daily things all this information is recorded and send to some computer server to be analysed.

Once the player had learned this information he/she could confront the president as well as the sympathetic scientist with it; revealing that he is nothing but a pawn in Pre War written program, made by long dead scientists.

This all makes the president start wondering his place in this all, he could hold on that he doesn't care but if the player is skilled enough he could also break this belief, making the president realise what has been going on; he is just a number in some theory.

The president would give the player his security pass while he starts to think of his first free decision; leaving the Enclave or staying when the oil rig blows up.

Perhaps the president would even give a dead man switch code to the player to disable Frank Horrigan.


This is all a little forced, especially with the background that the Enclave is made up of the descendants of old US government and corporation hardliners and their selected personnel, but one explanation could be that they had been lied to about their ancestors.
Or that whoever initiated the Vault Experiments and the Enclave experiment really didn't care much for the elite of the US, seeing them as just more guinea pig material.

Edit: small sentence correction.
 
That would be a very interesting idea. The ones that created the Vault Experiments turning out to be a experiment themselves. Irony at it's finest.

but they are a sort of 2 dimensional Nazi like organization in behavior and actions.
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I disagree. I think they are a bunch of greedy bastards, but I can see where they are coming from. They long for the America of old, without rampant mutants or murderous raiders terrorizing people. They remember when America was the place that was making them rich. They are the reason the world became what it is now, but I can see why they did what they did. Why should they return to the wastes and slowly re-estabilish their old country with the help of the wastelands? That would take years and years, many resources, many wars and many deaths in their side. And then imagine how long it would take then to turn into a worldpower and conquer the rest of the world? The Enclave's Final Solution was actually a fairly sensible plan. It would allow them to rebuild the world the way they wanted it, riding the world of the human trash that would only give them problems. That would kil all the unwanted humans of the mainland USA AND kill any other possible civilization that might have returned after the war (if the Enclave survived, other governaments of other countries could do the same), which means that they could rebuild the world the way they see fit, because there's NOBODY to disagree. Sure, that would kill a lot of people, and that's a farly twisted way to bring world peace and utopia, but then again, this is Fallout. Even the "good guys" are bastards, imagine the "bad guys."
 
Hello Slaughter Manslaught,

I know what you mean, but I mean in attitude and such, planning all kinds of evil and nasty things.

That would be a very interesting idea. The ones that created the Vault Experiments turning out to be a experiment themselves. Irony at it's finest.
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I wish it was possible to go back in time and propose it to the FO2 development team.
Might also open interesting continuation suggestions; what if there still is someone who actually is reading those reports?
 
ACE mentions that the true AIs that were built "became incredibly bored and began to create situations in the outside world for their amusement. It is theorized by some that this was the cause of the war that nearly destroyed mankind." It's not inconceivable that the Vault Experiments and Enclave were engineered by AIs.

Assuming they were in a safe location, or could prevent themselves from being targeted by nukes, it would give them great insight into human behavior that couldn't be found in any other circumstances. Hence the rather inhumane nature of many of the Vaults. (The jumpsuit extruders failing in V70 isn't so bad itself, but filling it with Mormons was just evil.) We spend plenty of time speculating about what the post-apocalyptic world would be like; they got to actually find out.
 
Kanhef said:
ACE mentions that the true AIs that were built "became incredibly bored and began to create situations in the outside world for their amusement. It is theorized by some that this was the cause of the war that nearly destroyed mankind." It's not inconceivable that the Vault Experiments and Enclave were engineered by AIs.
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That would have been a neat idea.

Hmm, imagine the possibilities

[spoiler:a535af8ccb]John Henry Eden, the AI at Raven Rock reveals to you that it started the Enclave Social experiment, just as the US government wanted to see if the people could survive, Eden wanted to see if the US government could survive.[/spoiler:a535af8ccb]
 
Assuming they were in a safe location, or could prevent themselves from being targeted by nukes, it would give them great insight into human behavior that couldn't be found in any other circumstances. Hence the rather inhumane nature of many of the Vaults. (The jumpsuit extruders failing in V70 isn't so bad itself, but filling it with Mormons was just evil.) We spend plenty of time speculating about what the post-apocalyptic world would be like; they got to actually find out.
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If it had been up to me you would have found these AIs, or AI (John Henry Eden) in Raven Rock, revealing all of this to you in the end.
 
TDG, very good suggestion, along with Kanhef's.

I don't like the whole idea of "social experiments" in Fallout 2. But now that I think of your idea, I like it very much.

BTW, where's Raven Rock and who is John Henry Eden?
I would like to be able to destroy the said AI.

Hmm, modders out there?
 
I think the enclave is in fact an experiment created by all the vault dwellers...
They are simulating different situations to see how the enclave is gonna analyse the results...
 
Hello Stg Granite,

[spoiler:673a73b734]John Herny Eden is the Enclave president in Fallout 3, but later revealed to be an AI. however not like what I suggested.
Raven Rock, the Enclave's new base is located at the most upper North West corner of the Fallout 3 map.[/spoiler:673a73b734]
 
Why didn't the Enclave have more red, white, and blue and bald eagle iconography? They didn't have to be blatant, but they should still look more like "dystopian version of American government."
 
What if NMA was a Fallout-related site?

That would be one big heck of a social experiment if the Enclave was one. Kanhef makes an interesting point about the AI here. I remember you could ask Zax about the artificial intelligence but I don't quite remember what he'd answer. I'm interested whether there actually were AIs before the war, clever enough to possess the data and means to carry out such a project.
 
Kuj2 said:
What if NMA was a Fallout-related site?

That would be one big heck of a social experiment if the Enclave was one. Kanhef makes an interesting point about the AI here. I remember you could ask Zax about the artificial intelligence but I don't quite remember what he'd answer. I'm interested whether there actually were AIs before the war, clever enough to possess the data and means to carry out such a project.
Click to expand...


If I remember correctly, in one of the Fallout Bibles Chris Avellone wrote that the story about sentient AI provoking (initiating?) the war was not canonical (along with such advanced AI in general). It didn't fit, as I'd agree, the setting, and wasn't necessary to explain the outbreak of nuclear warfare.


I think the "vaults as social experiments" was sufficiently bitter-tasting (not horrible, but kind of out of place compared to FO1), that we don't need the Enclave joining the club. But as expanded (non-canon) Fallout fiction/musing, its intriguing (though maybe without the involvement of AI).


EDIT: Though its important to remember that Avellone wasn't the man in charge of the mythos in the original.
 
What if the Enclave was revealed to be an experiment?

Hello all,

A long time ago I asked this same question before to the members of NMA, and seeing as we had some new members since then I am curious what their opinions.

As those who played Fallout 2 know, during that game it was revealed that the Vaults and their occupants were used for a series of social and other experiments the Enclave scientists had set up to see if humanity could survive when dealing with certain issues, exposed to hazards, and other adversity.

This was all done to see if their space program and the colonization of another planet would work out.

But what if the player at the end of the game would discover that the Enclave itself is also an experiment?
If the Vaults were part of experiments to see if society could survive and thrive, that the Enclave was an experiment to see if the US government could recover and rebuild the nation.

Some of the worst elements were chosen to survive and stress the situation to the limit.
Close minded conservative hardliners, genetic superiority morality, ethic less scientists, over aggressive soldiers, and so on.
And of course a president and his staff who would think they are really in charge.

Unknown to them, all this information would be recorded and send to some mystery location to be analyzed by computers before being reported to who knows.

Your thoughts?
 
That would be a pretty trippy outcome actually. Firstly who would watch the Enclave? Before they bombs fell they were the shadow government controlling everything. Would be interesting if it were computers themselves that were watching and judging them. The ones still controlling the orbital nuclear weapons platoforms for instance. Its a noggen scratcher though.
 
there is a different, in the vaults they put people in strange situacions that can not be produce unless someone is controling all.

but if enclave is a experiment, is a little unimaginative, because all this people will be together from the start; they have the money, the power, they want soldiers that only obey their orders and have not troble with killing, but if the experiment is to put diferents kind of goberments in the wastesland, that could be cool.

maybe a better question is if you are making these questions to test us to see how we react?, maybe to you see this forum as a vault and other forums too?

you do this with a purpose, what purpose i dont know but must be evil...
 
It would be a good "mindfuck" moment 'tho.
Thinking of it, I really like this idea, but I always loathed this whole "Space Travel" or "Terraforming/Colonize other planets" thing, it's a bit over the top if you ask me.
 
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