What is the best war film?

Kharn said:
APTYP said:
You mean that war movies are to be judged by a degree to which they put you in a mind-state of those involved in the portrayed armed conflict?
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Partially, yeah, but not exactly.
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I'm fairly certain you are not talking about accurate portrayal of the events. As you know, emotions cloud judgement and alter perception, which is why people respond so readily to demonization. Moreover, with time hostility fades and people on both sides can freely exchange their experiences.
 
Dan, my copy of the book is at my folk's home, so I am remembering this from past experience, but I recall that Ambrose only spends a chapter or so on the British side. That's hardly justice.

Yes, he did write Pegasus Bridge as one of his first books. I haven't read it. It's also featured by Cornelius Ryan. The major character of Pegasus Bridge, Frost was also important in Ryan's A Bridge Too Far- not a bad war film.

I guess my beef with Ambrose was that the book was very commercial and tailored to an American audience, but in doing that he didn't serve a fair picture of history. THere were plenty of Brits and Canadians who died on June 6th as well. To say that the US turned the tide of the war on Omaha Beach is a bit disingenous- a move to sell books.

I actually Liked A.I and Minority Report- Speilberg's vision for the kind of science fiction we might see in our life time is quite striking and original.

Also I did like Band of Brothers a lot.
 
I just bought the DVD box of the Band of Brothers series and I thought it was rather decent (not worth buying, but I missed it on HBO). There's so many actors at the beginning that it's hard to remember their names until you define roles for them. Damien Lewis (who also played Jonesy in the horrible Stephen King movie, Dreamcathcer) made a believable captain. The action scenes were nifty but rather one-sided, with the Nazi's mainly running away (even during the paratrooper drops). You only get the feeling of desperation during the Battle of the Bulge where they rack up losses (the scene at the church where you actually see the casualties disappear in the pews is poignant). Some scenes were humorous but pretty unbelieveable (such as one guy running into a middle of crossfire just to loot a Luger or when Captain Winters leads a rush onto a German encampment and all the Nazi's scatter away from just one man).

Another decent war movie was Black Hawk Down, but it's mainly action with little dialogue or story subtance (but who could complain in a war movie?).
 
APTYP said:
I'm fairly certain you are not talking about accurate portrayal of the events. As you know, emotions cloud judgement and alter perception, which is why people respond so readily to demonization. Moreover, with time hostility fades and people on both sides can freely exchange their experiences.
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That's a bit difficult, because there's always a general outcry for "accurate depiction of events" when a war flick is released.

The thing with Apocalypse Now is that it was hardly related to reality, it was supposed to be and was a completely insane depiction of a (as far as the director was concerned) completely insane war, you could argue from there that he caught the insane mindset of those involved in the war by reflecting it in an insane storyline with parodies of human beings fighting the war.

But I would argue that because of this, its depiction of the war is as accurate as the one Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas gives of the feelings of the 70's...It's truthful, in its own way, but it's a monstrous parody of reality all the same.

Platoon, on the other hand, only had the purpose of depicting as well as Stone could what he felt the war was about; friendship, desperation, insanity, loss of all morality...but he does it in a realistic way, rather than magnifying it, as Coppola does.

I like Platoon best, myself, but if you ask me which of the two films was more important and "greater", I'd say Apocalypse Now. Still, Platoon makes the better war-flick.

PS: before I forget, the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan was really stupid, and I'm tired of people mindlessely fellating Spielberg because he "accurately depicted war combat for the first time in cinematic history" *sigh*
 
Kharn said:
Saving Private Ryan was Spielberg, AKA pathetic. I dislike the whole philosphy behind his filmmaking, and he rarely makes a film I can even stand (Jaws, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Indiana Jones and Hook (Bob Hoskins) I could bear)...most of them make me want to hurl, Saving Private Ryan was one of them.
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Wait a minute, didn't I see Saving Private Ryan on your top 50 movie list...?
 
I really enjoyed Saving Private Ryan more as a modern tragedy set during WWII than a war movie, as you people seem to define it. No movie can really accurately depict what war is like, although it may accurately depict elements of that war, so I don't really judge war movies on that standard. That being said, I believe that SPR did do a good job depicting some of the combat, although a lot of other aspects of war may have been pushed into the background as a result. One of the things my father remarked about after seeing the movie was that the ambient sound seemed very realistic, for example.

As far as the defense of the bridge went, the only thing that really struck me as implausible was the timing of the reinforcements. Any time you have two groups of soldiers meeting like that, it's reasonable to expect the attackers to suffer heavier losses than the defenders. The events as they unraveled didn't seem too unrealistic: remember they had the elemnent of surprise, they got to carefully plan, and they still were losing right up until reinforcements showed up. If the timing hadn't been so good, they wouldn't even have been able to blow the bridge before the Germans captured it.
 
Gunslinger said:
I just bought the DVD box of the Band of Brothers series and I thought it was rather decent (not worth buying, but I missed it on HBO). There's so many actors at the beginning that it's hard to remember their names until you define roles for them. Damien Lewis (who also played Jonesy in the horrible Stephen King movie, Dreamcathcer) made a believable captain. The action scenes were nifty but rather one-sided, with the Nazi's mainly running away (even during the paratrooper drops). You only get the feeling of desperation during the Battle of the Bulge where they rack up losses (the scene at the church where you actually see the casualties disappear in the pews is poignant). Some scenes were humorous but pretty unbelieveable (such as one guy running into a middle of crossfire just to loot a Luger or when Captain Winters leads a rush onto a German encampment and all the Nazi's scatter away from just one man).
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Well... Band of Brothers is based on a book by Ambrose, and he complied his book from historical facts... It isn't a made up story, but actually what happened. He reserched these guys, and most of the stuff happening there is probably from eye witnesses. So basicly, as much as one sided as it might be, it was actually like that for this specific company.

Welsh, I'm looking at the book right now. You are right in the fact that Omaha got the most chapters: Two infentry chapters, one about support tropes, one about the navy at Omaha, one about the Rangers, and four about the fighting after they secured the beach.

The brits have one general chapter, one about Sword, one About Gold and three about the airborne.
The canadians have one chapter as well.
(So does Utah).

He might have over done it, but generally I still consider it a good book, and I don't think he completly undermines the brits. He even stresses the importance of the airborne troops, and pretty much explains that the american airborne didn't do anything, as opposed to the british one.
 
I'm curious, did anybody here see Battle of Neretva? That's one of the greatest non-American war films ever made. It was directed by a Yugoslavian director and shot in areas around Neretva river (in Bosnia and Herzegovina). It's a really epic flick about Yugoslavian partizans and their resistance against German occupator. Cast: among others, Orson Welles and Yul Brynner. The reason why a Yugoslavian director managed to produce such an expensive movie is because he was financially backed up by the communist regime that supported the idea of a pro-partizan movie. It was nominated for Academy Award for best foreign movie, but didn't win it. All in all, this kind of movie is truly one of a kind in these (ex-Yu) parts and definitely worth seeing.
 
Ratty said:
Wait a minute, didn't I see Saving Private Ryan on your top 50 movie list...?
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NO! Definitely not.

And Rats, every country has at least a few good war movies. Holland has Soldaat van Oranje and Als Twee Druppels Water, but I wouldn't place 'em on the top list worldwide.

I might check that one out, though
 
OK, Dan, I will have to take a second look at the book. I did enjoy it, even if it did seem a bit one sided to me. I also agree with Gwyd about Saving Private Ryan's sound quality. The sound was excellent in the theatre and definitely improved the effect of moving the audience into the feel of the scene. For reasons I can't fully explain, I thought the battles in Thin Red Line, even the part when they send a small group to take out the Japanese position on top of the hill, to be more believable.

I am not sure how this fits into our choices but I would probably add Before Rain as a top war movie (although it doesn't really fit the general genre). Also Bridge over the River Kwai is a favorite and lets not forget Lawrence of Arabia.
 
I love the Dirty Dozen, although I think the bit with Telly Sevalas kind of ruins it.
Rob Brown, Lee Marvin and Charles Bronson kick ass!
 
A movie with a hippie tank driver? Ohh, I have to see this one.
 
That was a great role for Donald Sutherland, and yes Kelly's Heroes beats Dirty Dozen.

I loved the bit when the last Sherman Tank breaks down and Kelly ask Oddball what he's doing and Oddball says something like, "What does it look like? I am eating some cheese, having some wine, and taking in some rays."
 
Saving Private Ryan is bullshit. Amusing for the first hour then it just falls into mediocrity. Tigerland or whatever it was called was good. I still have to see FMJ. I loved Minority Report. That was my favourite movie for a long time and band of brothers was really good too. Captain Planet's a good war show as well. Captain Planet, hes a hero...........
 
M.A.S.H. ( muahaha!!!)

Platoon

Full Metal Jacket

Tears of the Sun

Braveheart (it wasn't really war... but it had war in it.)
 
huh, wow, those Eisenstein classics are *really* old classics

I dunno. Movies often loose their shine over the years, like most arts do. Arts just aren't meant to last forever, because, well, societies change.

I haven't seen Bronenosets Potyomkin or Alexander Nevsky yet, though, so I can't really say anything for those, but I will say I don't rank der Symphony des Grauens amongst my top horror movies either, althought it's prolly the most important one around, just like the aforementioned warmovies are some of the most significant films ever made.
 
I would include my favorite film, Andrei Rubulev, because it has a scene of the Seige of Pskov (or another famous Medival Russian city).


Anyone else have the Sergie Eisenstien: THe Sound Years collection?
 
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