Why do the Bobrov brothers have accents?

I meant fusion, my bad,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion
Fusion is also nuclear power..... what are they teaching people in school these days?

Fusion power can't have runaway/chain reactions, though. Disturb the system a little and the fusion reaction will stop.
But that doesn't really matter, anyway. Cars that explode in a radioactive mushroom cloud after being damaged a tiny bit is not something that should happen, it's just silly.

/edit: Apparently I need to explain that. See, cars are usually used by living people, and often around living people. Most of these people like staying alive. A crash on the highway leading to a chainreaction of nuclear explosions makes living a bit harder, and even though the world of Fallout downplays the effects of nuclear explosions the actual effect we see in the game is too ridiculous to believe. Not even the most reckless crazy idiot engineers in the world of Fallout would approve of cars that go supercritical when they get a little dent. Not that nuclear reactors do that, anyway, because a runaway nuclear reaction is surprisingly hard to achieve.
 
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I meant fusion, my bad,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion
Fusion is also nuclear power..... what are they teaching people in school these days?

Is fusion the same as fission for you? - By the way, our Hass here is the one with the education in physics, just saying.

It simply should never end up in such explosions.
Why should a nuclear generator not explode into a mushroom cloud, the iconic shape of nuclear explosions?
Because not even Tschernobyle ended up like that? - Funny enough, it was actually a giant oxyhydrogen explosion, if I remember it correctly.

Seriously, let us not split hairs here, I am not in the mood of searching all over google just to find that technical mumbo jumbo to explain what critical mass means and why it is not achieved just by "exploding" some nuclear material - no matter if fusion or fission. Let us just say that it is not enough to just strap some explosives on a uranium or what ever to create a nuclear mushroom cloud.
 
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Is fusion the same as fission for you?

Because not even Tschernobyle ended up like that?
No, I was simply pointing out that both are forms of nuclear power.

You mean Chernobyl? anyways, that is a fallacious example because, again, Fallout is not based on real world science, but rather the skewed perception of nuclear power as view by 1950's America.

/edit: Apparently I need to explain that. See, cars are usually used by living people, and often around living people. Most of these people like staying alive. A crash on the highway leading to a chainreaction of nuclear explosions makes living a bit harder, and even though the world of Fallout downplays the effects of nuclear explosions the actual effect we see in the game is too ridiculous to believe. Not even the most reckless crazy idiot engineers in the world of Fallout would approve of cars that go supercritical when they get a little dent. Not that nuclear reactors do that, anyway, because a runaway nuclear reaction is surprisingly hard to achieve.
And no sane engineer would design a Mr Handy robot the way we see it in fallout 1, 2, 3, NV, or 4 either. Those things are literal deathtraps by any real world measure.

The 50's however were not known for realistic and safe designs to begin with.
 
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Is fusion the same as fission for you?

Because not even Tschernobyle ended up like that?
No, I was simply pointing out that both are forms of nuclear power.

You mean Chernobyl? anyways, that is a fallacious example because, again, Fallout is not based on real world science, but rather the skewed perception of nuclear power as view by 1950's America.

/edit: Apparently I need to explain that. See, cars are usually used by living people, and often around living people. Most of these people like staying alive. A crash on the highway leading to a chainreaction of nuclear explosions makes living a bit harder, and even though the world of Fallout downplays the effects of nuclear explosions the actual effect we see in the game is too ridiculous to believe. Not even the most reckless crazy idiot engineers in the world of Fallout would approve of cars that go supercritical when they get a little dent. Not that nuclear reactors do that, anyway, because a runaway nuclear reaction is surprisingly hard to achieve.
And no sane engineer would design a Mr Handy robot the way we see it in fallout 1, 2, or 3 either. Those things are literal deathtraps by any real world measure.

The 50's however were not known for realistic and safe designs to begin with.

There's a slight difference between a Mr. Handy toppling over and city-wide destruction in case of a hit-and-run.
 
There's a slight difference between a Mr. Handy toppling over and city-wide destruction in case of a hit-and-run.
My Handy Robots were nuclear powered also, imagine a fault in its containment core, it would kill any normal household.

The Fallout 1/2 versions also stayed aloft via two massive fans on either side. The force needed to lift such a heavy robot, and keep it stable, would be enough to suck up basically anything nearby, posing a massive danger to anyone standing near it, and would make it totally un-viable as a house cleaning robot, unless you liked watching it try to clean up the mess it keeps making.

The Fallout 3 and later versions stayed a lot via a a mini jet engine. That thing would burn up and cause everything below it to catch fire, and imagine if a baby crawled under it.

That's not to mention that they have a power saw, a blowtorch, and, according to New Vegas, and armor piercing laser array. All of which would be so lethal if they malfunctioned that it would NEVER realistically make it to market.

You are putting to much realism into a series whose basis is that radiation = magic, and the insane, and obviously dangerous, 1950's world of tomorrow designs actually worked. Its like complaining that the Jetsons, who lived in elevated condos high above the earth's surface, built a treadmill on the outside, dangling off the side of the building. OFC its obviously dangerous, and no sane person would do it, that's not the point.


I honestly don't get all this historical revision to try to make Fallout into some hardcore realistic look at a post nuclear world, when its never been that, even according to people like Tim Cain who made the series.
 
I honestly don't get all this historical revision to try to make Fallout into some hardcore realistic look at a post nuclear world, when its never been that, even according to people like Tim Cain who made the series.

I'm not trying to do that, I just think one has to draw the line somewhere. Causing a nuclear apocalypse everytime you rear-end someone is just too much. Yes, Mr. Handys are silly as well (they're jets in the old version as well, though), but it's on a way different scale than a nuclear bomb on wheels. The nuclear power coming from microfusion cells appears to be stable in Fallout 1/2. No reason to assume that cars should explode when you look at them funny.
Yes, everything's nuclear powered. But it's also supposed to be rather safe. I really don't know how to explain this to you, so I'll just stop.
 
But it's also supposed to be rather safe.
Except it isn't. One of the core defining aspect of 50's designs was how DANGEROUSLY unsafe they were. 50's car designs for instance are literally screaming metal death traps.

You can't explain it because its wholly untrue, always has been.

That these nuclear chain reaction never happened in the pe-war Fallout universe is simply because, like how radiation causes animals to mutate into giant versions of themselves.... because!
 
But it's also supposed to be rather safe.
Except it isn't. One of the core defining aspect of 50's designs was how DANGEROUSLY unsafe they were.

50's car designs are literally screaming metal death traps.

You can't explain it because its wholly untrue, always has been.

Nuclear power was supposed to be safe, not all designs.
Also, let's not forget that Fallout does not take place in the 50's.
 
Nuclear power was supposed to be safe, not all designs.
Also, let's not forget that Fallout does not take place in the 50's.
Was SUPPOSED to be safe. A big part of Fallout has always been peeling back the ignorance and idiocy of the 50's perception of the future, and how laughably misguided they were about nuclear power in general.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/intervie...tem-interview-part-one-v15-105836/page-2.html
"If you watch enough 50s sci-fi movies and see scientific propaganda from that time, you have to laugh/cringe (Did people really believe hiding under desks would protect them from a nuclear blast? Did they believe that detonating warheads near inhabited islands wouldn't cause consequences?). Forbidden Planet made me laugh. The Deadly Mantis made me laugh. Tarantula made me laugh. So I figured playing up to that crazy ATOMIC sci-fi feel was appropriate, and the team had a lot of fun with it as well."


No, it takes place in how the 50's imagined the future, and is thus subject to all the limitations that people in the 50's had, since they are ultimately the ones who designed it.
 
Nuclear power was supposed to be safe, not all designs.
Also, let's not forget that Fallout does not take place in the 50's.
Was SUPPOSED to be safe. A big part of Fallout has always been peeling back the ignorance and idiocy of the 50's perception of the future, and how laughably misguided they were about nuclear power in general.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/intervie...tem-interview-part-one-v15-105836/page-2.html
"If you watch enough 50s sci-fi movies and see scientific propaganda from that time, you have to laugh/cringe (Did people really believe hiding under desks would protect them from a nuclear blast? Did they believe that detonating warheads near inhabited islands wouldn't cause consequences?). Forbidden Planet made me laugh. The Deadly Mantis made me laugh. Tarantula made me laugh. So I figured playing up to that crazy ATOMIC sci-fi feel was appropriate, and the team had a lot of fun with it as well."


No, it takes place in how the 50's imagined the future, and is thus subject to all the limitations that people in the 50's had, since they are ultimately the ones who designed it.

And they didn't design their cars to go Hiroshima everytime they scratch their paint.
 
And they didn't design their cars to go Hiroshima everytime they scratch their paint.
And they didn't design their robots of the future to be nuclear powered deathtraps.... doesn't mean they weren't.

Do you know they were? There's no indication that they were, actually. Obviously the original Mr. Handy flew with some kind of handwavium future science that doesn't scare dogs or kills kids (because it simply doesn't do that because it's handwavium and it says it's safe), and as I said, energy technology appeared to be pretty stable in all depictions but Fallout 3/4's rolling nuclear holocausts.
Internal consistency and consequences of your world are important parts of science fiction writing. Even when you base your world on 50's pulp you can still have a consistent world that makes as much sense as possible. The envisioned world was more or less a technological utopia. It worked by pulpy handwavium, and that's fine. Mr. Handys can fly without incinerating everything around them, we have to accept that, and it's not the hardest thing to accept because the consequences from a magical flying robot are rather marginal.
Accepting that cars are for some reason a lot less stable than everything else and explode from three bullets has a lot more consequences than cool explosions in the wasteland: It means that every single crash is deadly not only for the people directly involved, but also for everyone around them, contaminating the entire street and so on. It makes the world go from "slightly irresponsibly" to "full blown lunacy", making the world a lot less believable. Because it's not the whole world that is mad, it's apparently just the automobile engineers who conveniently forgot how to make stable energy cells allow for exploding barrels in the streets.
 
Yeah, following that logic it begs the question why not EVERYTHING that runs on fusion/fission energy is actually exploding in nuclear mushroom clouds. Including your robot companion, your power armor, any other robot you encounter, every building runing with fusion cells, and what ever else they use to power with.

For some reason. It's just the cars. How convenient.

Is fusion the same as fission for you?

Because not even Tschernobyle ended up like that?
No, I was simply pointing out that both are forms of nuclear power.

You mean Chernobyl? anyways, that is a fallacious example because, again, Fallout is not based on real world science, but rather the skewed perception of nuclear power as view by 1950's America.

But it's not based on bullshit. And that is what we are mainly talking about. Bullshit. Bullshit that is there just to create a theme park without any consistency or fear of consequences. Cars exploding in nuclear mushroom clouds, is simply bullshit, for a setting like Fallout. Even if you use this 1950s vision of america, and even back than, people pretty well understood the effects of nuclear explosions, you know, this whole cold-war fear of Soviets starting a nuclear attack on the US? It didn't just came out of nowhere. THe 50s have been extremly enthusiastic about nuclear technology, but they havn't been build on bullshit.

You never see oxygen in Fallout 1, and you never see someone telling you that it is important, that your character or any NPC needs it. Hell, they are all just blobs of pixels! And yet, we can assume that this world is realistic enough that creatures require for the most part oxygen to survive in the Fallout setting. So suffocating would be possible.

This same kind of logic would usually also tell us that nuclear weapons are not just like grenades, and that they should not simply behave like explosives. Or that cars should not explode in nuclear mushroom clouds just because you hit them with your baseball bat.

And as Hass told you already.
Fallout. Is. Not. The. 50s.

Get that in your thick skull finally. It doesn't happen that you're kinda related to Todd in some way? Who probably feels that the Fallout world is a 1950s world blown up to rather than a 1950s vision of the future.

And I will say this again.

NO ONE HERE DEMANDS A SIMULATION! WE JUST THINK THERE SHOULD BE MORE CONSISTENCY!

So stop saying that.


And they didn't design their cars to go Hiroshima everytime they scratch their paint.
And they didn't design their robots of the future to be nuclear powered deathtraps.... doesn't mean they weren't.

And they are not. For some reason the robots in Fallout 3 and 4 do not explode in nuclear mushroom clouds. But ... the cars do?
 
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But it's not based on bullshit. And that is what we are mainly talking about. Bullshit. Bullshit that is there just to create a theme park without any consistency or fear of consequences. Cars exploding in nuclear mushroom clouds, is simply bullshit, for a setting like Fallout. Even if you use this 1950s vision of america, and even back than, people pretty well understood the effects of nuclear explosions, you know, this whole cold-war fear of Soviets starting a nuclear attack on the US? It didn't just came out of nowhere. THe 50s have been extremly enthusiastic about nuclear technology, but they havn't been build on bullshit.

You never see oxygen in Fallout 1, and you never see someone telling you that it is important, that your character or any NPC needs it. Hell, they are all just blobs of pixels! And yet, we can assume that this world is realistic enough that creatures require for the most part oxygen to survive in the Fallout setting. So suffocating would be possible.

This same kind of logic would usually also tell us that nuclear weapons are not just like grenades. Or that cars should not explode in nuclear mushroom clouds just because you hit them with your baseball bat.
>Its bullshit that a series based on 1950's scifi b-movie tropes uses 1950' scifi b-movie tropes.
Uh huh


And no, the 50's were laughably ignorant of how nuclear power worked. Which is a large part of why they did all those highly dangerous nuclear tests near populated areas, and were surprised when those tests had adverse effects on the people who lived nearby, and why people in the 50's actually imagined idiotic things like nuclear powered cars being safe and feasible when they weren't. This ignorance and naivety is the root cause behind so much dumb shit like the drills to hide under your desk in case of a nuclear attack, and is reflected in their pop culture where radiation was basically magic that could do almost anything in terms of mutation.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The 50's is well known to be a time of ignorance, and gross misunderstanding of the true nature of atomic power.

What the flying fuck did they teach you in school? How can you be so utterly and competently misinformed? Are you not from America or something?
 
Turns out the fine details of the depiction of nuclear power in 1950's american pop culture does not take up too much space in german curriculi.
 
You should be carefull with your tantrum, Someguy.

Scientist started to detect and understand radiation and the effects of it since Marie Curie and her husband experimented with it at the end of the 19th century. Even though the whole concept of nuclear science and it's dangers was not completely understood, the scientists had a vague idea that radiation, beeing a very potent form of energy, was dangerous. Many people died directly or indirectly from radiation even before WW1, to believe that no one ever cared about it or understood the potential, is silly.

Yes, they also treated nuclear technology very often in a lax way - but this was definetly NOT(!) only limited to the 1950s, but actually for a very long time, particularly in the military, even up to the 1980s. Scientists regularly warned officials, military leaders and politicans about the dangers and effects of nuclear technology.

Don't assume everyone in the 1950s was some kind of mongoloid when it comes to technology and nuclear science. Even though they didn't knew everything, and hence made many mistakes, not just out of hubris or ignorance. But because of preasure. Particularly political preasure. They perfectly well understood the dangers and exposition with nuclear tests, which is one of the reasons why they would usually not detonate nuclear bombs if the wind was moving in highly populated areas. They very well understood the dangers. But it was simply a calculated risk in their eyes, which they accepted to beat the Soviets. Particularly since the Soviets had already the nuclear bomb in 1949, at least 5-6 years earlier than expected. Which created a very high preasure on the scientists to create new technologies, and more importantly, new weapons, as fast as possible, to stay on the edge against the Soviets. And the Soviets did the same. You find this lax in many areas, not just nuclear technology. Look at the whole space programm of the 1960s with all of the accidents and mistakes. Simply because everyone wanted to be the first in the race to the moon.



It is true, many effects of radiation have been not understood in the 1950s, particularly long term effects of very low yields of radiation, and the relation to certain kinds of sickness, like some rare kinds of cancer. But to say that people had no general knowledge about the dangers of radiation in the 1950s would be very wrong. Tests and particularly the experience of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have told the scientists and military personal that much.

Political preasure and fear of the other side happend in the west just as it did in the east, which has lead to a lot of mistakes, just as well as ignorance and naivity did. Today we can only laugh about many of the 1950s ideas and concepts, particularly the kind of protection and measures they taught to the public. But many scientists, and in fact as we know today, even a large part of the public, didn't really believe that it was possible for the large part of the civilian population to survive a full nuclear war.

And I say this again. If robots, power armors, and pretty ANYTHING else that works on fusion/fission in Fallout doesn't explode in nuclear mushroom clouds, it is save to assume that cars would neither. Simply because in the 2070s of Fallout, they would have found a way to make that technology save. Even if the 1950s have been not allways about safety. There is no reason to assume the 2070s of Fallout would be exactly the same and the exact mirror of the 1950s. The 1950s had also the idea that the people of the future would have mastered the atom and everything around it to such a degree that we could manipulate it as easily like building a radio or bicycle.

Turns out the fine details of the depiction of nuclear power in 1950's american pop culture does not take up too much space in german curriculi.

To be fair, historically speaking this missconception and naivity was also true for Germany. At least for some.

But I think this had more to do with the fact that certain people, like Adenauer and Stauß hoped to arm the newly founded German Bundeswehr with it's own nuclear arsenal. In that sense, Adenauer once described nuclear weapons, naively as just another form of artillery. Now, maybe he was really believing it and didn't saw anything more in it than just a new kind of weapon, with more reach. But I somehow doubt it.

We know from Strauß that he saw nuclear weapons as the weapons of the future, and that a nation who want's to be equall with all the other powers, needs nuclear weapons, which I think was not too far from reality. All sides had a huge fear of nuclear weapons and saw a very high potential in it. This allone shows us that anyone with a brain, knew about the dangers.

The German population though was never all to happy about nuclear weapons.
 
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Funny.

When we use reality as argument, because the ruins and effects of nuclear detonations in Fallout 4 are not very believable, it is ignored. But when it comes to Moriarty and Tenpenny, suddenly the exploration of Vikings are relevant.

At which point do you decide what works and what doesn't work in a setting like Fallout? The answer. Never.

Writers are supposed to have fun and not care about something as trivial like consistency, and something as meaningless like lore should neve dictate fun.
Yeah, most times whenever I see people talking/arguing about realism in video games it seems things always get talking to the extreme. Like sometimes when somebody argues in favor of something realistic or it being realistic, and then the other side will counter with "oh but there's space aliens, or dragons, or magic, this game isn't realistic at all" or stuff like that. Like they're trying to say that just because you have all this unrealistic stuff in the game that means that this other thing can't/shouldn't be portrayed realistically. And with the inverse happening to when something is portrayed unrealistically in a video game.

A lot of people seem to take it to the very extremes when arguing along these lines. Like that if the game has this thing be realistic that the whole rest of the game has to portray everything else realistically too. Or if this game has a lot of unrealistic/otherworldly/fantasy stuff then then this other thing shouldn't be realistic.

But ultimately it's video games, so it's (most likely) just going to be any mix of realism an non realistic stuff. And I'd say a lot of times, a lot of that stuff, is just because it's a video game and was either done because of time, or money, or because of how it looked visually in the game, or because of how it worked within the game mechanics, or because of some other limitation, or even arbitrary reasoning. With there being no real in-game reason for why X thing works the way it does (even if one is made up afterwards, or if the players theorize an in-game reason why X thing works the way it does.)
 
Seriously, Someguy everything is said here,

If the game makes the rules, FUCKING FOLLOW THEM.

Example is that Fallout 3 says the world NEEDS the purifier and that people are dying of dehydration. Yet no where in the game apart from a water beggar does it really support that.
 
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