Why is walking seemingly the only method of transportation?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by ElloinmorninJ, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Still Mildly Glowing

    237
    Jun 25, 2019
    Just a random thing I noticed. The majority of travel is carried out by walking, which doesn’t seem too efficient. They use Brahmin to carry their stuff, and I get horses are apparently supposed to be extinct, but why havent any factions tried to domesticate some type of useful riding animal (two-headed horse?) or vehicles (bike?)
     
  2. Ugly Kid

    Ugly Kid minrcaft i play minercaft

    103
    May 9, 2018
    Well in the lore, the NCR and the Legion have tons of vehicles, of course the BoS also stole vertibird schematics from the Enclave and somehow the NCR also got a hold of at least one vertibird as well. So I think there are tons of vehicles and mounts in the lore, but it's too hard for bethesda to make them in-game, even though they made mounts for Elder Scrolls.
     
  3. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Kali Yuga Jamboree Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Because animations are expensive.
     
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  4. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Which game? FO3? I think it has to do with collision checking for vehicles, the environments not being really suited for cars, NPC combat AI would have to distinguish PCs inside a vehicle... and this:


    *But it's possible to mod it in to varying degrees.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  5. Black Prince

    Black Prince The Fool on the Hill

    55
    Jul 8, 2020
    In what we see in the game? The Gamebyro/Creation Engine shits itself when it has to do anything like that. Also the scale of the map is so condensed that it wouldn't make very much sense to have it. I know the guys working on The Frontier put together some vehicles, which look pretty fair as far as modders go. But I know Bethesda would be a little anal about the way the vehicles work. I just don't think the game can support things like that.

    One thing I would like to see - even if it will probably never happen - is a return to/a fusion of the system in Fallouts 1 and 2. A theoretically large game world, with individual cells representing towns and cities in a proper scale. Sure, it would remove the "wandering the wastes" thing, but in reality how many people actually do this? I feel like most people, after a first run through, are going to fast travel. Random encounters and such can be dealt with like in the originals. I feel like this system would allow for vehicles (obviously) and for a better sense of scale of communities in the game.

    A man can dream.
     
  6. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Well the engine itself certainly can... I mean they shipped a Speed Racer game using Gamebryo, but like I said, the maps are not really well suited for it.

    Also they would really have to rework the combat AI; and have support for melee on car attacks.
    bad_idea.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  7. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    Well, for animals it just seems there isn't any species that survived or mutated into something rideable. Brahmin Carts might be a thing but it seems their travel speed is not much faster, if not slower, than a human.

    As for vehicles, to me it always made sense they'd be scarce post-war as the world did end due to a lack of resources to fuel such things, and implicitly microfusion powered cars were probably uncommon. Still, we know post war vehicles exist. Enough to warrant Reno's "chop shop" and according to the Fallout Bible enough for NCR to have a vehicular division, albeit small and apparently made up mostly of slow moving farming vehicles. Additionally we're told that NCR drove trucks into the Mojave.

    Trains are another method of transport, but with centuries of decay the NCR is having to either rebuild or entirely newly construct the lines, so it's a work in progress.
     
  8. Tribalus Maximus

    Tribalus Maximus First time out of the vault

    20
    Dec 27, 2018
    Cars were suposed to play bigger role. There is mention about car combat in Fallout Bible. There are plenty of car mechanic in F2 (the Den, New Reno, NCR). In FT we get a tank! A M4a3 Sherman, and a driving skill but I don't know what It did.

    It was dropped afterwards.

    I guess they went with simpler road, didn't want to put a GTA-clone on the market. Bethesda chose to make less developed post war world.

    Is there a Mad Max game? I think there is. The one from 2015. So it would look like GTA-MadMax-Fallout something. Still better than F76.
     
  9. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Fallout 2 got a car up and running and there's that scene in Reno which indicates to me that there are other cars out there operating and in Tactics they had vehicles.
     
  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Definitely limitations at the time but I also wonder how well vehicles would work other than faster means of transport (vehicles should probably have been the "Fast Travel" method, get a vehicle and you can fast travel between locations).

    Going a bit off topic but some kind of vehicle gameplay system/vehicle combat system should have been possible, taking place between the various "location cells". I am not sure how much fun it would be though.
    As for in cells itself. Well it worked in Tactics because most of the maps are combats maps though some are of course more designed for on foot travel than vehicle travel.
    But in cells more like those of Fallout 1 and 2 vehicles would be of much more limited use as you can not move them through the locations (and why would you) and also gameplay altering (players would want to use the vehicle to ram into an enemy during a fight or perhaps have a heavy gun added to it to use in fights). Surface locations would have to completely be design to keep the use of vehicles in mind, for travel and possible combat.
    Not saying that that is a bad idea but I am not sure how much fun it is as it sounds more fitting for a tactical strategy game.

    I had been thinking that it would have been interesting to see "turreted" weapons that are used by the enemy but can also be used by the player and companion but what skill would be the most useful for that? (and manually controlled turreted weapons would probably be rare, is it worth investing points into that)

    In Fallout 3, NV, 5, (and 76?) other than that I don't know how well the engine handles it (it should probably be able to do so), and that in lore that working vehicles are rare (yeah I know I have not brought up domesticated riding animals yet), I think it would also be a bit more gameplay breaking.
    Now these games aren't as "hard" RPG as Fallout 1 and 2 were, Fallout 4 and 76 moving more away from it, but having drive-able vehicles would make it more of a GTA clone (or Rage?).
    Also would the player have to watch out for NPC driven vehicles not to be hit by them while they are on a road or perhaps even be able to hijack vehicles?
    Personally I already had my doubts when in Fallout 4 I was a gunner onboard a BOS vertibird shooting down Super Mutants and a behemoth as I felt that this was more something for a dedicated FPS game.
    This is a good example why I feel "marrying" the Fallout franchise with a FPS/FPA style gameplay has not been for the best and this continuous effort to make it more of an action game series

    It is the same kind of with riding animals, for transport I would not see a problem (just the screen fades and you arrive at the spot of the map where you want to go), but what if their use expands beyond that into combat?
     
  11. Tribalus Maximus

    Tribalus Maximus First time out of the vault

    20
    Dec 27, 2018
    We had thought, at one starry-eyed point, that the car would be something that you could upgrade with more speed, armor, weapons, etc. and that it could be a more important part of the game—well, the engine and programmer tasking weren't up to the idea of having a moving vehicle (madness, I know) in the game so all of that went out the window.

    Quote from Fallout Bible 8 regarding usage of cars in game.

    One thing would be implementing car combat in isometric turn based. It was done in FT but I don't recall was it any good, I think not. Eh, only if F2 devs were given much more time to work on, like 2-3 years.

    As of F3+. Well It would be less RPG more FPS or action reflex game no doubt.
     
  12. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Vehicle combat could (in theory) have either worked as greater armor & weaponry during a relatively stationary fight, or perhaps fights could have been made to happen on the road at highway speeds; where falling from a vehicle counts a fleeing with injury (removing from combat), but otherwise still turn based with conventional attacks as well as vehicular attacks, and change of position.
    TBVC_zpsealvx5vl.gif
     
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  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    How you describe it Gizmojunk and that gif this actually sounds quite interested and I would not have minded how it could have been implemented in a more traditional Fallout game.
     
  14. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    The original Jason Mical 2.0 PnP has a section on vehicular combat. I never gave it a proper read over because I decided to exclude it entirely when designing my system, but that might have some insight into the particulars of how a system like that would work.
     
  15. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    Palladium Books: Heroes Unlimited RPG, has a complete vehicle construction ruleset; also in their Roadhogs TMNT supplemental.
     
  16. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Bethesda can't even do ladders and this guy wants to see cars.
     
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  17. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android A Smooth-Skin

    656
    Jun 7, 2015
    I think its good that motor vehicles have been fairly limited in the setting, it serves to distinguish it from Mad Max. Though it would be cool if it was touched upon more heavily in at least one game, and you could have some fun with just doing direct Mad Max rips filtered through the setting so long as it remains fairly limited.
     
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  18. Eshanas

    Eshanas A Smooth-Skin

    694
    Jul 6, 2016
    With how big worlds can be of late, I don't see why you can't wander a big space. GTAV, Red Dead II, Mad Max, Just Cause, all those to come to mind with big scapes, vehicle movement, and shooting action. What with how many settlements are ten or twenty meters big anyway a 20km scale map would feel massive when you condense it down, along with the tricks of terrain, most cities being 'destroyed' and are just ruins and rubble piles divided and cut up into smaller segments and a horizon to 'hide' things.

    Hell NV has like what, 20, 30, percent of the map 'unused'?

    The real factor is the damn engine Beth uses.
     
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  19. KingArthur

    KingArthur The John Doe of NMA

    Jun 25, 2018
    To parrot what everyone else said, Gambryo would fucking implode if you tried to add more vehicles than the odd “plot point vertibird”.

    That being said, Bethesda should try it. Do it, you pussies. Destroy your engine. At least then you’ll have to try another, probably more stable and less fugly one.
     
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  20. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Half-way Through My Half-life

    Nov 26, 2007
    I never had any real peeve with their engine; only with the the way that they chose to use it.