Why Fo4 fucked Fallout lore

[NotAcasul]

21 : the Institute needed pure DNA Is Shaun's DNA pure ? Hell no. The boy was in his mother's arms, in sight of a freaking nuclear explosion before he was frozen. Now, let's remind us of some basic notions of physics : gamma radiations travel at the speed of light. At the very second you see the flash of a nuclear bomb, your body is ALREADY bathing in Gamma Radiations, which are responsible for causing DNA mutations. So, if anything, Shaun is more irradiated than most of the survivors who managed to hide underground when the bomb exploded. Especially when you see the glowing sea and realize how dirty this bomb was. And let's not forget that Shaun was fed by a robot powered by an atomic battery, who regulary changed his diaper and made his food, mostly made with highly dangerous isotopes. The whole thing, surrounded by nuclear cars. The whole thing, while being born from a guy who was on the front of a war that used massive chemical weapons, fat mans etc. Too bad for the Institute's experiments, I guess.

Hol up

It's not the gamma radiation that makes someone less pure. It's the scattered bits of FEV from the targeted facilities. Which comes after the Great War. Remember Saul, one of the best companions? He became a ghoul after the bombs fell. The Glowing Sea was a shit-hole because: hidden nuclear facility containing hundreds (thousands?) of nuclear weapons, multiple nuclear reactors and a high-level surveillance facility http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Abandoned_shack_(Fallout_4). The Chinese would have a very good reason for attacking it, much more than Boston.

22 : Synth can't remember the Institute, because security protocols wipe these memory out. Sure thing. Except for Glory, right ? She remembers the Institute very well. Except for Harkness, too ? You just have to tell him he's a Synth to remember everything about his past. Now, you're telling me than in sixty years, not a single synth was captured and tortured to give the Institute's location?

Perhaps the Institute programmed them to not give out that kind of information?

18 : There are super mutants at Boston. Contradiction with : all fallouts. Fallout 1 ends with the destruction of the FEV base, which was used to create mutants... And let me tell this again : pure, raw FEV doesn't produce super mutants, but monsters like Harold or the master. To engineer Super Mutants, the greatest mind of the wasteland had to grow psychic powers, unite itself with a computer and spend years of failures before even making his first super mutant. The destruction of his labs mean only one thing : that this knowledge is lost, possibly forever. There isn't a single plausible, lore-friendly scenario that explains how dumby dumb super mutants could create new soldiers on their own. Fallout 2, which happens many decades after, actually confirms that the super mutants are almost all dead. Fallout Tactics sees the midwest brotherhood stop the lat Super Mutants wave pretty easily. Depending on the ending, they end up enlisting for the Brotherhood of steel or exterminated in camps. Fallout 3 ends with the Brotherhood seizing Washington D.C., Liberty Prime, Enclave technology and choppers. If there are still super mutants in the perimeter six months after that (logically, there shouldn't have been any in the first place, but well), then it would mean that the Brotherhood has officially retreated from the east coast. Which it hasn't.

The Institute have 200+ years to perfect their formula and even then it isn't perfect. All the Super Mutants have been produced by the Institute. I'd bet that the Institute tried this right after the bombs fell.

Everything else is good.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

I can kinda understand why he did it tbh. He was responding to a statement which started with "If X-01 is pre-war", he was just clarifying that it was. And while maybe citing Fallout Shelter may not have been the smartest move, admittedly it adds a bit of backstory so, there's that.

I don't know, Some of the statements he made are just plain retarded. Especially the myron one.

If jet was a pre-war drug the implications would have huge ramifications. One of which it would be ubiquitous everywhere and the mordinos would have no need for myron to begin with since jet is everywhere and anyone could manufacture and use the formula. One of the biggest strength of that family was its ability to produce a strong drug and infact i believe the wright family suspected the mordinos first and foremost to begin with in the wright's dead Son side quest.

 

[Jogre]

I don't know, Some of the statements he made are just plain retarded. Especially the myron one.

If jet was a pre-war drug the implications would have huge ramifications. One of which it would be ubiquitous everywhere and the mordinos would have no need for myron to begin with since jet is everywhere and anyone could manufacture and use the formula. One of the biggest strength of that family was its ability to produce a strong drug and infact i believe the wright family suspected the mordinos first and foremost to begin with in the wright's dead Son side quest.

You can kinda see his point tho, although I don't think he really respects the implications of the jet retconn.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, in my opinion there is simply to much of it. Jet, Super Mutants, Enclave-like Power armor. The Power Armor, to make matters worse, is even a completely random thing, as it doesn't show up before you reach a certain level. It should have been a difficult to reach, unique PA. They could have always explained it as an Enclave Bunker, or remnants who managed to came from Navarro. And simply died there.
IF we are honest, the only reason why so much Fallout 1 and 2 stuff is present, with half hearted explanations, is so that no one could get a doubt that this is a real Fallout game, and not some imposter-franken-shooter which has only Fallout as its name. But Fallout wasn't about the Jet or the Enclave PA or what ever.

 

[0wing]

Bethesda just hates everything post-war in Fallout I guess, like the whole franchise, but still have to stick with Fallout's attributes to justify their junkfood as Fallout which is wrong on so many levels and leaves us in the end with not fish nor flesh but brahmin feces. That's why T-60 can't be built by BoS, X-01 cannot be post-war Enclave invention and super mutants be ditched away.
Returning to feces remark: yes, feral F4 fans can be clarified as Jet addicts.
Fallout: Nevada is more Fallout than F4 without BoS, Jet, Enclave, T-xx PA or most of the Fallout attributes hanging around.

 

[Polynoid]

Awesome OP.
Even though i enjoyed Fallout 4, as a different game i can't deny the writing is a huge clusterfuck. Even if one has to assume, that lore doesn't exist in Bethesda games, e.g. the games are placed in encapsulated timelines (Even if we had Dr.Madison Li), it is still contradicting, as you have mentioned, itself.

So yeah, Bethesda said: "fuck the consistence, fuck the lore, fuck the 1 and 2, we just take some falloutish stuff, wrap it in a marysue plot, add vaults, call it nu-lore and canon and dish it out. Kids will love it."
Well, it sells. It just has nothing to do with what we call the original lore. It's not Fallout as we know it, that's all - and one can be really angry about it.
And the universe exist only for sake of the protagonist. There is no reason behind it.
If the Brotherhood wants to nuke a treasure trowe of technology, instead of reasoning with them, like in Tactics, for example - it just does because the story of your character needs a moral "choice".
Everything that doesn't serve a purpose in the Epic Saga of your Sole Survivor is disregarded, like "what do the Wastelanders eat?" in Fallout 3.

I enjoy it as a spinoff or pretend to think it is a different Fallout reality.
A dumb one. With a logic that wants me to break my nose with a palm.

But when you look over it, Fallout 4 is a fun roleplayinggamey- egoshooter with mods.
I just hope, Beth and Obsidian will sit once more at the same table and do something like New Vegas.

 

[0wing]

This is a largely nitpicking point and contains one of the dumbest pieces of story ever created for Fallout 2. Myron's explanation for Jet is, quite frankly, bullshit.

My fellow chemist calls bullshit on this guy. He didn't described the process for understandable reasons but still, Jet is not too far from truth. And we don't know how exactly brahmins mutated so their feces can be used as material for highly addictive drugs if writers want it. But not others, unlike how Fallout 4 implies.

 

[Zyax]

Bethesda just hates everything post-war in Fallout I guess, like the whole franchise, but still have to stick with Fallout's attributes to justify their junkfood as Fallout which is wrong on so many levels and leaves us in the end with not fish nor flesh but brahmin feces. That's why T-60 can't be built by BoS, X-01 cannot be post-war Enclave invention and super mutants be ditched away.
Returning to feces remark: yes, feral F4 fans can be clarified as Jet addicts.
Fallout: Nevada is more Fallout than F4 without BoS, Jet, Enclave, T-xx PA or most of the Fallout attributes hanging around.

So has anyone addressed that Bethesda actually said X-01 isn't pre-war? I'm not going to waste my time swimming through the mounds of salt to find out

 

[Ragemage]

Let's also not forget their retconn of the fact Ghouls aren't immortal zombies just because of radiation.

Because not only do Ghouls apparently not have to eat or drink water ever, they also don't need to breathe! Source: The quest Kid in a Fridge and the multiple ghouls trapped in the subway tunnels with literally no food or water to thrive off of and thus survive down there, and not to mention the multiple underwater ghouls in the Dunwich Borers near the end of it.

But wait, Ghouls do need food and water. If you take the water chip from the ghouls of Necropolis in Fallout 1, the game goes to great strains to make sure you understand the ghouls die from dehydration because you took their only source of water. Hell, the game retcons itself because we can clearly see ghouls eating and drinking on the tarberry farm they own! And keep in mind, this tarberry farm is important in the game because it's the only place you can get them in abundance, so they obviously expect you to go there at some point.

Let's also not forget how they gave almost every important robot in the game, not just synths, pure AI, from Codsworth to the captain of the USS Constitution.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

Serious question. What did 'Father' do during the time he was in the insta-toot? What did he accomplish that was not already accomplished in those 60 years?

 

[Spacemunkey]

Serious question. What did 'Father' do during the time he was in the insta-toot? What did he accomplish that was not already accomplished in those 60 years?

To get a bunch of sycophants to very creepily call him Father, oh and GEN3 sex-bots.

 

[Ragemage]

Serious question. What did 'Father' do during the time he was in the insta-toot? What did he accomplish that was not already accomplished in those 60 years?

He accomplished turning the only useful project in the Institute into scrap. Kellogg was a huge success for the Institute, they literally invented technology that prevented a person from aging, along with giving them more durability and weapon prowess. Kellogg was a literally undying super soldier. And then "Father" scrapped the whole thing because reasons never given. So that was a fuck up.

Fuck up #2: Father is the one that started the Institute's cloning of Super Mutants. It's specifically stated in Virgil's holotape in the FEV lab that Father commissioned this project 10 years ago, and Father's been in charge a lot longer than that. So Father's the reason the Boston Commonwealth is such a shithole essentially.

Fuck up #3: The Institute acts like they want to make peace with the surface, but instead they randomly kidnap people all the time and replace them with synths for absolutely no reason except for testing new AI. In fact even though the game seems to act like the Institute only wants to help the surface, many scientists in the Institute are hypocritical. During one mission they may send you on a quest to help the surface, and then the VERY NEXT MISSION they'll bitch about how the surface is a hellhole when they just sent you to fix it. Father is the biggest hypocrite of all in this regard.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

Specifically, is he responsible for the creation of any synths?

snip

snip

 

[Spacemunkey]

The mini-father is his design I believe.

 

[Ragemage]

For gen 1 and 2 synths, no. But Father is the genetic code used to make Gen 3 synths. So essentially all those synths you fuck, shoot, tear apart, hang out with, etc etc? They're all your grandkids. Have fun trying to fuck Curie and Danse now all 2 people that actually enjoyed the romance system. Your character is their granddaddy/grandmama.

Meanwhile Fuck Up #4: The Institute had an ENTIRE VAULT full of untainted specimens, and they had teleportation technology back then, yet they only took the baby? Why not take the entire vault population? The Institute is certainly big enough to handle it, and that way they could learn a ton about the past, keep records, maybe fix some of their untrue history and whatnot. It's not like it would take them a long time, they had teleportation technology back then. They'd also have plenty of back-up options to clone Synths with in case something happened to Shaun. But nope, they only take a fucking baby and leave EVERYONE ELSE to die. Except you. For no reason. It's never even explained how they managed to leave your pod on but turn everyone else's off.

Plus if the Institute didn't have teleportation technology back then, then how the fuck is Shaun not affected by the radiation outside? Father states that the second Institute scientists stepped outside, even with RAD suits on, they became tainted by radiation. So clearly Shaun must have been teleported out of Vault 111 or else he should've been infected the second they stepped out of the vault, according to the game's logic.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

What gen are coursers then?

snip

 

[Ragemage]

What gen are coursers then?

Technically still Gen 3s, just with the added bonus of having teleporters stuck in their heads, so they can easily get in and out of the Institute. They're basically just "super Gen 3s" with more armor, combat training, and teleportation.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

Technically still Gen 3s, just with the added bonus of having teleporters stuck in their heads, so they can easily get in and out of the Institute. They're basically just "super Gen 3s" with more armor, combat training, and teleportation.

So during the quest when you go through Kellogg's memories there is a synth that Shaun is responsible for creating, that comes to get him when he is 10, to bring him to the insta-toot?

 

[Ragemage]

So during the quest when you go through Kellogg's memories there is a synth that Shaun is responsible for creating, that comes to get him when he is 10, to bring him to the insta-toot?

Actually

Spoiler

That Shaun you see in Kellogg's memories isn't actually Shaun. It's the stupid child synth that Shaun built around the time he freed you from cyrostasis. That's never explained either, but it's essentially just to add teh dramaz.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

Actually

Spoiler

That Shaun you see in Kellogg's memories isn't actually Shaun. It's the stupid child synth that Shaun built around the time he freed you from cyrostasis. That's never explained either, but it's essentially just to add teh dramaz.

Why is cereal watching him? Do you have a source?