Why Do You Enjoy Fallout 3

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by X12, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. Mr. Handy

    Mr. Handy Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Moderator

    894
    Apr 5, 2006
    This sounds a lot like an idea I had eight years ago for a Fallout prequel that I dubbed Fallout Zero. The beginning of the game takes place just before the War breaks out. You play an American lieutenant in charge of a rapid response platoon in occupied Vancouver. You get to experience life on the American base, and the activities you participate in help determine your SPECIAL stats and tagged skills. You also get to meet other characters who will be important later. On the morning of October 23, 2077, your unit gets sent out to Vault 31, outside of the urban area (Stanley Park might be a good location for it). A band of Canadian insurgents has broken into the Vault in order to steal supplies. On your way there, your vehicle is disabled by an IED and your platoon is ambushed by Canadian insurgents (possibly connected to the ones who are raiding the Vault). This gives you an initial taste of combat, though there's also the possibility of repairing the vehicle while under fire and fleeing. Assuming you aren't killed, you and any other survivors of the ambush then proceed to the Vault. Alarms are going off, indicating that the Vault has been breached. You make your way through it, during which time the War breaks out. However, the alarms are already ringing and the Canadians have a jamming device to block you from communicating with the outside world, so you don't notice anything different yet. Just as you reach the bottom of the Vault and confront the Canadians, the bombs fall and the Vault automatically seals itself. You can at this point choose to either fight it out with the Canadians or try to make peace with them. The decision you make here, as well as which members of your group survive, has a large impact on the rest of the game.

    Fast forward seventeen years. Radiation levels have finally died down enough that it's relatively safe to venture outside. Supplies are running low (this Vault was intentionally understocked as part of the Vault experiment), and you need to explore the outside world to find enough to keep your people alive. There are other survivors as well, including some from the military base, which had its own built-in shelter. Your former commanding officer has gone completely mad and set himself up as the head of a powerful pseudo-religious cult, along the lines of Apocalypse Now. One of your fellow officers who was your friend is now his right-hand woman - and lover. The cult dominates the region, but there is also much more to explore along the Pacific Coast, possibly getting as far south as California.
     
  2. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    Does it really matter who shot first? None of the armies actually lead a ground invasion which is mandatory for an invasion and thecontinents got blasted to smithereens.

    @MrHandy :

    The time you have specified is not long enough for the the radiation to die down. You would need to have something like Metro 2033. Also, in the original games, Vault Tec did not actually want to kill their denizens with the experimentsand I do not see how limiting the foodin the vault would help the people survive in the wasteland (remember that the social experiments were not there to kill the inhabitants until Fallout 3, even NV didn't have the type of experiments that killed everyone, their inhabitants died from their own mistakes)
     
  3. BuffHamster

    BuffHamster mod the crap out of it

    47
    Sep 4, 2014
    Its not a bad story idea, it could use some more work, all first drafts do, but it has some good ideas and it is a complete plot line. What if a character was trapped in one of the bizarre Vault-Tec experiments? Although the Vault experiments were not intentionally lethal, they were quite macabre and insidious.

    Earlier, in a previous post here, I provided some informative links to articles about nuclear fallout and how one could survive the after effects of a nuclear detonation, or in the event of a nuclear war, many detonations. They indicate that the residual radiation from such an event would not last as long as many would think, quite probably only 5 to 6 weeks after such an event depending on the weapon type used (airburst-ground burst?), fallout shadow, and weather conditions.

    A MIRV weapon would actually destroy Washington DC, yet in Fallout 3, much of it remains, so I am not sure what weapons they used in that war, but it appears they were not like our own. Another oddity is the aircraft technology, those designs are from the mid 1940s, ... ??? but, I digress.

    Check the time periods on the map presented on this page: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2013/08/02/what-the-nukemap-taught-me-about-fallout/

    If you read the article, you will see that the blog author talks about the effects of a ground burst. A ground burst atomic weapon is not as effective as an air burst atomic weapon and produces much more fallout, yet many people think that is what will be used in an atomic war, when the opposite is true.

    Additional information:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions
    http://fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/effects.htm
    http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2013/12/06/trouble-airbursts/
    http://undergroundbombshelter.com/bombshelter/understanding-radiation-types-nuclear-explosions.htm
    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...nuclear-fear-how-we-learned-to-fear-the-bomb/

    Decades ahead? where did I say that? I mentioned a few years as a possibility. I don't think you completely digested everything I wrote.

    Making it to a Cryo-Facility was just one of many suggested story McGuffins for a pre-war, mid-war, post war background, I didn't present an entire story outline, just suggestions and possibilities to build a plot on. What I wrote was only meant to show that imagination and creativity could easily come up with a good multi-leveled story that takes place during the pre-war and post-war time period.

    Yes, you can create a story in any time period of the Fallout time line you want, but the point was that you could also create one with the actual nuclear war as a background, pre-war, mid-war(2 hours), post-war. Forget the idea of the character even making it a Cryo-Facility, okay?

    Anyway, this discussion has strayed completely off-topic and I blame myself for that, so that is all I will say on the matter. I am currently involved in a writing project of my own (not Fallout related) and had some of the background data I used handy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2014
  4. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    956
    Dec 24, 2012
    Regular nuclear weapons, yeah. Fission bombs? No. Fission bombs were designed to reproduce the effect of a reactor meltdown concerning the amount of radiation released. The only thing not present is a nuclear blast in a reactor meltdown...

    Do more research on fission bombs...

    I took Quantum Physics at CNM, they modeled a great deal of the class about teaching people about nuclear bombs, the teacher was a massive anti-nuke protestor and even made us see pictures of Nagasaki victims. We studied many types of nuclear weapons, especially the fission bomb which she regarded as the worst...
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  5. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite Board Cop oTO

    Jul 26, 2003
    Fun fact: The H-Bomb was actually conceived of and championed in part as a more "merciful" bomb because, despite the overwhelming jump up in megatonnage, its design would have resulted in fewer radiation deaths and a lower level of overall contamination.

    Now, not to derail (or re-rail) the discussion, but you know one thing I really appreciate about Fallout 3? Mirelurks. For all the flak we the superfans gave Bethsoft at the beginning over not coming up with anything original for their games, there was a lot of complaining going on about these "stupid mutated mudcrabs" when they were probably one of the best standout original creations the series had seen since Radscorpions. They capture the Midnight Horror Matinee aesthetic perfectly, their arthropodal anatomy grants them an intimidating alien presence, and, unlike (F2's/the Fallout Bible's retcon of) deathclaws, Wannamingos, and almost every other inexplicable wasteland horror, they're mutated via radiation from recognizable stock and have absolutely nothing to do with FEV.
     
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  6. Kalasanty11

    Kalasanty11 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Sep 18, 2013
    Enough to last for 200 years everywhere, including water and ground? How many places in Fallout 1 we find suffering from radiation? How did it affect agriculture (again, second link)? Would you say that there are enough proofs in F1 to say that those were fission bombs? I might've missed something, by I assumed that any kind of "salted bombs" wasn't used in Fallout universe (in Fallout 1 I mean).
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  7. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite Board Cop oTO

    Jul 26, 2003
    Guys, we're talking about a universe where The Glow was still deadly radioactive 100 years after the war and radiation turned everything it didn't kill into giants or freaks in less than a single generation, not to mention the fact that the nuclear annihilation of the world, even worthless targets like Bethesda and Klamath Falls, was near-complete. I'm not sure you can have any sort of fruitful discussion about the setting if you're trying to impose any real-world science concerning radioactivity or megaton yield.

    This is our setting: the misinformed fears of the cold war generation brought to life. They've veered a bit from that since F2 (though NV and all the DLC but Honest Hearts were kind enough to at least provide an explanation for the divergence), but in the end that really is the long and short of it.
     
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  8. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    That's a strawman, just because radiation works in the more "SCIENCE!" side of things that doesn't make the obvious lack of care about making consistent settlements and settings on a game, specially when they other games before it actually did just that successfully, even while keeping the SCIENCE! thing going on....
     
  9. Nas92

    Nas92 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    198
    Sep 8, 2012
    I enjoyed watching LPs of Fallout 3. I actually thought the game had good writing and was actually a pretty good RPG because the guy who was playing it was so talented and his escapades made me look past all the retardations. (I'm talking specifically about Necroscope86's first, sadly now deleted, LP of Fallout 3. The second one, which currently exists on his channel, I only watched for the Pitt DLC.)

    To add to the ongoing discussion - the good old "Capital Wasteland being a plothole in and of itself": I am ashamed to admit that, even though I played the original Fallout games before F3, I actually truly believed that the water was irradiated in most places. I mean there was Aradesh saying "may the water you find in the desert not glow on you in the dark", and I just thought that was indicative of everything. I even thought that the water merchants were successful because they had clear water. Looking back, I should have known, with all those damn wells around and nobody dying of thirst. Also I never paid attention that the settlements were actually believable. Shady Sands, I took that as a simple village, and thought of the other locations as gimmicky places, probably because of Junktown. Shows what I know, I guess.
     
  10. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    It took me some time to give up hope on Fo3 (i finished anyway). I mean, you start the game with a plot that have some engaging potential, there is the joy of leaving the vault avec 15-90 minutes in it. You end up in a first settlement quickly and expect the other to be as big or bigger, you see the first iterations of the kind of place and they feel new, you see the first underwhelming quest/characters, you think that you haven't unlocked them properly, or that this quest is connected with another one that give it meaning/logic, or that it is just this one that is bad, but the other will be good.

    It takes some time to get that most of the quest/characters are almost all equally underwhelming, that all the metro stations and ruined DC neighbours are the same, that their is a billion of generic content and not that much unique contents, that the main questline quality decrease over time, that many of the main factions have no charismatic leaders, that your choices are meaningless, etc...
     
  11. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign The Douchelord Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Fallout 3 is still leaps and bounds above PoS though. There is always that. My problem with Fallout 3, especially now, is no matter how much you mod it, it doesn't get as good as New Vegas. Fallout 3 is fine if you don't mind the bastardizing of lore or expect a RPG with C&C. It does the job well enough and has lasting appeal due to the mod scene. Actually...without that Bethesda would be shit. In retrospect. I only like the games they make because of the mods. Sure the vanilla games are usually passable, but they really open up when you take them apart, so to speak.

    Underneath all the nude mods and weapons there are some truly interesting ideas. Stuff that Bethesda wishes they came up with. Obsidian "borrowed" from the mod scene when they did hardcore mode on Fallout New Vegas, which is still not as in depth as what modders have done now. You can truly take the simulation aspect to the next level. Some people turn the game into a "hiking simulator". I can say that is a fun way to play after going through the game so many times. The modders practically make the sequels for the fuckers. Mods where you have to wear warm clothing to warm up, drying off by a fire or you will freeze to death, chopping down wood for campfires, putting up a tent, etc(Skyrim)...Now you can pilot a vertibird, or lead a squad of Enclave(if you dig that sort of thing), Go to new lands and create your very own areas with your own NPC's if you see fit. Don't like stat buffs on armor? Take them off. Too many perks, leveling too fast, too much loot? Mod the shit or download one of the numerous mods that does it for you. 60% of the problems in Fallout 3 can be resolved with mods or minor alterations in the GECK. I came up with that figure by using SCIENCE! Of course if you absolutely fucking hate the everlasting shit out of it, it doesn't matter how much you mod it. You will hate it.

    Back to my point, Fallout 3 did its job well enough to get mainstream appeal. Something I don't think Fallout 2 ever did. The casual gamers that never played RPG's bought Fallout 3 in mass. Some people played the game without knowing you could use VATS! Now we have Fallout t-shirts, bobbleheads, lunchboxes, and dudes going around dressed as Vault dwellers. Everyone who played games was talking about Fallout 3(in one way or the other), just like they did with Skyrim...Bethesda has somewhat alienated the hardcore Rpg crowd that played these games in the early years, as far as Fallout is concerned, and in many ways Elder Scrolls.
     
  12. Nas92

    Nas92 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    198
    Sep 8, 2012
    That's not a particularly high honor.
    I think the main problem with Fallout 3 is that it has "3" in the title and is actually in no way a sequel. I guess you get to fight the Enclave, a faction that was already a big mistake in Fallout 2, but other than that it has nothing to do with the main Fallout series. It's another spinoff basically. New Vegas is much more of a sequel, though not gameplay-wise. Who knows maybe there's an influential guy at BGS who's willing to persuade the soulless business people at the head of the ZeniMax family to let either Obsidian or inXile make an isometric, turn-based Fallout title. Can't see Toddler doing it, maybe Emil Pagliarulo could do it.
     
  13. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    TorontoRayne >
    So the gamebryo and the GECK offer many possibilities to create new games or use the vanilla game to make the game you want. It doesn't make the vanilla game any better. It would have been better if they had made it better.
    Beside that, they changed the gameplay to sell the game to console user, and those guys can't mod a thing.
     
  14. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    Is that even possible? Isn't there a constant flashing message that tells you to "Press "V" for Vats"
     
  15. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign The Douchelord Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Agreed.

    No. It doesn't. True on the second point as well, but I would argue that the mods are what keeps the Fallout 3 community going. It damn sure isn't people replaying the same vanilla game over and over. The console gamers don't give a shit about C&C in RPG's anyway, so there is that too.

    You give people too much credit. Many of the people who played the game most likely skipped through text prompts and dialog. I've seen it and read plenty of posts that show just that. I couldn't believe it either, but apparently some people are that stupid. Either that or they lie for no good reason. I have seen that repeated several times. It is highly likely they were over exaggerating, but the message remains clear. They didn't treat the game like a RPG, more like a FPS really. Which doesn't speak highly for the game. How great is the RPG if you skip through all the text and treat it like a FPS?

    Frankly as bad as Fallout 3 is I do think that the series went in an interesting direction...after Fallout 3 anyway. I love New Vegas with a passion. The first person view was never a deal breaker for me. I also love turn-based isometric RPG's. Who wouldn't have wanted Van Buren? At least we can scratch that itch with games like Wasteland 2 and Torment.

    I don't trust Bethesda not to fuck up Fallout 4, but I am eager to see how it turns out. In the end I believe Fallout 3 has gained much popularity due to changing the series roots to align with Elder Scrolls, the rise of Youtube LP's, and mods. The Nexus community is one of the most active Fallout sites on the web for a reason. Sure many of the fans don't know jack shit about the lore pre-F3, but plenty of them do, and their mods reflect that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014
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  16. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    As much as you say could be frightening, it might be grounded by a series of facts or attitude.
    Although, a partial disagreement here :

    - Even if their design is simpler, FPS can be smart and mature too.
    - I am not sure most Fo3 modders quite understand what Fallout is about. Nudes girls, more weapons, or enemies everywhere aren't the core of Fallout. They aren't even RPG related.
    - About text prompts, i wish some of them could be skipped too. I am tired of being harassed by even change of reputation status in FoNV...
     
  17. Nas92

    Nas92 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    198
    Sep 8, 2012
    So am I and I think a lot of others think the same way, even if they claim otherwise.
    In the case of Fallout 4 even one longer trailer is enough to tell how badly it will suck, since it will communicate the tone of the game. For instance if they do an action movie trailer then it will suck badly, or if they do some comedy trailer then it will suck even worse.

    Not just the modders, but the people who make all the fan works. Take Nuka Break for instance: it's good and all, but it's quite clear that they are not certain of the lore, and confuse West Coast situation with DC situation. It makes it even worse that good ol' MCA was part of Season 2 and he did jack shit against further butchering of lore. (I like Avellone, but I think he's severely overrated as a writer and as a designer.)
     
  18. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    It doesn't contradict what you said, but Nuka Break is more on the realm of Fan fiction, not unlike the famous Fallout: Equestria. Regardless of we love it or not, they are harmless to the lore, as they have no chance to be canon. (like most mods by the way)

    Amongs fan projects made by Fo3/TES fans that doesn't hurt the lore, i would suggest the Lore Series. They explain the lore in an enjoyable way, that is still fun for those who know it all. My only issues are that they totally disregard FoT (and FoBOS) and never use assets from the old games. For instance, when they talk about Horrigan or Tandi, they make up new characters on the gamebryo instead of using the wonderful original arts. Other than that, they are quite great.
     
  19. Big No

    Big No Watch as I open and close this door

    712
    Oct 28, 2014
    Unfortunately all highly modifiable games are going to have those types of mods so I don't really look into them that much, I look into mods that actually took some effort like Project Brazil. AlChestBreach is a good place to look for good mods and the Nexus from what I've used usually has the good mods mostly high ranked. Also, I don't think all mods for the games need to be RPG related, some people just want some new things to toy around with y'know.
     
  20. TheChosen1

    TheChosen1 Moving Target

    Nov 8, 2012
    But you are ignoring the quality mods like Project Nevada, New Vegas Bounties, EVE and a few other quest and gameplay enhancing mods.
     
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