Where is the geographical location of the Sierra Madre Casino?

[JustAShcookius]

This was a weird one for me, I remember in the intro to the dlc there were steppes and a canyon with a river. I guess this was the implied surrounding location of the casino?

Problem is there are no steppes like that south of New Vegas, nor East, and not North.

We have to assume the Casino is located to the West of New Vegas in the mountains. It must Either be North or South of the Divide. Most likely it is North because it probably would have been discovered by the NCR if it was in the South. The fact that the player is not able to return despite the impressive satellite mapping power of his Pip-boy is puzzling to say the least.

How many months does it take for the travel from the casino back to the Mojave? I know it took a few months to travel back and forth between the Divide and the Mojave. Such a great distance away though, why would Sinclair make his casino out in the middle of fucking nowhere? The answer is self apparent I guess.

Anyways if the casino was intended to be a survivalist city why was it placed in mountains like those? There are a great many missile silos in that part of the US. North of Interstate 15 is government "off limits" land in real life. That would make the Divide a plausible location for a massive missile complex.

Question is why would Frederick Sinclair make his fortress in the middle of a nuclear strike zone?

A bigger question is why is the Pip-Boy not able to navigate back to the Casino despite friggen mapping abilities?
Edit: Sentence forming mistake
Edit: Retard alert the Rocky mountains are not west of Las Vegas

 

[Charwo]

I did an analysis of the DLC locations based on the roadmaps and the conclusion I came to that in order to cut two of the three lines of communication from the west to Vegas, you have to access the ways into Vegas from the west, and there are indeed three

90 from the northwest, 160 from the west, and the long 15 from the south

The Divide MUST be Pahrump Nevada at the 60-372 junctions. "Hopeville" has a north-south highway and an east junction, it's the only place in Nevada that has it and the only place in California that could be a choke point for Vegas Death Valley Junction doesn't work because you can easily bypass it through Pahrump to get to Vegas

SO the Divide and it's barrier need to choke off the other means of getting to Vegas, from 95 to the North coming south from Reno/Carson City and that junction is within 30-40 miles of Pahrump.

Now we have to talk as to WHY the Big EMpty is the Big empty, it's never elaborated on but I don't think it's a shield wall, that would cause too much curiosity, I think it's an electric dead zone where power armor, pipboys, vehicle engines, and the like stop working. That's why Bug U and Elijah could easily find their way to Big MT, they were willing to hoof it and had superior stealth skills.

Now what they mean is that Sierra Madre under normal circumstances could be stopped by aerial recon easily given the cloud, but if it's within the big MT dead zone, it could go unreported for a LONG time

For my money, your best bet for the logistics base for both Big MT and the Sierra Madre, at least during the construction of those facilities is Mercury Nevada. It's a closed village with a functioning airport, which would be important for the guests of the Sierra Madre, in fact there's a nearly perfect bowl shaped depression ringed by mountains directly northwest of Mercury on Google Maps.
36°54'57.4"N 116°18'10.9"W

 

[Atomic Postman]

This was a weird one for me, I remember in the intro to the dlc there were steppes and a canyon with a river. I guess this was the implied surrounding location of the casino?

Problem is there are no steppes like that south of New Vegas, nor East, and not North.

We have to assume the Casino is located to the West of New Vegas in the mountains. It must Either be North or South of the Divide. Most likely it is North because it probably would have been discovered by the NCR if it was in the South. The fact that the player is not able to return despite the impressive satellite mapping power of his Pip-boy is puzzling to say the least.

How many months does it take for the travel from the casino back to the Mojave? I know it took a few months to travel back and forth between the Divide and the Mojave. Such a great distance away though, why would Sinclair make his casino out in the middle of fucking nowhere? The answer is self apparent I guess.

Anyways if the casino was intended to be a survivalist city why was it placed in mountains like those? There are a great many missile silos in that part of the US. North of Interstate 15 is government "off limits" land in real life. That would make the Divide a plausible location for a massive missile complex.

Question is why would Frederick Sinclair make his fortress in the middle of a nuclear strike zone?

A bigger question is why is the Pip-Boy not able to navigate back to the Casino despite friggen mapping abilities?
Edit: Sentence forming mistake
Edit: Retard alert the Rocky mountains are not west of Las Vegas

To my mind the DLC locations are slightly indicated by their entry point's location on the map. Honest Hearts Northern Passage correlating to the Long-15 route up to Zion, the Lonesome Road Caravan Wreckage correlating roughly to the Death Valley/Highway 127 area and the Crashed Satellite of OWB correlates to its logical location of Mt. Kingston (Big Empty was formerly a mountain close to the Divide and forms a wall next to the Long 15), sorta.

Therefore I'd wager that the Sierra Madre is east of the Mojave, in Arizona. Due to the location of its entry point via the abandoned BoS bunker. We know that it takes Dog/God 3 days to carry the Courier that direction, and the only indication of the Madre's location is a photo in the intro-slides that looks like this

I would wager that the Sierra Madre is somewhere in the vicinity/region of the Grand Canyon. We are told in Dead Money itself that the Madre was extremely inaccessible, to the point you couldn't really drive your car there because it was so tight to navigate. That seems to fit the canyonland bill pretty well, no?Likely not in the Grand Canyon itself due to the Legion's history, but probably somewhere in the vicinity of Hualapai Indian Reservation. Would make sense why Ulysses is the one who knows where it is and tells Elijah, being an Arizona tracker.

 

[Morgan_]

Wtf, these places are real. I always just thought it was Vegas and the lake/dam and then everything else was added in for the game itself. Cool.

Spoiler: Fallout: Real Vegas

Goodsprings is also geographically accurate and even has the fucking school. Imagine going to that school and playing NV.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Wtf, these places are real. I always just thought it was Vegas and the lake/dam and then everything else was added in for the game itself. Cool.

Spoiler: Fallout: Real Vegas

View attachment 19489


View attachment 19491

View attachment 19492

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View attachment 19494

Goodsprings is also geographically accurate and even has the fucking school. Imagine going to that school and playing NV.

View attachment 19496

I think I've mentioned it on here but I did a Fallout roadtrip Noah-Caldwell-Gervais style and I've had lunch inside the IRL Prospector Saloon. It's cool.

Hoover Dam was smaller than I was expecting. Seems crazy as the locale for a vast battle.

 

[Morgan_]

Also, Doc Mitchell's house is real. It's actually there.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I've always been under the impression that the Sierra Madre was located somewhere in one of the winding side valleys of the Grand Canyon, though I must admit I've always found this location quite unpleasing - afterall, the Grand Canyon is the core of Caesar's Legion. If Caesar was profoundly disturbed by a door that looked like this -

I feel like he would have devoted a little more time/energy to the permanent cloud of corrossive lingering gas practically down the block from him.

I did an analysis of the DLC locations based on the roadmaps and the conclusion I came to that in order to cut two of the three lines of communication from the west to Vegas, you have to access the ways into Vegas from the west, and there are indeed three

90 from the northwest, 160 from the west, and the long 15 from the south

The Divide MUST be Pahrump Nevada at the 60-372 junctions. "Hopeville" has a north-south highway and an east junction, it's the only place in Nevada that has it and the only place in California that could be a choke point for Vegas Death Valley Junction doesn't work because you can easily bypass it through Pahrump to get to Vegas

SO the Divide and it's barrier need to choke off the other means of getting to Vegas, from 95 to the North coming south from Reno/Carson City and that junction is within 30-40 miles of Pahrump.

Agreed, the Divide is obviously roughly equivalent to Pahrump and environs, it just fits too well. The angle of approach of the Highway Wreckage from Primm is obviously pointing northwest towards Pahrump. The geography of Pahrump is also correct - its surrounded by mountains on both sides, much like the Divide, and it makes perfect sense as a strategic chokepoint. From Shady Sands, it offers an alternative route to Vegas either passing through Death Valley (though I find this unlikely, I imagine that Death Valley is basically impassable post-War) or going north up route 6 and then down 95. There's even a ghost town called Ashton nearby and along route 95.

But finally what I consider to be absolutely incontrovertible evidence is this piece of cut graffiti -

"Avenge Pahrump." Combined with the above geographical evidence, and the fact that Pahrump is not mentioned in any other context in the game making it odd to include it and raises the question of what exactly is being avenged, it seems pretty clear to me that this was originally intended to be one of the many DLC-tease graffiti in the game.

As to why it was cut, my guess is that originally Hopeville was going to explicitly be called Pahrump, but it was changed to Hopeville/Ashton to make it more mysterious, cooler sounding, and most importantly to allow for some geographic fudging.

Now we have to talk as to WHY the Big EMpty is the Big empty, it's never elaborated on but I don't think it's a shield wall, that would cause too much curiosity, I think it's an electric dead zone where power armor, pipboys, vehicle engines, and the like stop working. That's why Bug U and Elijah could easily find their way to Big MT, they were willing to hoof it and had superior stealth skills.

I like this idea a lot. It's pretty clear to me that Big MT has a significant 'pale' beyond the mountain itself, since the way people talk about it it seems to be a wasteland unto itself. So there being an electric dead zone surrounding the shield wall is a good explanation.

For my money, your best bet for the logistics base for both Big MT and the Sierra Madre, at least during the construction of those facilities is Mercury Nevada. It's a closed village with a functioning airport, which would be important for the guests of the Sierra Madre, in fact there's a nearly perfect bowl shaped depression ringed by mountains directly northwest of Mercury on Google Maps.
36°54'57.4"N 116°18'10.9"W

Interesting guess, but I have to disagree - it seems to me that the only role that serves in blocking off travel is blocking off Route 95, but that's already accomplished by Ashville-Hopeton.

For my money, the Big Empty is somewhere further north in Nevada, likely on the Nevada Testy Site, and it blocks off US Route 6/State Route 375, which would indeed provide a circuitous alternative route to Las Vegas.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I've always been under the impression that the Sierra Madre was located somewhere in one of the winding side valleys of the Grand Canyon, though I must admit I've always found this location quite unpleasing - afterall, the Grand Canyon is the core of Caesar's Legion. If Caesar was profoundly disturbed by a door that looked like this -

View attachment 19501

I feel like he would have devoted a little more time/energy to the permanent cloud of corrossive lingering gas practically down the block from him.


Agreed, the Divide is obviously roughly equivalent to Pahrump and environs, it just fits too well. The angle of approach of the Highway Wreckage from Primm is obviously pointing northwest towards Pahrump. The geography of Pahrump is also correct - its surrounded by mountains on both sides, much like the Divide, and it makes perfect sense as a strategic chokepoint. From Shady Sands, it offers an alternative route to Vegas either passing through Death Valley (though I find this unlikely, I imagine that Death Valley is basically impassable post-War) or going north up route 6 and then down 95. There's even a ghost town called Ashton nearby and along route 95.

But finally what I consider to be absolutely incontrovertible evidence is this piece of cut graffiti -

View attachment 19502

"Avenge Pahrump." Combined with the above geographical evidence, and the fact that Pahrump is not mentioned in any other context in the game making it odd to include it and raises the question of what exactly is being avenged, it seems pretty clear to me that this was originally intended to be one of the many DLC-tease graffiti in the game.

As to why it was cut, my guess is that originally Hopeville was going to explicitly be called Pahrump, but it was changed to Hopeville/Ashton to make it more mysterious, cooler sounding, and most importantly to allow for some geographic fudging.


I like this idea a lot. It's pretty clear to me that Big MT has a significant 'pale' beyond the mountain itself, since the way people talk about it it seems to be a wasteland unto itself. So there being an electric dead zone surrounding the shield wall is a good explanation.


Interesting guess, but I have to disagree - it seems to me that the only role that serves in blocking off travel is blocking off Route 95, but that's already accomplished by Ashville-Hopeton.

For my money, the Big Empty is somewhere further north in Nevada, likely on the Nevada Testy Site, and it blocks off US Route 6/State Route 375, which would indeed provide a circuitous alternative route to Las Vegas.

I would say that the Sierra Madre in Legion territory makes sense in that firstly, Ulysses is the only person we know of that actually knew the location of the Madre (as that's where he directed Elijah) and him being a tracker for the Twisted Hairs and later the Legion, it makes sense that he'd know every dark depth of the Arizona canyonlands.

Similarly, the Legion's disinterest in it is similarly explained to how Graham described the Legion reporting the Big Empty as a wall - i.e it's useless for our purposes and an obvious danger - "Here Be Dragons" marked on the map.

I like the deadzone theory for Big Empty but my read - due to Christine's shock that something is actually in the Big Empty - was that it was basically just considered barren, hot, difficult to traverse nothingness with a big scary crater (assumedly nuclear). Unless you're someone with a purpose it's a no go. Even then, random wanderers are picked up and made into Lobotomites.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I would say that the Sierra Madre in Legion territory makes sense in that firstly, Ulysses is the only person we know of that actually knew the location of the Madre (as that's where he directed Elijah) and him being a tracker for the Twisted Hairs and later the Legion, it makes sense that he'd know every dark depth of the Arizona canyonlands.

Similarly, the Legion's disinterest in it is similarly explained to how Graham described the Legion reporting the Big Empty as a wall - i.e it's useless for our purposes and an obvious danger - "Here Be Dragons" marked on the map.

Yeah, it's believable enough I guess since neither the Cloud nor the Ghost People really stray, and looking from the outside in there probably isn't really any way to tell there's anything interesting.

Though now I'm wondering - is it ever fully explained how Dog, Elijah, or Ulysses found there way in to the Sierra Madre?

I like the deadzone theory for Big Empty but my read - due to Christine's shock that something is actually in the Big Empty - was that it was basically just considered barren, hot, difficult to traverse nothingness with a big scary crater (assumedly nuclear). Unless you're someone with a purpose it's a no go. Even then, random wanderers are picked up and made into Lobotomites.

For me, the term 'Big Empty' seems to connote a wasteland, and for it to be even worth mentioning I feel like there must be empty space around the crater, not just the crater itself. But I would agree with you, natural factors (heat and desolation) are probably the biggest factors... but for me, that describes pretty well south-central Nevada, a big empty wasteland even today, with the added benefit that there is genuinely a lot of government testing going on IRL there, including Area 51.

I just like the electronic disturbance theory because there are plenty of stretches of desert that are very empty, so this just adds something on top of it to discourage travel.



Here's a little side thought I just had. If we accept that Pahrump-Crystal is roughly the same as Hopeville Ashton with a little geographic fudgery, it's sort of interesting to note that Mt. Charleston (Jacobstown) is very, very nearby - its closer to the Divide as the crow flies than NCR Outpost is to Vegas. It must've been a pretty big deal when the Divide detonated to the Jacobstown mutants.

First I wondered if maybe it was possible that this was part of the reason why Jacobstown was established where it was - some lingering radiation from the nearby blast made it attractive to the Super Mutants. But then a further thought struck me - being so near by, what's stopping the Super Mutants from just moving into the nearby heavily irradaited Divide?

Well, the obvious answer is the Tunnelers and the Marked Men, though I honestly don't think the storms would be that big a hurdle given their resiliency. Well, many fans argue that actually since the Courier killed the tunneler queen the problem is actually over with (I tend to think this is wishful thinking and that was merely A tunneler queen, but lets go with it.) Further, the Courier's path of destruction combined with the final battle have probably done a pretty good number on the Marked Men's fighting capacity. So it could be free real estate - heavily irradiated, geographically protected by mountains, meteorologically protected, and strategically vital. Plus, there's a fuck ton of high military tech, and maybe even some nukes left over. Super Mutants could establish a colony there, along with ghouls, and either raid passing caravans out of it and retreat into it, or act as middle men, the only ones able to ferry goods through the Divide.

Also combine with that that very, very nearby is Yucca Mountain - the Super Mutants could crack that baby open and irradiate a fuck ton of land to create a further security blanket and zone of colonization beyond the Divide proper. Also very nearby are several potential locations for the Big MT - @Atomic Postman's identification with Kingston Peak, and @Charwo's Shoshone Mountains valley. A mutant super state in the making?

Here's a little mock up.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Yeah, it's believable enough I guess since neither the Cloud nor the Ghost People really stray, and looking from the outside in there probably isn't really any way to tell there's anything interesting.

Though now I'm wondering - is it ever fully explained how Dog, Elijah, or Ulysses found there way in to the Sierra Madre?


For me, the term 'Big Empty' seems to connote a wasteland, and for it to be even worth mentioning I feel like there must be empty space around the crater, not just the crater itself. But I would agree with you, natural factors (heat and desolation) are probably the biggest factors... but for me, that describes pretty well south-central Nevada, a big empty wasteland even today, with the added benefit that there is genuinely a lot of government testing going on IRL there, including Area 51.

I just like the electronic disturbance theory because there are plenty of stretches of desert that are very empty, so this just adds something on top of it to discourage travel.



Here's a little side thought I just had. If we accept that Pahrump-Crystal is roughly the same as Hopeville Ashton with a little geographic fudgery, it's sort of interesting to note that Mt. Charleston (Jacobstown) is very, very nearby - its closer to the Divide as the crow flies than NCR Outpost is to Vegas. It must've been a pretty big deal when the Divide detonated to the Jacobstown mutants.

First I wondered if maybe it was possible that this was part of the reason why Jacobstown was established where it was - some lingering radiation from the nearby blast made it attractive to the Super Mutants. But then a further thought struck me - being so near by, what's stopping the Super Mutants from just moving into the nearby heavily irradaited Divide?

Well, the obvious answer is the Tunnelers and the Marked Men, though I honestly don't think the storms would be that big a hurdle given their resiliency. Well, many fans argue that actually since the Courier killed the tunneler queen the problem is actually over with (I tend to think this is wishful thinking and that was merely A tunneler queen, but lets go with it.) Further, the Courier's path of destruction combined with the final battle have probably done a pretty good number on the Marked Men's fighting capacity. So it could be free real estate - heavily irradiated, geographically protected by mountains, meteorologically protected, and strategically vital. Plus, there's a fuck ton of high military tech, and maybe even some nukes left over. Super Mutants could establish a colony there, along with ghouls, and either raid passing caravans out of it and retreat into it, or act as middle men, the only ones able to ferry goods through the Divide.

Also combine with that that very, very nearby is Yucca Mountain - the Super Mutants could crack that baby open and irradiate a fuck ton of land to create a further security blanket and zone of colonization beyond the Divide proper. Also very nearby are several potential locations for the Big MT - @Atomic Postman's identification with Kingston Peak, and @Charwo's Shoshone Mountains valley. A mutant super state in the making?

Here's a little mock up.

View attachment 19503

As for how people got to the Madre. From what we know, Ulysses told Elijah and then Elijah started the whole saga of hooking people in.

I also agree with you that Big MT is likely in southern Nevada, perhaps the Fallout world's version of Area 51 (since we have zero reference to it outside of a non canonical special encounter ). The Big Empty makes sense as being there too since the surrounding territory is likely very, very empty whereas the region surrounding Mt. Kingston is most definitely not. It also explains perfectly why Highway 95 is not a route for the NCR - it tracks through the Big Empty. That's the "wall" Graham was talking about.

As for the Super Mutants - from my recollection they don't receive any benefit from radiation, only immunity. Jacobstown is a lovely, cool aired pastoral locale. The Divide is hell on Earth, radiation or no. If I was picking a retirement home for mutants, I'd pick somewhere nice.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

As for the Super Mutants - from my recollection they don't receive any benefit from radiation, only immunity. Jacobstown is a lovely, cool aired pastoral locale. The Divide is hell on Earth, radiation or no. If I was picking a retirement home for mutants, I'd pick somewhere nice.

I wasn't suggesting a benefit, only that they would survive just fine whereas normies would be almost incapable of messing with them. But yeah, Jacobstown makes more sense since other than like cave fungus you couldn't grow any food, though they could trade/raid for it

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

As for how people got to the Madre. From what we know, Ulysses told Elijah and then Elijah started the whole saga of hooking people in.

Well Elijah’s only been there for a few years, and I was under the impression that the “legend of the Sierra Madre” has been around for quite awhile. I’ll have to look through Dean Domino’s dialogue, but I seem to remember him saying that adventurers had been coming for a long time, but the bomb collars were a recent development.

 

[Morgan_]

https://earth.google.com/web/search...iMx_iVBQBGnxGrWYwRBQBm__bC_sX9dwCF4tds5notdwA

Found it last night.

 

[JustAShcookius]

Yeah, it's believable enough I guess since neither the Cloud nor the Ghost People really stray, and looking from the outside in there probably isn't really any way to tell there's anything interesting.

Though now I'm wondering - is it ever fully explained how Dog, Elijah, or Ulysses found there way in to the Sierra Madre?


For me, the term 'Big Empty' seems to connote a wasteland, and for it to be even worth mentioning I feel like there must be empty space around the crater, not just the crater itself. But I would agree with you, natural factors (heat and desolation) are probably the biggest factors... but for me, that describes pretty well south-central Nevada, a big empty wasteland even today, with the added benefit that there is genuinely a lot of government testing going on IRL there, including Area 51.

I just like the electronic disturbance theory because there are plenty of stretches of desert that are very empty, so this just adds something on top of it to discourage travel.



Here's a little side thought I just had. If we accept that Pahrump-Crystal is roughly the same as Hopeville Ashton with a little geographic fudgery, it's sort of interesting to note that Mt. Charleston (Jacobstown) is very, very nearby - its closer to the Divide as the crow flies than NCR Outpost is to Vegas. It must've been a pretty big deal when the Divide detonated to the Jacobstown mutants.

First I wondered if maybe it was possible that this was part of the reason why Jacobstown was established where it was - some lingering radiation from the nearby blast made it attractive to the Super Mutants. But then a further thought struck me - being so near by, what's stopping the Super Mutants from just moving into the nearby heavily irradaited Divide?

Well, the obvious answer is the Tunnelers and the Marked Men, though I honestly don't think the storms would be that big a hurdle given their resiliency. Well, many fans argue that actually since the Courier killed the tunneler queen the problem is actually over with (I tend to think this is wishful thinking and that was merely A tunneler queen, but lets go with it.) Further, the Courier's path of destruction combined with the final battle have probably done a pretty good number on the Marked Men's fighting capacity. So it could be free real estate - heavily irradiated, geographically protected by mountains, meteorologically protected, and strategically vital. Plus, there's a fuck ton of high military tech, and maybe even some nukes left over. Super Mutants could establish a colony there, along with ghouls, and either raid passing caravans out of it and retreat into it, or act as middle men, the only ones able to ferry goods through the Divide.

Also combine with that that very, very nearby is Yucca Mountain - the Super Mutants could crack that baby open and irradiate a fuck ton of land to create a further security blanket and zone of colonization beyond the Divide proper. Also very nearby are several potential locations for the Big MT - @Atomic Postman's identification with Kingston Peak, and @Charwo's Shoshone Mountains valley. A mutant super state in the making?

Here's a little mock up.

View attachment 19503

So, Death Valley is canonically a deadzone? Completely impassable to even the most determined of explorers? Hell, NCR sure has a wide defense from the Legion in that case.

One thing that has kinda bothered me; what is sustaining the eternal storm above the Divide? Big Empty does not appear to be controlling it, and what we do know about it states that it was some kind of failed experiment. Logic suggests that a failed experiment is usually disposed of or deactivated by a good scientist.

I like to think the Divide was an early test for a system present at Hidden Valley bunker. A defense against eyes and scanning devices. I wonder if there is a bunker somewhere close to the Divide with a functioning power source that is sustaining the storm. Who knows...

There was a terminal that complained about underground tremors and earthquakes in the Divide. I'd like to think there was some important tidbit there, but I didn't notice anything that complimented the terminal.

While we are talking about a eternal meteorological event, I could ask the same question about the Sierra Madre. The Cloud seemingly has the ability to reproduce itself and grow in a way. It acts eerily like a living thing for some reason. The Cloud originated from the Madre's extensive ventilation system and can be held back by fans to a large extent.

What the hell is down there? A bunker? A top secret Big Empty deployment facility? Is that where the Ghost People retreat to when not "hunting". Supposedly there are a staggeringly large number of Ghost Persons "around" the Madre. There must be some extensive service tunnels and underground places for them to chill and do Ghost Person things right?

Also there is a fucking ABYSS in the Sierra Madre Vault:

...which kinda lends credence to there being much more underground infrastructure to the Madre than meets the eye or is ever revealed.

Unpopular opinion: The DLC was better than the base game. I never experienced the same amount of loneliness, nostalgia, depression and awe in any of the other games except OG Fallout.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

So, Death Valley is canonically a deadzone? Completely impassable to even the most determined of explorers? Hell, NCR sure has a wide defense from the Legion in that case.

I must admit, we don't know that much about Death Valley, so it's kind of fanon on my part, but I iamgine it to be utterly inhospitable, possibly swept by the same storms that wrack the Divide. Basically, this is the apocalypse, so it stands to reason (or feeling, I guess) that it should be even more inhospitable to human life.

There was a terminal that complained about underground tremors and earthquakes in the Divide. I'd like to think there was some important tidbit there, but I didn't notice anything that complimented the terminal.

I always read this as being a reference to Yucca Mountain, which is fairly nearby. Yucca Mountain was slated to be the waste disposal site for all US waste up to a few years ago, but it was cancelled by public protest partly on account of the purported geologic instability of the area. I read the protests in Hopeville against the nuclear silos as being a reference to this.

Alternatively, if you buy into Ulysses' theory that the tunnelers may predate the War, then it could be a reference to something lurking below.

What the hell is down there? A bunker? A top secret Big Empty deployment facility? Is that where the Ghost People retreat to when not "hunting". Supposedly there are a staggeringly large number of Ghost Persons "around" the Madre. There must be some extensive service tunnels and underground places for them to chill and do Ghost Person things right?

Also there is a fucking ABYSS in the Sierra Madre Vault:
View attachment 19548
...which kinda lends credence to there being much more underground infrastructure to the Madre than meets the eye or is ever revealed.

Good points

 

[Charwo]

I must admit, we don't know that much about Death Valley, so it's kind of fanon on my part, but I imagine it to be utterly inhospitable, possibly swept by the same storms that wrack the Divide. Basically, this is the apocalypse, so it stands to reason (or feeling, I guess) that it should be even more inhospitable to human life.

That's not how radiation, natural phenomena or the apocalypse work. The Divide is maintained as such by shitty mad scientist equipment at the Big Empty, probably unique to the world, certainly unique the southwest. If you were to nuke the equipment at Big MT, the weather would clear up in the Divide in a matter of hours. Remember this flow was required for Big U to track down the Crater in the first place.

Death Valley CANNOT be a dead Zone, if it were, the Divide would be useless because highway 160 coming into Clark county east goes right through Death Valley and through Parhump (which is almost certainly the Divide). Furthermore, the same track also splits to feed further north into 95, which enters Clark county from the northwest, which you might remember with the big ol bomb crater full of water which I assure you is just there for gameplay purposes.

Also, given Vault 13 is under Mt. Whitney as seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...7dad12cf276cbf2!8m2!3d36.5784991!4d-118.29226

Vault 15 is definitely in Death Valley and Shady Sands is if not in Death Valley, right in in it.

Death Valley is not a Death Zone, it's just hard to traverse for all the historical reasons:
1. It's hot as fuck (hottest place in Noth America, hottest place on earth outside of asscracks of Lybia)
2. It's sparsely populated, thus easy for bandits to set up shop
3. Potentially hostile wildlife, which now could include both nightstalkers and the occasional deathclaw
4. Bad water, even when not radioactive
5. It's hot as fuck.

If you're in a truck or train, it's no issue, but it's you're in a wagon or on foot, it's...not gonna be fun.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

I would imagine that Death Valley is even hotter than it was before the war, turning it from almost inhospitable to completely inhospitable.

 

[Charwo]

I would imagine that Death Valley is even hotter than it was before the war, turning it from almost inhospitable to completely inhospitable.

Why?
Nothing has changed as far as Earth's climate. Besides, if it were completely inhospitable all western approaches to Vegas would be kaput. At the very least the Long 15 would only be open in the winter months. All three of the western approaches to Clark County IRL run through or right by Death Valley. Now there are bypasses through Carson City and Crystal Springs but that DOESN'T work for power. Now water goes through the Colorado River Adequduct which is well south of Death Valley but the Power lines? those go through Vegas....and unless the power is coming through continuously recharged fusion batteries that are shipped back to the west coast via rail....their still gonna have to service power lines through Death Valley.

 

[Ugly Kid]

Why?
Nothing has changed as far as Earth's climate. Besides, if it were completely inhospitable all western approaches to Vegas would be kaput. At the very least the Long 15 would only be open in the winter months. All three of the western approaches to Clark County IRL run through or right by Death Valley. Now there are bypasses through Carson City and Crystal Springs but that DOESN'T work for power. Now water goes through the Colorado River Adequduct which is well south of Death Valley but the Power lines? those go through Vegas....and unless the power is coming through continuously recharged fusion batteries that are shipped back to the west coast via rail....their still gonna have to service power lines through Death Valley.

The climate has definitely changed drastically, for one the desert stretches out into much of the midwest due to extreme heat, entire counties on the west coast have been flooded due to rising sea levels, most plant life in the desert has seemingly vanished, I don't think it's much of a stretch that Death Valley becomes inhospitable.

 

[Charwo]

The climate has definitely changed drastically, for one the desert stretches out into much of the midwest due to extreme heat, entire counties on the west coast have been flooded due to rising sea levels, most plant life in the desert has seemingly vanished, I don't think it's much of a stretch that Death Valley becomes inhospitable.

Yeah, they say this, they show this, they don't support any of this, they just expect this to be accepted by authorial fiat without examining what would cause this to actually happen and what its effects would be in total. It's thematic and thus dishonest storytelling