Wilderness Search Realism for Fallout 3

[Sander]

Sander, realism does not make fiction dated. Just look at Hemingway/ For Whom the Bell Tolls is still rlevant today and describes covert ops realities today as it was back in the 1930's.[/qoute]
Exactly. In the '30s. Which means the fiction gets dated to that period. That doesn't mean people can't take away something useful from it, but it does mean that it's dated.

That's why FICTION stories like Somerset Maugham's Ashenden, the British Agent was requird reading at the OSS school a generation after its publication. It's the surface realism of detail that makes fiction dated. Untrue truths, true lies. The essence of realism.

Untrue truths and true lies? For fuck's sake, man, make some fucking sense.

Forget the Million Dollar license, you can get eround it, by sticking to non-commercial and community oriented. How much money would it take to bring all the mods and After The Fall to palyable completion?

A lot, or nothing at all.

Consider using the offshore labor.

*sigh*
Why do you persist in thinking you have a clue about software development? You can't just give a project to some foreign development company and say 'Here, go fix!' You need consistent, very solid communication, design docs only interpretable in one way, an established architecture etc. etc. etc. In the end, outsourcing software development often costs companies just as much money as just doing it in-house.

You get around the fan base eating itself by eatablishing the protocol for fan rights and getting the overwhelming majority to agree on the Fallout conventions, which designers must use as protocol. How many ARE there in the NMA community and how much money are they willing to put up for the F3 -clone project? Has anybody tried canvassing them?

This isn't the first time this retarded idea has come up, Akudin. And yes, it's retarded. You can't just go 'Here's a protocol, we'll do this!!!' and then ask for money.

You *could* create an entire heavily detailed design doc and then start asking for money to avoid a load of shit, but the money you would get wouldn't be near enough to complete a professional game. So then, you're left with a fan-made project.

Oh, wait, we already have a ton of those!

To anbody doubting this idea, I suggest you look at Tim Yohanan and the MAXIMUMROCKNROLL zine, at its heyday, when he was still alive in the late 80's and early 90's. He ran it as a non-profit foundation for DIY left leaning punk rockers, that was inspired by the 50 somethings, written by the 30 somethings for the teen age somethings. He dutifully accounted for all the funds that he received? mostly from the sales of his zine. His fund maintained about 150 grand in its coffers. Would THAT amount be enough to produce F3 or are you going toa rgue against THAT as well???

No, actually, that amount would not be enough to produce Fo3 either.
Tim Yohanan had the advantage of leading a project by himself and getting to do whatever he wanted. People were satisfied with work. However, in the case of a Fallout 3 this b

 

[Sander]

Sander, realism does not make fiction dated. Just look at Hemingway/ For Whom the Bell Tolls is still rlevant today and describes covert ops realities today as it was back in the 1930's.[/qoute]
Exactly. In the '30s. Which means the fiction gets dated to that period. That doesn't mean people can't take away something useful from it, but it does mean that it's dated.

That's why FICTION stories like Somerset Maugham's Ashenden, the British Agent was requird reading at the OSS school a generation after its publication. It's the surface realism of detail that makes fiction dated. Untrue truths, true lies. The essence of realism.

Untrue truths and true lies? For fuck's sake, man, make some fucking sense.

Forget the Million Dollar license, you can get eround it, by sticking to non-commercial and community oriented. How much money would it take to bring all the mods and After The Fall to palyable completion?

A lot, or nothing at all.

Consider using the offshore labor.

*sigh*
Why do you persist in thinking you have a clue about software development? You can't just give a project to some foreign development company and say 'Here, go fix!' You need consistent, very solid communication, design docs only interpretable in one way, an established architecture etc. etc. etc. In the end, outsourcing software development often costs companies just as much money as just doing it in-house.

You get around the fan base eating itself by eatablishing the protocol for fan rights and getting the overwhelming majority to agree on the Fallout conventions, which designers must use as protocol. How many ARE there in the NMA community and how much money are they willing to put up for the F3 -clone project? Has anybody tried canvassing them?

This isn't the first time this retarded idea has come up, Akudin. And yes, it's retarded. You can't just go 'Here's a protocol, we'll do this!!!' and then ask for money.

You *could* create an entire heavily detailed design doc and then start asking for money to avoid a load of shit, but the money you would get wouldn't be near enough to complete a professional game. So then, you're left with a fan-made project.

Oh, wait, we already have a ton of those!

To anbody doubting this idea, I suggest you look at Tim Yohanan and the MAXIMUMROCKNROLL zine, at its heyday, when he was still alive in the late 80's and early 90's. He ran it as a non-profit foundation for DIY left leaning punk rockers, that was inspired by the 50 somethings, written by the 30 somethings for the teen age somethings. He dutifully accounted for all the funds that he received? mostly from the sales of his zine. His fund maintained about 150 grand in its coffers. Would THAT amount be enough to produce F3 or are you going toa rgue against THAT as well???

No, actually, that amount would not be enough to produce Fo3 either.
Tim Yohanan had the advantage of leading a project by himself and getting to do whatever he wanted. People were satisfied with work. However, in the case of a Fallout 3 this becomes nigh impossible. You have to first find a project leader everyone can agree one, who is trustworthy with the money, you have to deal with the fact that the money comes from many different international sources, taxes etc.

 

[Akudin]

Sander, you knew Tim? To those that don't know, he led a DIY punk rock music collective in the San Fran Bay area. He had a great collection of indie-garage music from the sixties and scores of fringe type intellectuals. The colective lives on even after his death, though it became more intolerant and politically correct and half the music collection disappeared. None the less, his thing has outlived its maker.

With regards to community organized F3 all your arguments have been workable obstacles, things that can be overcome with planning and organisation. Who is talking anything about hiring a clueless offshore developemnt company. What about the folks in Poland who created After the Fall. Has anybody asked them how much money they need to develop the game professionally?

Consensus building worked to end civil wars and makes for effective law enforcement and good government, but it's not good enough to unite fans beind a new fallout game that will satisfy their desires? Have yoiu tried asking what the people would like to see, how much they are willing to pay for it and how many Fallout fans there are?

You talk about tax burdens, but not if you register the organisation as a non-profit organisation, which it would be, and have finances regularly audited with financial reports distributed to members. A bunch of prople can get a church congregation going out of a few bible study meetings but a bunch of computer literate educated fans can not come together behind a game they claim to love? Woukd you rather see Bethesda turn F3 into a first person shooter and bemoan that for a few years as a prelude to Fallout FOUR?
Again, finances, project ltadership, design and communication, as well as consensus building are all resolvable problems. You wouldn't know until you tried. Why are you so reluctant to apply what you did in F2 to real life? And what's wrong with taking all of the fan generated mods, making them user friendly as a dowloadable patch and adding that to F3?

 

[Sander]

With regards to community organized F3 all your arguments have been workable obstacles, things that can be overcome with planning and organisation. Who is talking anything about hiring a clueless offshore developemnt company. What about the folks in Poland who created After the Fall. Has anybody asked them how much money they need to develop the game professionally?

Bwahahaha.
They're having trouble developing their own game right now.
Other than that, it's never a question of 'Ehh.....I've got project, how much will it cost???' There's a lot more that comes into play there, including the fact that this does not make it any cheaper at all. It won't shave off tens of thousands of dollars, because all that money is lost in overhead again.

Consensus building worked to end civil wars and makes for effective law enforcement and good government, but it's not good enough to unite fans beind a new fallout game that will satisfy their desires? Have yoiu tried asking what the people would like to see, how much they are willing to pay for it and how many Fallout fans there are?

What, are you fucking blind? I said 'this has been brought up before'.
On that same note, have *you* asked? If not, WHY THE FUCK NOT? Because all you can do right now is complain about me/us not doing anything, while you yourself aren't doing anything either.

You talk about tax burdens, but not if you register the organisation as a non-profit organisation, which it would be, and have finances regularly audited with financial reports distributed to members.

Bullshit, there are always tax-problems and it also costs money to become a non-profit organisation in the first place. Furthermore, that doesn't eliminate anything about the fact that you're talking about international monetary agreements here, which are a problem in and of itself.

A bunch of prople can get a church congregation going out of a few bible study meetings but a bunch of computer literate educated fans can not come together behind a game they claim to love? Woukd you rather see Bethesda turn F3 into a first person shooter and bemoan that for a few years as a prelude to Fallout FOUR?

At this point I don't give a shit. If Bethesda is going to fuck this over, then that's *their* problem. It's not like we can just throw money at it and make it go away (which is what you seem to believe. Hah!)

Again, finances, project ltadership, design and communication, as well as consensus building are all resolvable problems.

Okay, resolve them, then.
Seriously. Go do it. And don't come back till you have, because this is getting tiresome.

You wouldn't know until you tried. Why are you so reluctant to apply what you did in F2 to real life?

....
Are you fucking serious? Can you really be this much of a retard? Are you actually comparing going through a few pre-scripted dialogue options in a game to setting up a million dollar software project through gathering funds from hundreds of people when the biggest fan-Fallout mod has maybe 20 people working on it, having those people all on the same level, in agreement about what they want when there hasn't been a single full-scale community mod out, a solid financial system and budget, outsourcing this project to make it 'cheaper', good leadership etc. etc. etc.

And what's wrong with taking all of the fan generated mods, making them user friendly as a dowloadable patch and adding that to F3?

...
What the fuck? What the hell are you even talking about here? What does this mean? What Fallout 3? And how would you add mods for a ten-year-old engine to a completely brand-new engine? That's just re-writing everything from scratch.

Fuck it, at this point I cannot believe you are doing anything but trolling. Banned.

 

[Morpoggel]

Well... he surely didn't have a single clue what-so-ever...

It was very exciting and interesting to watch though.

Well, let's just wait for the next one. So far we've had islands with silt beaches and tribals, realistic wilderness environments and long travel time and financial crap I didn't really bother to read... and probably the forum had some more of these idiotic threads... what's next?