Why is no one talking about the Watchmen trailer?
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UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I'm in agreement that the movie's biggest problem is the inconsistent tone. I think that they consciously made it lighter to be more appealing to the masses which means that they have more gratuitous comic violence, hilarious musical direction (99 Luftballons being the only song that stuck out as seeming completely random, the rest were pretty overtly comedic). I'd also say that it suffers from editing that's a bit off (due to having an hour cut out for the first of two theatrical releases), which doesn't help the mood and makes it more confusing, and some of the dialogue seems really forced and stilted due to being unaltered from the original source. I'm interested to see the directors cut as that will be what really says whether or not they did a good job or not, this current release seems to have too much cut and not enough adapted for the average viewer to completely understand what's going on. They needed to either rework the entire story (as opposed to adapting and/or cutting just what they needed to) or show it in it's entirety, though I'd guess that the directors cut will probably still have the tone problem and stilted dialogue.
As for the changed ending, I'm halfway through the second to last graphic novel so I can't compare it yet but I thought that what they did in the movie worked well and made some sense (though I'm not sure about Dr. Manhattan working for the US government and building the reactors for Veidt, didn't realize how odd that was until just now).
As for the changed ending, I'm halfway through the second to last graphic novel so I can't compare it yet but I thought that what they did in the movie worked well and made some sense (though I'm not sure about Dr. Manhattan working for the US government and building the reactors for Veidt, didn't realize how odd that was until just now).
I'm not sure about the inconsistent tone, but most of the movie felt more like a comedy. If there was much serious tone intended, it failed for me for the most part. Not to mention the overall cheesiness of it.
I felt like, even though some stuff was cut out for the cinema, some of the stuff was unnecessary - or maybe badly enough done. The whole Owl guy+Silk Spectre 2 romantic subplot was completely bland and boring (minus the sex scene hilarity), and overall those two charas were quite one-dimensional.
I was also quite bothered by how overly stylized the movie was - slo-mo is nice and all, but you don't have to do it every fucking 5 seconds.
Other than that, the movie went to extremes a lot in many other aspects, so a lot of story and acting felt very overdone. It's better than your usual action flick about superheroes, but not exactly great.
I'd also prefer Dr. Manhattan to get less naked screentime. It's just kind of disgusting.
I felt like, even though some stuff was cut out for the cinema, some of the stuff was unnecessary - or maybe badly enough done. The whole Owl guy+Silk Spectre 2 romantic subplot was completely bland and boring (minus the sex scene hilarity), and overall those two charas were quite one-dimensional.
I was also quite bothered by how overly stylized the movie was - slo-mo is nice and all, but you don't have to do it every fucking 5 seconds.
Other than that, the movie went to extremes a lot in many other aspects, so a lot of story and acting felt very overdone. It's better than your usual action flick about superheroes, but not exactly great.
I'd also prefer Dr. Manhattan to get less naked screentime. It's just kind of disgusting.
[spoiler:bec08251a7]Yes, and now they're having to unite against possible repercussions by Jon. It's not all that different.[/spoiler:bec08251a7]The Dutch Ghost said:
Yes. Probably because his nakedness was really overstated. In the graphic novel it was never apparent and it seemed understated.Ausdoerrt said:
I disagree that most of the film was comedic, though. It was really dark and harsh. I've never seen a comedy go for the child-murderer and dogs chewing on its bones, or all the gruesome violence.
UncannyGarlic, it's really impossible to fully adapt Watchmen to screen. You cannot get that story into 3 hours of movie in any kind of watchable format.
[spoiler:1846191de9]I myself would have rather preferred the 'alien invader' angle near the end than turning Dr Manhattan into some destructive force.[/spoiler:1846191de9]
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Oh I agree, you're going to have to cut, change, and adapt stuff no matter what you do because some things, like the end of chapter extras and the pirate comic, are just not possible to smoothly include. Given the production staff, the final result is no big surprise which is a bit unfortunate. I think that they needed to take more liberties with the material to try and keep the tone, message, and general plot but not try to turn make a movie that tries to mimic the panels and dialogue of the comic. After thinking about it some I can't help but wonder if Christopher Nolan and his Dark Knight team would have done a better job. Watchmen was clearly made by the folks behind 300 and Sin City and while those are enjoyable movies certainly aren't the same or right tone as the Watchmen comic.Sander said:
Sander said:
Not that it wasn't graphic. But it felt kind of un-serious a lot of the time. Maybe that's the mood inconsistency U.Garlic was talking about.
Then again, Sin City was very graphic too, but I still consider it a comedy. Albeit, the humour in Sin City was a lot darker and more cynical than in Watchmen.
The swapping of the squid for manhattan is benign. The real problem is the muffled up dynamic between all the characters.
Rawshark\Nite Owl dynamic is completely fudged. Rawshark's idolization of Comedian is missing, a bit, as well as Laurie's antipathy. Also it sort of felt like they were trying to get Comedian out of the way in the first hour.
I don't know. Rawshark was too angry. It was as if they took that one aspect and made it his one contributing characteristic. Like in his first exchange with Nite Owl, when he storms off at the end of that. What did he say at the end of that...
"You quit!!!111"
Strait out of the novel.
Rawshark\Nite Owl dynamic is completely fudged. Rawshark's idolization of Comedian is missing, a bit, as well as Laurie's antipathy. Also it sort of felt like they were trying to get Comedian out of the way in the first hour.
I don't know. Rawshark was too angry. It was as if they took that one aspect and made it his one contributing characteristic. Like in his first exchange with Nite Owl, when he storms off at the end of that. What did he say at the end of that...
"You quit!!!111"
Strait out of the novel.
iridium_ionizer
Mildly Dipped
I thought they really sexed up and violenced up the story compared to the graphic novel. In a lot of ways the novel could have been more violent or gratuitous but instead implied a lot of the sex and violence (though not all) to make it more cerebral. The action had great parts but they did too many rapid cuts for me to appreciate most of it. I was disappointed that some of the acting seemed so flat (although some was good). Overall I have mixed feelings - someone other than Zack Synder might have strayed much more from the look and story of the graphic novel, but Watchmen is not 300, it is primarily a noir story not an action story, I think the mystery/suspense could have been emphasized more. Nonetheless the film could have been much worse. With how complicated the story is (including enough flashbacks to rival Memento) and how the dialogue is more natural sounding on the page than when spoken, it's hard to imagine any adaptation being free of complaints.
[spoiler:6678fa5b37]Lastly I wish the kept the alien invaders. First, I don't understand how the Comedian discovered Veidt's plot without him finding the island. Furthermore, if Dr. Manhattan was blamed wouldn't the Soviets still be pissed off at the USA since Dr. Manhatten was their weapon for some 20 years. Also an imminent threat that would unite the two superpowers is much harder to imagine when it is not alien. If Dr. Manhatten wanted to he could vaporize the Earth at anytime. But the aliens seemed to accidentally teleport to the Earth (and killed millions in the process) indicating a botched scouting mission and with their capabilities and motivations (except for being deadly) being totally unknown the USA and USSR would have to combine their efforts to prepare a defense. It's not the same with Dr. Manhatten. [/spoiler:6678fa5b37]
[spoiler:6678fa5b37]Lastly I wish the kept the alien invaders. First, I don't understand how the Comedian discovered Veidt's plot without him finding the island. Furthermore, if Dr. Manhattan was blamed wouldn't the Soviets still be pissed off at the USA since Dr. Manhatten was their weapon for some 20 years. Also an imminent threat that would unite the two superpowers is much harder to imagine when it is not alien. If Dr. Manhatten wanted to he could vaporize the Earth at anytime. But the aliens seemed to accidentally teleport to the Earth (and killed millions in the process) indicating a botched scouting mission and with their capabilities and motivations (except for being deadly) being totally unknown the USA and USSR would have to combine their efforts to prepare a defense. It's not the same with Dr. Manhatten. [/spoiler:6678fa5b37]
Rawshark?analord said:
Also, ehm, Rorschach is mostly anger in the original novel.
[spoiler:adcc131032]Dr. Manhattan had an obvious public falling out with the USA, and also two major US cities got destroyed vs 1 Russian city, so it isn't like they'd realistically go 'US attack!!!'iridium_ionizer said:
The motivation is still there, as it is an external threat. No, this isn't as good as the alien invasion, but you cannot possibly drop in the alien invasion in a movie. It takes way too long to properly explain and just feels like a really, really stupid Deus ex Machina if you don't explain it properly.[/spoiler:adcc131032]
Just watched it, and I have to say, I'm thoroughly impressed. Apart from some really great visuals (though some scenes were unnecessarily bloody, too much for my tastes at the least) it really captured the spirit of the book and the underlying tone.
I can't really criticize it for not sticking to every single panel in the book, since it's an adaptation, not a recreation.
I could write a giant review etc., but suffice to say, it's a damn good movie, certainly one of the best to come out so far.
On a side note, I prefer movie's Veidt to the one from the graphic novel.
I can't really criticize it for not sticking to every single panel in the book, since it's an adaptation, not a recreation.
I could write a giant review etc., but suffice to say, it's a damn good movie, certainly one of the best to come out so far.
On a side note, I prefer movie's Veidt to the one from the graphic novel.
S
Stag
Guest
I don't really know what to say about the movie apart from the fact that I feel cheated. I just feel apathy. There was a lot to like in the movie, but theres just as many things that I would've changed. Usually not even major changes, but little tweaks.
*sigh*
EDIT: Teepo
*sigh*
EDIT: Teepo
It's mediocre nature leaves one feeling more empty than if it were an out-and-out bad movie.
Hrm.Sander said:
My point was why did he get pissy with Nite Owl 2 after their first exchange.
I guess it would be stupid to argue Rawshark is too angry in the movie. It just seems any moments of Rorschach exhibiting thought is cut into an emotion or another.
Rorschach for me in the movie is broken character who's most memorable characteristic is his bitchish anger. He has been cut and edited into a incoherently tragic character.
Why did he cry at the end?
The "Do not fight with monsters lest ye become a monster" aspect is completely thrown out with him. Replaced for an angry butchering.
Mikael Grizzly said:
See, its just ambiguous Ozy versus unambiguously evil Ozy for me.
I always found Ozy to be a pretty boring character. Because he wasn't suspiciously evil.
Where the movie fails is the over the top gore. If anybody was supposed to be overly violent it was Rorschach. It's kind of overshadowed by the other violent scenes.
iridium_ionizer
Mildly Dipped
I agree. I understand that the Silk Spectre and Night Owl would have to be good fighters to survive long enough on the streets (and in the graphic novel their "alley fight" showed them hitting thugs and drawing blood and possibly breaking bones), but they weren't supposed to be hurting people to punish them, it was to subdue them.analord said:
In the film they were better fighters than the best of UFC because they hardly even get their punches blocked, let alone receive even a scratch of damage from their enemies. And they certainly dish the punishment as evident from protruding broken bones. On top of that I found their fighting style was a bit bland - punch, kick, sweep the leg, repeat.
Anyone else notice how they took out most of the smoking?
For shame, the futuristic pipes\cigarettes are gone.
Still recall Comedian and his cigar though.
I know what you're saying. It comes off rather cartoonish. In the book it's supposed to give you the impression of a typical comic book with the gritty violence masked under it, but that notion is completely thrown out the window in the intro to the movie maybe because it's untranslatable. I really would've preferred if they kept to the same pace and proportion of the 12 chapter comic book.
The overall violence makes the Watchmen hard to take seriously. The movie should've taken a realistic approach to the action, as apposed to the matrix-y uber human kung-fu shit that everybody does.
But not looking at that, it just was a mediocre movie. I wish they would've spent longer making it.
For shame, the futuristic pipes\cigarettes are gone.
Still recall Comedian and his cigar though.
Ausdoerrt said:
I know what you're saying. It comes off rather cartoonish. In the book it's supposed to give you the impression of a typical comic book with the gritty violence masked under it, but that notion is completely thrown out the window in the intro to the movie maybe because it's untranslatable. I really would've preferred if they kept to the same pace and proportion of the 12 chapter comic book.
The overall violence makes the Watchmen hard to take seriously. The movie should've taken a realistic approach to the action, as apposed to the matrix-y uber human kung-fu shit that everybody does.
But not looking at that, it just was a mediocre movie. I wish they would've spent longer making it.
My Watchmen first impressions (no spoilers, dont worry)
My opinions, having seen it last night:
Cons
- The extra violence was unecesary. I love the director but I think his mind could not process the idea that the movie had a lot of sex and swearing yet only a moderate number of violent scenes.
- Also was not fond of watching Night Owl and Silk Spectre kill and maim goons. Isint that what makes Rorschack so awful?
- The music was too loud and too obvious.
- I love it when sex actually looks like sex (see The Wire) but the sex scene aboard Archie was painful to watch, I keep hearing that it was "played that way for laughts" but the entire audience was dead silent.
Pros
- Very nicely compressed, edited and adapted. Exactly what an adapatation should be, keep what is good and change the things that dont work in the theater such as the original "global threat" at the end.
- Good performances from actual actors instead of stars.
- Excellent visual effects, camera work and direction.
- The added intro sequence with the heroes through the ages was brilliant.
- They did not shy away from presenting where our country would be had certain people gotten their way, in other words in a conservative one party dictatorship.
- The period celebs where great, I especially loved seeing Henry Kissinger and even David Bowie.
- Comedian was great, in the comic I just never got him but on screen he was a great bipolar monster.
- Dr. Manhattan is great, very much the ultimate expression of purely pragmatic, scientific thought and how it takes nothing of human nature into account.
My opinions, having seen it last night:
Cons
- The extra violence was unecesary. I love the director but I think his mind could not process the idea that the movie had a lot of sex and swearing yet only a moderate number of violent scenes.
- Also was not fond of watching Night Owl and Silk Spectre kill and maim goons. Isint that what makes Rorschack so awful?
- The music was too loud and too obvious.
- I love it when sex actually looks like sex (see The Wire) but the sex scene aboard Archie was painful to watch, I keep hearing that it was "played that way for laughts" but the entire audience was dead silent.
Pros
- Very nicely compressed, edited and adapted. Exactly what an adapatation should be, keep what is good and change the things that dont work in the theater such as the original "global threat" at the end.
- Good performances from actual actors instead of stars.
- Excellent visual effects, camera work and direction.
- The added intro sequence with the heroes through the ages was brilliant.
- They did not shy away from presenting where our country would be had certain people gotten their way, in other words in a conservative one party dictatorship.
- The period celebs where great, I especially loved seeing Henry Kissinger and even David Bowie.
- Comedian was great, in the comic I just never got him but on screen he was a great bipolar monster.
- Dr. Manhattan is great, very much the ultimate expression of purely pragmatic, scientific thought and how it takes nothing of human nature into account.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Re: My Watchmen first impressions (no spoilers, dont worry)
It all depends on what theater you're viewing it in, what one may find hilarious another might find stupid or boring. The theater I was in found the scene hilarious, probably because of the music and certainly the flamethrower (found that amusing the in comic myself). I think they left out the funniest part which is Nite Owl verbally confessing that he feels impotent without costumes.lugaru said:
The Guardian
It Wandered In From the Wastes
iridium_ionizer
Mildly Dipped
analord said:
Anyone else notice how an instrumental version of "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" orginally by Tears for Fears played lightly in the background of one of Ozymandias' (aka Adrian Veidt's) scenes.