TheGM
The voice of reason
FO4 had those veritbirds always crashing into shit, even those drones in 76 that just go up and down wig out and crash all the time.
Why is walking seemingly the only method of transportation?
- Thread starter ElloinmorninJ
- Start date
D
Deleted member 98605
Guest
Also in-universe and IRL let's remember that even a Bicycle is 'advanced' technology that requires rubbers, chains, gears, mechanism, and a workforce that is basically a frivolity to produce.
A motorcycle requires a power source, luckily we seem to be ontop of mountains of rechargeable energy cells or even Fusion Cells but even then you'll want the cell in a hospital, a bedroom, a office, then maybe to vehicles and guns. The Wasteland isn't green enough, nor productive enough, to produce ethanol via corn; oil of course is right out.
A car is more of the same but now there's more shit to look after on a bigger scale.
A APC, AFV, Tank, and likewise just expedite that even more.
Steam, wood-steam or coal, is right out, though coal is apparently mined in Montana, but probably for personal use; such as we see with the Medieval Chinese who mined coal and knew it could heat shit up easily.
The earliest known vehicle is a Ox-Drawn cart; but Bighorners lay down if you put a pack on them so you're stuck with Brahmin for that.
Rafts, Catamarans, Dugouts, Canoes, Galleys even are easier but there's no civilization of any worth or note on the oceans for the *demand*, most people would just take a old boat and row it or put a battery in it and it's still fine; though in the Far, Far Future of Fallout I can surmise that maybe slews of Thalassocracies might emerge in the PNW, Far East Asia, and the like if wood and metal suffice and you have the population for rowers.
We have no horses and the impact of that will be immense. No Chariots. No Cavalry. No Knights. No Lancers, Horse Archers, Cataphracts, Outriders, Pistoliers, Demigunners, whatever. Horses were also used for public transport, goods transport, fieldwork. Our civilization basically started because the Yamana grabbed the horse, bred stronger ones, and either sold themselves as charioteers or took over as charioteers and then cavalry emerged later. (You could have Donkey-Mule Chariots and War Carts but we don't see them either).
Trains are still in use, probably again pre-war battery powered tech; and the NCR has the ability to make new tracks and hopefully new cars. By this the NCR could reinforce their gains and build a strong network akin to Pre-Automobile Crazy America where every damn county and town had a railroad.
Aircraft of course raise the complexity of their inner workings and cost on a society double or tenfold. Everyone is using Zeppelins, Dirigibles, Blimps, and Vertibirds; the first three might be 'easier' to construct but still require hydrogen or helium or somesuch else gas to be extracted and Vertibirds are probably built to be as rugged and adapatable as can be, with the drawbacks of a low payload, low armor, lowish speed, but hey you can fly in a steel chassis with miniguns and rockets and the enemy mostly cannot.
A motorcycle requires a power source, luckily we seem to be ontop of mountains of rechargeable energy cells or even Fusion Cells but even then you'll want the cell in a hospital, a bedroom, a office, then maybe to vehicles and guns. The Wasteland isn't green enough, nor productive enough, to produce ethanol via corn; oil of course is right out.
A car is more of the same but now there's more shit to look after on a bigger scale.
A APC, AFV, Tank, and likewise just expedite that even more.
Steam, wood-steam or coal, is right out, though coal is apparently mined in Montana, but probably for personal use; such as we see with the Medieval Chinese who mined coal and knew it could heat shit up easily.
The earliest known vehicle is a Ox-Drawn cart; but Bighorners lay down if you put a pack on them so you're stuck with Brahmin for that.
Rafts, Catamarans, Dugouts, Canoes, Galleys even are easier but there's no civilization of any worth or note on the oceans for the *demand*, most people would just take a old boat and row it or put a battery in it and it's still fine; though in the Far, Far Future of Fallout I can surmise that maybe slews of Thalassocracies might emerge in the PNW, Far East Asia, and the like if wood and metal suffice and you have the population for rowers.
We have no horses and the impact of that will be immense. No Chariots. No Cavalry. No Knights. No Lancers, Horse Archers, Cataphracts, Outriders, Pistoliers, Demigunners, whatever. Horses were also used for public transport, goods transport, fieldwork. Our civilization basically started because the Yamana grabbed the horse, bred stronger ones, and either sold themselves as charioteers or took over as charioteers and then cavalry emerged later. (You could have Donkey-Mule Chariots and War Carts but we don't see them either).
Trains are still in use, probably again pre-war battery powered tech; and the NCR has the ability to make new tracks and hopefully new cars. By this the NCR could reinforce their gains and build a strong network akin to Pre-Automobile Crazy America where every damn county and town had a railroad.
Aircraft of course raise the complexity of their inner workings and cost on a society double or tenfold. Everyone is using Zeppelins, Dirigibles, Blimps, and Vertibirds; the first three might be 'easier' to construct but still require hydrogen or helium or somesuch else gas to be extracted and Vertibirds are probably built to be as rugged and adapatable as can be, with the drawbacks of a low payload, low armor, lowish speed, but hey you can fly in a steel chassis with miniguns and rockets and the enemy mostly cannot.
That post gave me the idea of Brahmin chariots and now I’m pissed they’re not a thing.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
It's actually in the lore that there is a lone island somewhere that still has horses and birds and other animals. No, wait that was Waterworld. That would have been a good RPG.
I already model certain RPG characters I make after Kevin Costner tbh.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
But really Fallout Tactics made it clear that vehicles can be used. It's just stupid lore reasons due to shitty game engines made by shitty game designers. Adding vehicles to Fallout is inevitable and it will turn out that people were using them the whole time due to retcons and NCR had a big vehicle war with the Khans back before New Vegas happened because reasons. Pipboy downloadable in Mario Kart soon no doubt.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Or this for that matter: (An old cycle powered by an auto-axe)
Rad Scorpion
Creepy Crawler
Skyrim has horses, I think Fallout 5 can have them too. Or some radioactive analogue, like giant dogs xD.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
There is something in the pre-Bethesda lore about the loss of horses; NV got a bit of flak for this in the Collector's edition comic book, because it had horse riders in it.
Chance remembers cavalry at the Bitter Springs Massacre, right? It’s been so long since I’ve read that.
Iprovidelittlepianos
Vault Senior Citizen
Apparently the writers intended “cavalry” to mean “mechanized cavalry”, but the illustrators didn’t get the message.
Iprovidelittlepianos
Vault Senior Citizen
StopSigntheVendingMachine
narcissistic sociopath
A more recent video than I remembered. Hope it helps:
I always figured that cars were "extinct" with all knowledge of repairing and operating them hasn't been passed down through the generations and that those who somehow do know how don't have the all parts needed to create one. Even Smitty has you search for a Fuel Cell Regulator to start the Highwayman. Even with this assumption, every posters' response is justified:
Why not mounted animals?
The only Wasteland creature I can think of that could serve this purpose are Yao Guai. Rad Stags? Maybe. A wandering merchant in Fallout 3 is seen with a pet 'Guai; proving they can be domesticated, even if it's the only example. Brahmin are already domesticated but they're slow. Riding one wouldn't make you go faster than you would walking beside it in a caravan. Easy Pete says that Big Horners are "stubborn". They're shown to be as territorial as any other animal and domesticated, but his story says they refuse to carry caravan packs, so it goes without saying they also won't tolerate a human on their backs. Whether it was a lazy plot device or not, a majority of the Earth's animal kingdom are extinct, including horses ... but not robot horses ...
Maybe not make large, motorized Giddy Up Buttercups, but robot chariots or parts of other, preexisting robots mashed together, hollowed out into a wheelchair or cart or something, like in Mama Murphy's concept art. However, if people were to create vehicles out of robots, they might as well take the time to seek out textbooks and manuals on real automobiles. But they don't. And now we're back at square one, which brings up another common response, and the most reasonable:
The Gamebryo engine can't handle working vehicles
Maybe, but there are lots of mods for 3 and New Vegas of cars that can be physically driven. Fallout 4's VertiBirds are actually ride-able to be more "immersive" but they crash so much, they can crash the game! What the two iterations of Gamebryo share between 3, NV, 4, and 76 are cells. The games black-screen to locations that are inside a building or behind a wall from opening a door, so why not do the same with a car door? Bethesda could simply treat vehicles as cells that load any location from a menu and it would be less of a strain on the already fragile game engine ...
But they don't. And now we're back at square one.
Please allow me to play the devil's advocate: maybe the exclusion of cars aren't just because of software limitations but was a purposeful game play choice? Could players cheese their way through the modern Wasteland with them? In order to bring back working vehicles into Fallout in a way that makes them valuable tools for players, one of two things needs to happen:
Revitalize the classic Fast Travel system where every location is it's own map; miles upon miles apart from each other on a World Map where the empty space is a Random Encounter generator. Or,
Make one REALLY, REALLY HUGE Open World.
Which one breaks Gamebryo first? I don't know, but I don't think Bethesda would break from the standard Open World format of RPGs anytime soon. Does anyone here think that vehicles that black-screen the game and teleport you to your destination is a good alternative?
I always figured that cars were "extinct" with all knowledge of repairing and operating them hasn't been passed down through the generations and that those who somehow do know how don't have the all parts needed to create one. Even Smitty has you search for a Fuel Cell Regulator to start the Highwayman. Even with this assumption, every posters' response is justified:
Why not mounted animals?
The only Wasteland creature I can think of that could serve this purpose are Yao Guai. Rad Stags? Maybe. A wandering merchant in Fallout 3 is seen with a pet 'Guai; proving they can be domesticated, even if it's the only example. Brahmin are already domesticated but they're slow. Riding one wouldn't make you go faster than you would walking beside it in a caravan. Easy Pete says that Big Horners are "stubborn". They're shown to be as territorial as any other animal and domesticated, but his story says they refuse to carry caravan packs, so it goes without saying they also won't tolerate a human on their backs. Whether it was a lazy plot device or not, a majority of the Earth's animal kingdom are extinct, including horses ... but not robot horses ...
Maybe not make large, motorized Giddy Up Buttercups, but robot chariots or parts of other, preexisting robots mashed together, hollowed out into a wheelchair or cart or something, like in Mama Murphy's concept art. However, if people were to create vehicles out of robots, they might as well take the time to seek out textbooks and manuals on real automobiles. But they don't. And now we're back at square one, which brings up another common response, and the most reasonable:
The Gamebryo engine can't handle working vehicles
Maybe, but there are lots of mods for 3 and New Vegas of cars that can be physically driven. Fallout 4's VertiBirds are actually ride-able to be more "immersive" but they crash so much, they can crash the game! What the two iterations of Gamebryo share between 3, NV, 4, and 76 are cells. The games black-screen to locations that are inside a building or behind a wall from opening a door, so why not do the same with a car door? Bethesda could simply treat vehicles as cells that load any location from a menu and it would be less of a strain on the already fragile game engine ...
But they don't. And now we're back at square one.
Please allow me to play the devil's advocate: maybe the exclusion of cars aren't just because of software limitations but was a purposeful game play choice? Could players cheese their way through the modern Wasteland with them? In order to bring back working vehicles into Fallout in a way that makes them valuable tools for players, one of two things needs to happen:
Revitalize the classic Fast Travel system where every location is it's own map; miles upon miles apart from each other on a World Map where the empty space is a Random Encounter generator. Or,
Make one REALLY, REALLY HUGE Open World.
Which one breaks Gamebryo first? I don't know, but I don't think Bethesda would break from the standard Open World format of RPGs anytime soon. Does anyone here think that vehicles that black-screen the game and teleport you to your destination is a good alternative?
Last edited:
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
Why there isn't other forms of transportation is down to 2 things, the knowledge to build and maintain the vehicles and their infrastructure and the infrastructure itself. As much as buildings in the Fallout universe are made of things that don't degrade over 200+ years, they would degrade eventually. One place I hike has a road that has been out of service for about 12 years now and parts of it aren't passable anymore and all of it is rough. How would a society that basically lacks a nation state going to build and maintain roads, especially considering tar is an oil product? Also most roads in the US are a drain on resources to keep in a passable state of disrepair, the NCR frankly barely has the resources to field a military, building roads for cars would be difficult to put it nicely.
Trains would be easier to maintain if you're a country, but that would also assume that someone knows how to build and maintain new mainlines, the trains and can generate the electricity to power them. I know fusion power is a thing in the Fallout universe and trains were fusion powered, but from a train perspective, overhead wires are and the associated engines are easier than putting a generator on every single train.
So what I am saying is that it would make sense that once a country has hit a certain level of development, like having a group of civil engineers and stable power, that they would build a rail network. The problem is, the Fallout games generally take place in areas that are more the frontier than the heartland of a well established power. So the NCR probably has trains going in and out of the Boneyard and Shady Sands, but not much else.
Trains would be easier to maintain if you're a country, but that would also assume that someone knows how to build and maintain new mainlines, the trains and can generate the electricity to power them. I know fusion power is a thing in the Fallout universe and trains were fusion powered, but from a train perspective, overhead wires are and the associated engines are easier than putting a generator on every single train.
So what I am saying is that it would make sense that once a country has hit a certain level of development, like having a group of civil engineers and stable power, that they would build a rail network. The problem is, the Fallout games generally take place in areas that are more the frontier than the heartland of a well established power. So the NCR probably has trains going in and out of the Boneyard and Shady Sands, but not much else.
PsychoSniper
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Ok we know there is an auto scene in the wastes, but it's limited mostly to the NCR and the families in Reno, yes you have the car in the Den and the guy on the outskirts of Shady Sands in FO2 who will sell you a blower, but the bulk of it is based around the biggest goverment in the region.
You need more than MF cells, or a way to recharge them, you need parts and maintainers to keep a fleet operational.
The chosen ones highwayman in FO2 was more of a stroke of luck, right time right place and you get a broken down car running again.
Now, that said, I could see some raider bands having vehicles in small numbers, but they would also attract a lot of NCR attention unless they only used them to get their forces near a target.
As for individuals, honestly I mostly see motorcycles and bicycles being the most common mode of rapid transport.
Bikes would be common enough salvage that working ones could be readily cobbled together, and motorcycles would be more of a travel method for those with more caps. Or raiders.
Of course the other problem is that once it gets shot up enough its gona have to be abandoned in place, and may be stripped of parts by the time you get back with the needed parts for repair, this further makes using them harder when your by yourself, excepting a regular bike or motorcycle.
Honestly I think a bike would be the most reasonable compromise given the engines massive limitations, and even then you'd have to get off and risk it being stolen once you got in a fight.
Now that said, I could also see smaller towns a group of towns having vehicles for trade and transport of defense troops similar to the NCR, pooling resources makes it far easier, but once again it depends on the scale of the operator.... plus clearing roads would take more than a lone person could do readily.
Actually a bike mod for new vegas would be pretty cool, standard speed being a bit faster than a sprint and sprint speed being twice as fast. Probably couldnt code it to go slower up hills tho, probably not roll down hills either.
Honestly I wish Bethesda would either go back to the classic cell system of FO/FO2 or quit compressing the game maps so much.
A Bethesda Fallout game with a huuuuuge ass map would make vehicles doable and be pretty fun to explore on a bicycle, you could even craft a small engine that uses small energy cells for it.
You need more than MF cells, or a way to recharge them, you need parts and maintainers to keep a fleet operational.
The chosen ones highwayman in FO2 was more of a stroke of luck, right time right place and you get a broken down car running again.
Now, that said, I could see some raider bands having vehicles in small numbers, but they would also attract a lot of NCR attention unless they only used them to get their forces near a target.
As for individuals, honestly I mostly see motorcycles and bicycles being the most common mode of rapid transport.
Bikes would be common enough salvage that working ones could be readily cobbled together, and motorcycles would be more of a travel method for those with more caps. Or raiders.
Of course the other problem is that once it gets shot up enough its gona have to be abandoned in place, and may be stripped of parts by the time you get back with the needed parts for repair, this further makes using them harder when your by yourself, excepting a regular bike or motorcycle.
Honestly I think a bike would be the most reasonable compromise given the engines massive limitations, and even then you'd have to get off and risk it being stolen once you got in a fight.
Now that said, I could also see smaller towns a group of towns having vehicles for trade and transport of defense troops similar to the NCR, pooling resources makes it far easier, but once again it depends on the scale of the operator.... plus clearing roads would take more than a lone person could do readily.
Actually a bike mod for new vegas would be pretty cool, standard speed being a bit faster than a sprint and sprint speed being twice as fast. Probably couldnt code it to go slower up hills tho, probably not roll down hills either.
Honestly I wish Bethesda would either go back to the classic cell system of FO/FO2 or quit compressing the game maps so much.
A Bethesda Fallout game with a huuuuuge ass map would make vehicles doable and be pretty fun to explore on a bicycle, you could even craft a small engine that uses small energy cells for it.