What was the Funniest Argument You've had with a Bethesda Apologist?

I'm not sure if this thread belong in 'General Fallout Discussion', since you wanted to see Bethesda's apologist's argument, and I'm also not sure if this kind of thread violated any of the site's rules but... eh.

I've had this conversation with someone who wanted to justify how Fallout 4's voiced protagonist helped him/her 'get emotionally attached' to the story. I can't remember the full sentences and exact words, but it boils down into this:

Bethesda Apologist: *Argument*
Me: *Counterargument*
Bethesda Apologist: *Counter-counterargument*
Me: *Counter-counter-counterarguments*
Bethesda Apologist: Since you typed in a way that's not reader-friendly, that means I don't have to bother replying to you anymore (or something like that).

I mean, I typed the same way as I did my initial counterargument, and *now* you can't bother to read it because it isn't 'reader-friendly'? Seriously?

This convo existed in YouTube comment section for Fallout 4 (Zero Punctuation), so I don't know how to link it to you, especially since YouTube comment tend to just disappear despite being liked by +10000 people.

I also had another conversation on YouTube, specifically Gopher's video where he ranted about the removal of skills from Fallout 4. And then there's this train of comments started by a guy saying 'Skills are a holdover from a bygone era', and then the counterarguments were started by none other than Gopher himself. The convo also included the arguments about how perks supposed to work. When one brings up how in Fallout 4 nearly all the perks were just regular damage increase, this particular apologist brought up how it was they way it was in the original Fallouts too. I countered by saying that by the time of New Vegas, Obsidian realized that mistake and removed nearly all of the damage increase perks. The guy then replied how in New Vegas there's Commando perk. I reminded him Commando perk was added by Bethesda by Fallout 3. And then he insisted it was added by New Vegas. I shared a link to the wikia and then he just ignored me for the rest of the thread.
 
Dragonborn said:
OK... first of all i know you guys are just trolls who hate fallout 4 cause you is stuck in nostiliga... but when you drop nostiliga goggles for a second and actually look at fallout 4 it is clear that it is the best fallout game ever made... bethesda has taken a boring old turn based game and turned it into something new and all around better... fallout 4 has improved on the old fallouts in all way... they have improved immersion and story with a voice protagonist and have improved leveling up with the new perk system and made specials actual matter... they have even added settlement building and weapon customization... fallout 4 is the best fallout game already with these things... OK... so stop living in your moms basement and stop trolling and crying over the internet cause internet tears wont make bethesda change a fun game into outdated boring turn based... OK now if you dont like change and want to remain stuck on nostiliga THEN PUT YOUR MONEY WERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND DONT BUY THE GAME IT IS THAT SIMPLE
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Dragonborn said:
why be skeptical?? bethesda releases amazing award winning rpgs all the time just look at fallout 3 and skyrim...
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Dragonborn said:
yes if everyone likes it means it is good... people like stuff for a reason...
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kostjamoscow said:
All the zero's on metacritic are either trolls or people overreacting.

Go look on steam forums or reddit. I haven't found a single person who says it's broken. Some people complaining about bugs or framedrops.

Before people are going to call me a fanboy. This game sure has flaws. I am not saying it's a 10/10 GOTY.
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TomJ said:
And this is why objective people like me think you're blinded by nostalgia. I'm perfectly willing to call out 3's generic story and Bethesda's attempts to distract me from its flaws by giving me a sandbox to play with when I'm bored. New Vegas didn't give me that courtesy. Saint's Row gave me distractions that broke the game up every once and a while and I could repeat them if I wanted to.

And that is kind of the insidious thing with Obsidian. It relies on the nostalgia of the older fans because you guys will give it a pass a deride Bethesda even when it did some good things. And the Fallout 3 fanboys will like it because its essentially Fallout 3: Vegas Baby! And they liked it and likely Skyrim, which is a different story for me. Then there are people like me who are analytical who will point out the flaws in 3 and NV.

As for defending 3, why wouldn't I defend it a little more. NV is my other modern alternative and I think it is worse. Even considering that 3 bastardized Fallout 2 a lot and threw in some of Fallout for good measure. I will call both games out for their short comings and celebrate the shit they did right.
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Just type "Nostalgia" into the search box and go back a couple of pages, you'll find an endless pool of half cooked, strawman arguments.
 
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Not that funny, but someone once argued that Fallout 1 and 2 don't count as "Real Fallout games", because "Not enough people have played them"

I also saw someone defending the Dialogue system in FO4 by saying "It's great because you don't have to spend 20 minutes at a time looking through dialogue"
 
Oh, that reminds me of the guy that argued about how removing the voiced protagonist from Fallout 4 is equivalent to shitting on a soldiers grave on Veterans day, that was a youtube comment though, so it's probably gone.
 
5545Trey said:
It disappoints me that people would use nostalgia as an argument. Especially when most of the time, you have no clue if said person has nostalgia for said video game/movie/etc.
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Yeah, well, screaming "NOSTALGIA!!!!!" is way easier than making an actual argument.

I don't really argument with Bethesdrones, espcecially IRL. Nothing good ever comes out of it. But I haves seen people dismissing the RPGCodex review on Reddit because the author "sounds like a cynical cunt". I have even seen someone claims the review seemed like it was written by a COD/TF2 fanoby.

Of course, there are those who claims that it's all a matter of opinion, and you can therefore not say that the writing is bad, or that the urgency doesn't fit in an open world.
 
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This just in.

"You cannot, objectively say in any meaningful capacity, that Fallout 4 is not a Fallout game."

"then the rest of my statement stands, and 2 is not a Fallout game."
 
I'm not sure it's a Bethesda apologist argument but I just found this by accident.
In fallout new vegas you were, for me, recognized for your actions to broadly. If you killed an NCR patrol because you felt like it and you killed them all without anyone seeing the NCR would know and become hostile. If you make any of the main factions hostile it can become annoying. If you made the NCR hostile then everywhere you went you had to wear NCR gear or kill people. It shuts off a large part of the game. In fallout 3 there is no wide recognition which is good. The faction idea was great but maybe the penalties for crossing factions could be lowered. I mean if you met the courier as an NCR officer and he's been helping you do jobs which are flatly impossible for one man to do eg wipe out Cottonwood cove then if he kills four of your guys you might forgive him, instead of trying to kill him on the spot.
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This is just really damn stupid.
 
Izak said:
This is just really damn stupid.
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But it's the same in Fallout 4, when you kill a BoS or a Railroad or a Institute member somewhere in a dark corner so no one could see you if you feel like it and they turn on hostile. Hipocrisy, ho!
 
But what about people on prydwen? And I believe if you kill a lot of coursers for the railroad radiant quest they'll become hostile someday. No fun : ( /s

Back to the topic: Here's one of the funniest apologists.
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Youtube mostly brings us toxic crap like: "Stop bitching and get over that the games are differents. It's evolution you little shit nugget"
Facts are speaking for themselves.
 
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Izak said:
He turned glitches into heartwarming nostalgic moments? If I remember correctly Gamespot gave a worse review on New Vegas for the same reason, you fucking shills.
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Told ya. Hipocrisy is funny when you look from the outside.
 
Might not be the funniest ones, all taken from recent Steam negative reviews comments. So have fun:

these games are made to be modded, and they are their best when custom tailored to each individual person's wants... that's what makes skyrim so legendary and soon fallout 4. (though i'd rather play fo4 than skyrim now, just vanilla is better than that)
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Dialogue is limited because there isn't a lot of humans. Fallout 4 is a world apocalyptic where humanity were decimed. It's logic if there isn't a lot of dialogue.
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Also, I have to disagree with you, I played the older Fallouts and they felt more dead than alive. Buggy game mechanics, clunky gameplay even for its time and unpolished at best.
I could never really care about the story because, FNV AND F3 were both just a hunt for the next hint... hours over hours of 'do this I tell you who to go to next', and the finales werent really worth the effort. In Fallout 4 I first felt like I actually matter and I cared about characters.
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please explain why fallout 4 is so much more worse of a rpg than fallout 3 other than the fact that they simplified fo4 compared to f03 (which i actually dont mind and i even like the fact that the sole survivor has real voices now)

does fo4 have huge map to roam around with? YES!!! (once far harbor comes out this month the map size will become so much larger biggest sized dlc ever for bethesda)

does fo4 have a bunch of side quests and random events? YES!!!

does fo4 allow you to make your own character and build them up as you see fit? YES!!!

does fo4 allow multiple choices for you to make in each quest? YES!!!

does fo4 let you roleplay HELL YES!!!!! (i am roleplaying right now as darth vader with my darth vader mod lol and am part of institute as director i treat it like the empire and have a focus on melee and building)

FALLOUT 4 IS JUST AS MUCH OF A RPG AS FALLOUT 3 ITS JUST A BIT MORE SIMPLER THATS IT
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I really never understand when people say the roleplaying aspect of this game is gone?
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You don't like Fallout 4 because it has shitty dialogue? That's pretty ridiculous
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well if you want a game with crappy guns and graphics ,glitches and much much more go ahead and get nv
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After finishing FO4, I went back and fired up a new game of New Vegas to compare. New Vegas is not as good a game except the survival elements, which have now been added into FO4.
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yeah I have to agree with Psagi1 man you played this for almost 200 hours to say that it is band... If I play a game for at least 50 hours I consider that to be a great game, so 200... you people today are really sick !
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These next three are all from the same guy, so I added them all in the same quote tag:
  • Right, but the fact that New Vegas literally only has a new map, a couple different DLCs, and a different story to seperate it from Fallout 3 makes me doubt it when you say that Fallout 3 is worse than F4, but NV is better than both of them
  • Fallout New Vegas basically recycles all of Fallout 3's assets, so when you disregard new content, compare Fallout 3 to Fallout 4, then go ahead and say New Vegas is better than both of them, you look like quite the dickhead
  • If Fallout 3 is worse than "A steaming pile of shit" how can New Vegas be better than Fallout 4?
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I'l be willing to bet at least 70% of the people who wrote neg reviews tried to run it with a single or duo core with a GT Gpu..... Pity the fool Lol
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