Where to get a gun (for other RPGs)

[Hassknecht]

I have yet to play Age of Decadence, but it's on my list. Sorta post-apocalyptic Rome? Awesome.

 

[Crni Vuk]

No doubt there were swords used against plate successfully, they needed a stabbing action to work.

As I understand, 2 handed swords lasted all the way to pike and gun formations, their sheer momentum and force I guess, worked against plate as well as a heavy axe would.

As far as I know, the two hand sword was not developed to deal with armor, but with enemy formations. This is what german mercenaries used it for, another common word for the twohand sword was 'Gassenhauer' which I think translates more or less to creating pathways or alleys, which describes what it was used for on the battlefield creating disaray on the first line at the front. The name for those mercenaries was 'doppelsöldner' which is an indication that they received the double of the usual payment for mercenaries since they had a very dangerous task beeing always in the first row.
I doubt that a two hand sword would be really more effective against heavy plate armor compared to a usual one hand sword, knights sword or the like, since the weight difference is really not that large so you can't create a lot more of momentum, however what you really get as advantage is simply reach.

Ironically spears are one of the nastiest weapons you can weild in reality.

Its akin to basically having a melee range oversized bow and arrow.

The actuall advantage of a spear is the fact that every fucking peasant can wield one and that it's easy to make, hence why it made the bulk of pretty much any army for such a long time and even saw use as hellbeard and other similar weapons for quite some time. It really is just a staff with a pointy end, most of the time from some hard material. The reach gives it a distinctive advantage to sword wielders, who not only have to get a high quality sword but also require a hell lot of training to use it effectively in combat.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

As far as I know, the two hand sword was not developed to deal with armor, but with enemy formations. This is what german mercenaries used it for, another common word for the twohand sword was 'Gassenhauer' which I think translates more or less to creating pathways or alleys, which describes what it was used for on the battlefield creating disaray on the first line at the front. The name for those mercenaries was 'doppelsöldner' which is an indication that they received the double of the usual payment for mercenaries since they had a very dangerous task beeing always in the first row.
I doubt that a two hand sword would be really more effective against heavy plate armor compared to a usual one hand sword, knights sword or the like, since the weight difference is really not that large so you can't create a lot more of momentum, however what you really get as advantage is simply reach.

Wasn't made to deal with armour, of course, guns and penetrating weapons were made for that (or hammers/maces).

From the looks of things, two handed swords became popular due to reach, and greater power over a normal sword (due to leverage and such, tip of the sword will be going a lot faster, more weight, however slight, and two hands).

As I understand it, mercenaries using 2 handed swords were used against pike formations when the formations broke, to 'mop up' stragglers and such.

For some reason, some people think that they were used to cut pikes apart... *Facepalms*

The actuall advantage of a spear is the fact that every fucking peasant can wield one and that it's easy to make, hence why it made the bulk of pretty much any army for such a long time and even saw use as hellbeard and other similar weapons for quite some time. It really is just a staff with a pointy end, most of the time from some hard material. The reach gives it a distinctive advantage to sword wielders, who not only have to get a high quality sword but also require a hell lot of training to use it effectively in combat.

Well, that too. Cheapness and ease of use are lovely with spears.

But don't underestimate the penetration of a spear vs a sword, combined with its higher level of agility.

A spear can be used at any range, by holding it closer/further from the haft, making it into a makeshift punch-dagger at point blank if you need (or spanking them with the spear head if you want).

And if you're facing anyone in any level of armour, a strong jab with a spear is a lot more likely to actually hurt/kill the person, than a sword blow.

Then again, apart from spears, I love warhammers the most... XD

 

[Crni Vuk]

Eh Skallagrim did once a bit of testing with two hand and one hand swords and his conclussion was the difference in power wasn't that huge, almost null. Not that he is some kind of history professional who has the answer for everthing and it was far from a scientific test, but it doesn't seem like two hand swords are that much more powerfull compared to the other choices, not to mention that almost every sword was used as a halfsword or bastardsword anyway.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Eh Skallagrim did once a bit of testing with two hand and one hand swords and his conclussion was the difference in power wasn't that huge, almost null. Not that he is some kind of history professional who has the answer for everthing and it was far from a scientific test, but it doesn't seem like two hand swords are that much more powerfull compared to the other choices, not to mention that almost every sword was used as a halfsword or bastardsword anyway.

Well, until the invention of plate armour, most swords were used with one hand, with a shield as the other hand.

When plate armour was around, swords were basically always halfsworded, yep. ;D

Skallagrim is a pretty awesome youtuber, but I'm not quite sure if he's 100% accurate.

I think he panders a little bit, here and there.

 

[Black Angel]

Afraid I have never heard of either.

ZenoGuy doesn't hear much about good games, because they get basically no marketing...

Maybe you should stop being Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant. I guess.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Maybe you should stop being Residential Sexy Anthro Goddess...Mutant. I guess.

;(

Don't judge me!

 

[Walpknut]

Persona 5 has guns, and you fight demons with them, but they have limited ammo capacity per dungeon crawling session.

 

[eissa]

Well, until the invention of plate armour, most swords were used with one hand, with a shield as the other hand

hmm...hand a half sword/bastard sword and some earlier greatsword appear far much earlier before plate armor take in place on battlefield particulary the Oakeshott type XIII and XIV. The tip of the blade do become narrower to suit the need of its piercing capability in later period (at least after 1366)

A single arrow which penetrates is comparable to a single blow of a melee weapon, but the chance of being repeatedly penetrated by an arrow is unlikely.

Arrows mostly cause their damage from either bleeding, or the lucky penetration to a major organ (VERY unlikely if it goes through even a bog-standard gamberson and chain armour, yet alone plate)

Infection is a nasty thing which caused many deaths by arrows, but its way too slow to be reliable in a fight.

A dude with 5 arrows partially stuck into him can potentially still fight and charge ahead, a dude with 5 mace blows is probably wondering where some of his bones went.

Poison arrows/Dirty arrows were used, but I don't really see any statistics that it was particularly common, normally dirty weapons were frowned upon in medieval warfare (like bloody swords and such).

an arrow is a large sharp object and, unlike a gunshot wound such as from low velo musket, continued abrasion from inside the wound can and will further aggravate the wound that it made. An arrow stuck and basically Any movement on your part that involves the area around the arrow wound will bring more pain and possibly cut you more. And if the arrow hit you anywhere besides the butt or maybe the back, then it's going to be a major problem fighting with it. The protrusion is a significant obstacle to any kind of effective swinging, stabbing, running, riding, etc.
Most arrow were aimed at torso, sometime a soldier would get hit in his arm or leg but like i said above it would become a hindrance to his fighting capability. The bad thing, Torso is home to major vital organ of the body. either your lung or your abdomen. Unlike sword or mace, an archer could do this from distance.

A sharpened longpoint bodkin arrow could even penetrate the best gambeson and some earlier unriveted mail
Here is a sheet on how Medieval armors stacked up against Halberd blades, lances and arrows(the ammount of energy needed to penetrate them) from Knight and Blast Furnace by Alan Williams.(Keep in mind Roman mail was heavier and had smaller links than Medieval mail)

On 1.9mm Wrought Iron munitions Plate armor(about the same thickness of Lorica Segmentata when not overlapped)(without padding btw)


>190 J from Blade
>100 J from Lance
>75/80 joules from an arrow

Mild-Steel Mail with Linen padding(16 layers)

>200 J from blade
>200 J from lance
-80 J from arrow pierced the mail, 100 J ripped through the padding completley.

Low carbon steel Mail with Linen padding(16 layers)
-170 J from blade
-140 J from lance
-Arrow result was same as Mild steel.

Linen Jack of 16 layers

-80 J from blade
-50 J from lance

In the mail test 80 J arrow pierced the mail+Linen. It only took 20 more J to rip though the 16 layers of Linen completley. Buff leather(hide) was no better against arrows since it only to a 30 J arrows got through.

Poison arrows/Dirty arrows were used, but I don't really see any statistics that it was particularly common, normally dirty weapons were frowned upon in medieval warfare (like bloody swords and such)

There is a Byzantine source describing the Slavs as making use of poisoned arrows.

...he quotes the 6th century Roman Emperor Maurice.

"The Slavs use the bows with short poisoned arrows. If the injured did not drink the antidote before… should immediately cut the wound around, preventing the spread of the poison… ”

The Dacians (and even the medieval Moldovans) commonly employed poisoned arrows against their enemies. Maurikios also stated that the Slavs and Antes used poisoned arrows. The poison was drawn from the poisonous venom of vipers that live in the Carpathian mountains.

Another Byzantine source suggesting the use of poisoned arrows is Leo VI's Taktika. From Osprey's "Romano-Byzantine Armies 4th-9th Centuries

"Leo VI's Taktika advised Byzantine archers to use poisoned arrows against the Muslims' horses, a tactic which may have been adopted from the Slavs."

The african archer from mali empire and nubian kingdom also known to employ poisoned arrow and javelin. The mali archer for example, inflicted a series of defeats against the Portuguese at when they defended against the raid on the Senegambian coast in 1444. Nubian archer famously defeat arab fast cavalry with the help of poisoned arrow and superior marksmanship

 

[Crni Vuk]

Are you sure you're born in the right century?