Would you have supported renaming the Brahim if ..

[Ninja]

Now, I'm not the most devout Hindu. I'm basically atheist. I only go to temple once a year, and even then it's because they make the best goddamn pulihora I've ever eaten. But I do come from a Hindu background, and that gives me some sort of credibility right? Well, here's my take on this whole thing.

I don't give a fuck. Most people I know wouldn't give a fuck. The only exception is maybe a few devout Hindus, and even then, they're the kind of people who wouldn't even touch a video game, let alone Fallout. A renaming would be useless.

Honestly, hyper-PC attitudes irritate me more than being insensitive.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Does this offending term cause others go out and kill people because of how offended they are?
If so, I don't think the problem lies in the words and more in the people waiting on certain words in order to have an excuse to go be violent.

I mean shit, if you are getting offended because something is called the same as another thing you would probably burst out crying if you were Colombian, we haven't had a drug cartel in decades but we are still seen as Drug Land on most pieces of media. You just learn to not really give a shit.

There is a reason Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to do deplorable things like protest outside of people's funerals and stand on street corners yelling that all of us are going to Hell. It is because we have freedom of speech and expression. No one likes that they do that, but without that principle we would all be living in fear as many others do around the world. If you want to hurt artists and be culturally bankrupt the quickest way is to limit freedom of expression.

In my personal, humble, and respectful opinion: If I was so emotionally sensitive that the name of a cow in a video game caused me to be offended, I would seriously question myself rather than the video game. I don't think any reasonable person would think that Brian Fargo would name the cows Brahmin with any kind of malicious intent against the Hindu religion. It is the name of a breed of cattle, and really, look at it like this:

Those cows are literally the most valuable creatures in the Fallout universe. They do EVERYTHING. They provide not just sustenance in milk and food, but they are the only pack animals I have seen in the games. Without those creatures, the entire Fallout universe could die off in weeks.

 

[Laxite]

I have 6 points to make over the last several posts:
1> Firstly Bethesda surely knows its audience and it seems to be large enough that they would think numbers make something right as opposed to moral arguments.
2> I am not sure how many people actually did the exercise about substituting the Brahmin name with a priest of their religion or something they respect honestly without treating it as an opportunity to be witty or support their pre-made conviction.
3> About freedom of speech, I was taught freedom and responsibility are two sides of the same coin. The responsibility that comes with freedom of speech is not to unnecessarily step on others toes, it is not necessary for Fallout to continue to have this name when it is fully aware what it meant when it could not release Fallout 3 in India. The Church that says that people will go to Hell at funerals is dead wrong and two wrongs does not make one right.
4> About being violent etc. curious that someone offends someone else, continues to do so and then takes absolutely no responsibility for their actions. People go violent if they feel isolated and not understood, which is one the causes but not justification for their actions. However please Google and see how many Hindu terrorist you find, that will say something about Hindus and then search how many Indian terrorists you find, that will tell you how hindus (80% in India) behave towards other religions that are minority in India. So they expect similar treatment from others. (I found 5 terrorist attacks by Hindu groups, 10 from another religion and uncountable by yet another religion)
6>The argument that it is a video game is not valid (IMHO) as immersive games shape people's attitudes and perception. The argument that satisfying everyone will leave you a blank slate is valid (in my opinion), but I am not referring to small group of people. I am talking about 56 milliion Brahmins and 800 million Hindus. Yeah granted this is minuscule in comparison with all the beings is cosmos , as one post said, but not minuscule in comparison who can play a game like fallout 4 made for human beings. There will not be enough groups of this size to make Fallout a blank slate.

This all for arguments sake. I have moved on, but cannot resist a good argument.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I have moved on, but cannot resist a good argument.

You don't have a good argument. Everything you say is based on your personal opinion. Freedom of speech is written into law, it isn't what you think it SHOULD be. It's as simple as that.

This is a forum for discussing Fallout 4, not dredging up religious debates.

 

[Laxite]

Will post with "Quote"

 

[Walpknut]

"So, the game has wanton murder and slavery as plot points, but they call something with the same name as some religion calles their priests? WOW! THAT'S TOO FAR! I mean I haven't even played any of the other games but they should just rename things because I am personally offended!"

Okey dokey.

 

[Laxite]

I have moved on, but cannot resist a good argument.

You don't have a good argument. Everything you say is based on your personal opinion. Freedom of speech is written into law, it isn't what you think it SHOULD be. It's as simple as that.

This is a forum for discussing Fallout 4, not dredging up religious debates.

And likewise you have what you think is a good argument. Freedom of speech in is constitution agreed, but we all have the right to form opinion if a particular expression of it is "right" in our judgement. We have a different judgement on this.

 

[Walpknut]

Yet your opinion is that your personal feelings should overwrite the expression of others.

 

[Laxite]

Now, I'm not the most devout Hindu. I'm basically atheist. I only go to temple once a year, and even then it's because they make the best goddamn pulihora I've ever eaten. But I do come from a Hindu background, and that gives me some sort of credibility right? Well, here's my take on this whole thing.

I don't give a fuck. Most people I know wouldn't give a fuck. The only exception is maybe a few devout Hindus, and even then, they're the kind of people who wouldn't even touch a video game, let alone Fallout. A renaming would be useless.

Honestly, hyper-PC attitudes irritate me more than being insensitive.

I am sure you have voted your opinion in the poll.
Now I am not a devout Hindu either, I have not been to a temple in 5 years. I would not go to a temple just to eat, it is more than 20 miles from where I live. I have Christmas Tree in my house right now. But I believe in basic teachings of Hinduism and they don't require me to go to any temple. I have been playing video games for many years, from Morrowind (best game IMHO), this is my first fallout game and the first time I thought any game has crossed a boundary.
By the way what is hyper-PC?

 

[Laxite]

Yet your opinion is that your personal feelings should overwrite the expression of others.

Not really, if you want I can flood this with plenty of yes votes to prove that it is not "just" my personal opinion. I understand most of the view points here. I would request that please give a thought to what I have been saying and if you really think more than one person would not think this way, if you really think it would be good to have a something that is against a group of people?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Now, I'm not the most devout Hindu. I'm basically atheist. I only go to temple once a year, and even then it's because they make the best goddamn pulihora I've ever eaten. But I do come from a Hindu background, and that gives me some sort of credibility right? Well, here's my take on this whole thing.

I don't give a fuck. Most people I know wouldn't give a fuck. The only exception is maybe a few devout Hindus, and even then, they're the kind of people who wouldn't even touch a video game, let alone Fallout. A renaming would be useless.

Honestly, hyper-PC attitudes irritate me more than being insensitive.

I am sure you have voted your opinion in the poll.
Now I am not a devout Hindu either, I have not been to a temple in 5 years. I would not go to a temple just to eat, it is more than 20 miles from where I live. I have Christmas Tree in my house right now. But I believe in basic teachings of Hinduism and they don't require me to go to any temple. I have been playing video games for many years, from Morrowind (best game IMHO), this is my first fallout game and the first time I thought any game has crossed a boundary.
By the way what is hyper-PC?

You love Morrowind... I cannot vote now.

 

[Walpknut]

Yet your opinion is that your personal feelings should overwrite the expression of others.

Not really, if you want I can flood this with plenty of yes votes to prove that it is not "just" my personal opinion. I understand most of the view points here. I would request that please give a thought to what I have been saying and if you really think more than one person would not think this way, if you really think it would be good to have a something that is against a group of people?

So you DO want your feelings to overwrite the expression of others... and you are citing imaginary numbers to prove that you are somehow in the right because you are the majority, despite the poll clearly showing that you aren't.... okay.

How exactly is this name even making you feel attacked? Did the games at any point attack Hindu people? Just because it has a name that is also used for priests? That makes you feel attacked? Man, you then don't want to play Shin Megami Tensei, you kill Hindu gods in that game, and in Digital Devil saga you kill Brahman.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yet your opinion is that your personal feelings should overwrite the expression of others.

Not really, if you want I can flood this with plenty of yes votes to prove that it is not "just" my personal opinion. I understand most of the view points here. I would request that please give a thought to what I have been saying and if you really think more than one person would not think this way, if you really think it would be good to have a something that is against a group of people?

So you DO want your feelings to overwrite the expression of others... and you are citing imaginary numbers to prove that you are somehow in the right because you are the majority, despite the poll clearly showing that you aren't.... okay.

How exactly is this name even making you feel attacked? Did the games at any point attack Hindu people? Just because it has a name that is also used for priests? That makes you feel attacked? Man, you then don't want to play Shin Megami Tensei, you kill Hindu gods in that game, and in Digital Devil saga you kill Brahman.

In this game Brahmin are in no ways shown in a bad or terrible way. They sustain life.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Well if it makes you feel better Fallout 3 was cancelled in India likely for this reason. So if you want to go ahead and write a strongly worded letter to Bethesda maybe they will go ahead and cancel all sales to India.

The rest of us in the free world will be enjoying the fact that our forms of art and entertainment aren't censored.

My advice is stay away from videogames, movies, books, and the internet because you will likely never cease being offended.

As Stephen Fry said: "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

 

[Laxite]

I have moved on, but cannot resist a good argument.

You don't have a good argument. Everything you say is based on your personal opinion. Freedom of speech is written into law, it isn't what you think it SHOULD be. It's as simple as that.

This is a forum for discussing Fallout 4, not dredging up religious debates.

And likewise you have what you think is a good argument. Freedom of speech in is constitution agreed, but we all have the right to form opinion if a particular expression of it is "right" in our judgement. We have a different judgement on this.

And check this out as well, one can claim that it comes with in the 'insulting words" exception:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States

 

[Dr Fallout]

Well if it makes you feel better Fallout 3 was cancelled in India likely for this reason. So if you want to go ahead and write a strongly worded letter to Bethesda maybe they will go ahead and cancel all sales to India.

The rest of us in the free world will be enjoying the fact that our forms of art and entertainment aren't censored.

My advice is stay away from videogames, movies, books, and the internet because you will likely never cease being offended.

As Stephen Fry said: "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

Ah Stephen Fry, a genius man.

 

[Walpknut]

I am offended by your insistence on forcing your feelings over people's expression. So now you gotta stop it.

 

[Laxite]

Yet your opinion is that your personal feelings should overwrite the expression of others.

Not really, if you want I can flood this with plenty of yes votes to prove that it is not "just" my personal opinion. I understand most of the view points here. I would request that please give a thought to what I have been saying and if you really think more than one person would not think this way, if you really think it would be good to have a something that is against a group of people?

So you DO want your feelings to overwrite the expression of others... and you are citing imaginary numbers to prove that you are somehow in the right because you are the majority, despite the poll clearly showing that you aren't.... okay.

How exactly is this name even making you feel attacked? Did the games at any point attack Hindu people? Just because it has a name that is also used for priests? That makes you feel attacked? Man, you then don't want to play Shin Megami Tensei, you kill Hindu gods in that game, and in Digital Devil saga you kill Brahman.

In this game Brahmin are in no ways shown in a bad or terrible way. They sustain life.

1> I am not saying the polls are wrong. I acknowledged that when i said Bethesda knows its audience. Were this audience to be expanded, it would tell a different story.
2> Thanks for pointing out to those video games. They will definitely not get my dollar.
3> Brahmins sustain life: Interesting point, really. Agree that a cow is not shown in a bad terrible way. You can kill it, eat its meat, use its hide, hold cow massacres, have cow jokes, great, no problem. But you cannot do that to a group of human beings. That is the point. (I don't plan to take the cannibal perk )

 

[Walpknut]

Posts like these make me so glad to be an atheist as I can experience new things without being held back by things imposed on me by dead people.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I have moved on, but cannot resist a good argument.

You don't have a good argument. Everything you say is based on your personal opinion. Freedom of speech is written into law, it isn't what you think it SHOULD be. It's as simple as that.

This is a forum for discussing Fallout 4, not dredging up religious debates.

And likewise you have what you think is a good argument. Freedom of speech in is constitution agreed, but we all have the right to form opinion if a particular expression of it is "right" in our judgement. We have a different judgement on this.

And check this out as well, one can claim that it comes with in the 'insulting words" exception:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States

If you actually think this falls within the category of hate speech I suggest you take it up with the Justice System instead of threatening to flood your own voting poll with Yes votes on this tiny little forum which has no power to change the name of the cows in the video game.