Would you have supported renaming the Brahim if ..

[Laxite]

CIV5 with its Great works of Art, Great works of Music and writings and excellent strategic depth being an example.

CIV 5 has a bug that portrays Ghandi and India as warmongering psychopaths and yet you were not offended by this, and instead were offended by the cows which are probably named after a well-known domestic breed of cattle.

Face it: you're just looking for something to be outraged at. And our laws are in place specifically to prevent people like this from demanding we all conform to their rules. This is on the exact same level as those people who were outraged over the Starbucks Christmas cups.

No dude, I am not looking for something to be outraged at. Gandhi's personality in CIV5 is not a bug. You can play him and choose to do none of those things. You know Gandhi loved Goat milk and cheese etc, but in CIV 5, it was not a goat that was called Gandhi, it was a human being. In CIV5 all nations are war mongering as we get to the end. The cattle was created in 1900 when India as country did not exist , Hindus were busy fighting muslims and the land was busy getting to independence, which it did without waging any war. I am sure no one will breed a Brahman cattle in this day and age, unless they specifically want to do that. If that is done, India will create a Pope brand of sheep in response and then the world will stop doing it.

I am not outraged by the Starbucks thing. Just saddened by it. I think if you want a Christmas cup, ask for a Christmas cup, if you want a Holiday cup, ask for a holiday cup. That is what true inclusivity means in my opinion, and I am not forcing it on you, just expressing it under 'Freedom of Speech'.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I am sure no one will breed a Brahman cattle in this day and age, unless they specifically want to do that. If that is done, India will create a Pope brand of sheep in response and then the world will stop doing it.

Oh really? I have some bad news for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman_(cattle)

From the page: "The Brahman is one of the most popular breeds of cattle intended for meat processing and is widely used in Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, United States, Colombia and Australia among many other places."

This is my last post on this matter. As far as I know, these forums are to discuss Fallout 4 and not to discuss religious debates. The brahmin in Fallout have been around since 1998, and you are picking 2015 to suddenly bring this up. There is a reason the other forums locked your posts.

 

[Laxite]

I am sure no one will breed a Brahman cattle in this day and age, unless they specifically want to do that. If that is done, India will create a Pope brand of sheep in response and then the world will stop doing it.

Oh really? I have some bad news for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman_(cattle)

From the page: "The Brahman is one of the most popular breeds of cattle intended for meat processing and is widely used in Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, United States, Colombia and Australia among many other places."

This is my last post on this matter. As far as I know, these forums are to discuss Fallout 4 and not to discuss religious debates. The brahmin in Fallout have been around since 1998, and you are picking 2015 to suddenly bring this up. There is a reason the other forums locked your posts.

The religious debate is needed because the original fallout used a religious hum icon, perhaps inadvertently, as a butcher-able deformed animal.
This was not corrected even after Bethesda knew about it at least since Fallout 3 release and did nothing.
So a corrective action should at least be debated. The US debate is here. India debate will start elsewhere since this is mainly a US board.
I am sure you did not read that the cattle was first bred in early 1900.
Even then it gives a legacy of 115 years, the fallout legacy is 17 years, the hindu legacy is 5000 years.
I brought it up in 2015 because this is the first fallout game played.
Bye.

 

[Jubal Quintus]

I am astounded that this thread has gone on this long.

It is apparent to any Fallout fan that brahmin were named after the brahma type cattle. Considering that Shady Sands was founded by the multi-ethnic peoples of Vault 15, it's likely that some of them influenced the naming of the mutated beasts. The fact that it shares the name with a type of priest is completely due to the fact that they both share the same etymology. It is not the priest that the cattle were named after, they and the priests both take their names from a shared etymological source.

Understanding the etymology of a word is key to solving the mystery of the thing that might offend you. In this case, there is no issue, the cattle and the priests are completely unrelated and the priests were in no way the inspiration from which the original creators of Fallout took the name.

Cheers.

 

[Walpknut]

Let him be offended, it seems to be really important for him to be offended, it's probably the highlight of his day, getting to complain about his feelings being hurt online regardless of any rational or logic argument.

 

[whirlingdervish]

I wonder if groups of Sufis are offended by the inclusion of dervishes in many games as some sort of paladinesque melee class..

 

[Laxite]

I am astounded that this thread has gone on this long.

It is apparent to any Fallout fan that brahmin were named after the brahma type cattle. Considering that Shady Sands was founded by the multi-ethnic peoples of Vault 15, it's likely that some of them influenced the naming of the mutated beasts. The fact that it shares the name with a type of priest is completely due to the fact that they both share the same etymology. It is not the priest that the cattle were named after, they and the priests both take their names from a shared etymological source.

Understanding the etymology of a word is key to solving the mystery of the thing that might offend you. In this case, there is no issue, the cattle and the priests are completely unrelated and the priests were in no way the inspiration from which the original creators of Fallout took the name.

Cheers.

I know that may be the case in Fallout. The brahma cattle was first bred in 1910-1920. The world reality then was different. Have seen it called Brahma and Brahman but not Brahmin. Also cattle is not a mass-media that reaches 100 million people in the form of entertainment, only as processed food which many don't care where it comes from. With wider reach, comes the responsibility and Bethesda has been aware of that since Fallout 3. All Br* words are ancient Sanskrit words and according to wikipedia they come from the root "Br". In Indo-European it is very seldom that a word that derives from the same root to evolve to the same word with different meaning. A more likely explanation is that it was borrowed from Indian languages by breeders that carelessly used it to name a cattle. Such things were common in colonial times. I do not see the need to perpetuate that.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I am astounded that this thread has gone on this long.

It is apparent to any Fallout fan that brahmin were named after the brahma type cattle. Considering that Shady Sands was founded by the multi-ethnic peoples of Vault 15, it's likely that some of them influenced the naming of the mutated beasts. The fact that it shares the name with a type of priest is completely due to the fact that they both share the same etymology. It is not the priest that the cattle were named after, they and the priests both take their names from a shared etymological source.

Understanding the etymology of a word is key to solving the mystery of the thing that might offend you. In this case, there is no issue, the cattle and the priests are completely unrelated and the priests were in no way the inspiration from which the original creators of Fallout took the name.

Cheers.

I somehow doubt this will assuage the outrage. He's just going to continue until he's either banned or locked for trying to start a religious controversy where none exists. People who are "offended" by things like this tend to ignore facts and if you could reason with them they wouldn't exist in the first place. He already claims the Bethesda forums locked his posts or banned him.

 

[Laxite]

Let him be offended, it seems to be really important for him to be offended, it's probably the highlight of his day, getting to complain about his feelings being hurt online regardless of any rational or logic argument.

You are sounding like a broken record with no real argument to offer. If limiting revenue base of a video game sounds rational and logical to you, good luck. If offending religions sounds rational and logical to you because you are an atheist or because it is done as many times as you pointed by your good examples, good luck and I request you to develop some ethics based value system. My personal feelings are no longer hurt, I made peace with that yesterday after some words that made sense to me yesterday on game-spot board. I am here merely to argue the finer points. Some of them may be old arguments that happened in Fallout 3 times, but since Fallout 4 has the same thing, they need to be made again.

 

[Laxite]

I am astounded that this thread has gone on this long.

It is apparent to any Fallout fan that brahmin were named after the brahma type cattle. Considering that Shady Sands was founded by the multi-ethnic peoples of Vault 15, it's likely that some of them influenced the naming of the mutated beasts. The fact that it shares the name with a type of priest is completely due to the fact that they both share the same etymology. It is not the priest that the cattle were named after, they and the priests both take their names from a shared etymological source.

Understanding the etymology of a word is key to solving the mystery of the thing that might offend you. In this case, there is no issue, the cattle and the priests are completely unrelated and the priests were in no way the inspiration from which the original creators of Fallout took the name.

Cheers.

I somehow doubt this will assuage the outrage. He's just going to continue until he's either banned or locked for trying to start a religious controversy where none exists. People who are "offended" by things like this tend to ignore facts and if you could reason with them they wouldn't exist in the first place. He already claims the Bethesda forums locked his posts or banned him.

Do you have any logical argument about the etymological root of all the Br* words? The particular Br* words are Sanskrit loanwords that were applied recklessly during the Colonial times. I am not outraged, All my posts have used civil language and made logical arguments. You have the right not to agree with them or the logic but I have made efforts not to be inflammatory and been called 'PC' by many people here who would apparently prefer a more inflammatory version.

 

[Sander]

I somehow doubt this will assuage the outrage. He's just going to continue until he's either banned or locked for trying to start a religious controversy where none exists. People who are "offended" by things like this tend to ignore facts and if you could reason with them they wouldn't exist in the first place. He already claims the Bethesda forums locked his posts or banned him.

Don't backseat moderate, thanks. Laxite hasn't been aggressive, or insulting, or anything problematic. Feel free to disagree with him, as many are doing. The world will continue to spin.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I am astounded that this thread has gone on this long.

It is apparent to any Fallout fan that brahmin were named after the brahma type cattle. Considering that Shady Sands was founded by the multi-ethnic peoples of Vault 15, it's likely that some of them influenced the naming of the mutated beasts. The fact that it shares the name with a type of priest is completely due to the fact that they both share the same etymology. It is not the priest that the cattle were named after, they and the priests both take their names from a shared etymological source.

Understanding the etymology of a word is key to solving the mystery of the thing that might offend you. In this case, there is no issue, the cattle and the priests are completely unrelated and the priests were in no way the inspiration from which the original creators of Fallout took the name.

Cheers.

I somehow doubt this will assuage the outrage. He's just going to continue until he's either banned or locked for trying to start a religious controversy where none exists. People who are "offended" by things like this tend to ignore facts and if you could reason with them they wouldn't exist in the first place. He already claims the Bethesda forums locked his posts or banned him.

Do you have any logical argument about the etymological root of all the Br* words? The particular Br* words are Sanskrit loanwords that were applied recklessly during the Colonial times. I am not outraged, All my posts have used civil language and made logical arguments. You have the right not to agree with them or the logic but I have made efforts not to be inflammatory and been called 'PC' by many people here who would apparently prefer a more inflammatory version.

I apologize if I was rude or offended you in any way.

We have already explained there is a very real Brahman cow that currently exists and is currently, in real life, used for food. If you're really this upset you should go demand they change the name of those real cows because that is where the game appears to have gotten the name. No reasonable person would assume Brian Fargo made his video game with the intent of offending entire religions, and in turn no reasonable person would claim to speak on behalf of all 800 million Hindus as you seem to be doing. I am sure plenty of Hindus would be more offended that you are appearing so reactionary over what is clearly just a video game based on real life cattle.

Australia banned GTA 5 for being "sexually offensive." That doesn't mean we have to all ban it.

If you really want to be offended by something in Fallout 4, be offended by the fact that it is extremely bad compared to previous Fallout games.

Again, as Stephen Fry said: "You're offended. Great. So what?"

 

[Laxite]

I am astounded that this thread has gone on this long.

It is apparent to any Fallout fan that brahmin were named after the brahma type cattle. Considering that Shady Sands was founded by the multi-ethnic peoples of Vault 15, it's likely that some of them influenced the naming of the mutated beasts. The fact that it shares the name with a type of priest is completely due to the fact that they both share the same etymology. It is not the priest that the cattle were named after, they and the priests both take their names from a shared etymological source.

Understanding the etymology of a word is key to solving the mystery of the thing that might offend you. In this case, there is no issue, the cattle and the priests are completely unrelated and the priests were in no way the inspiration from which the original creators of Fallout took the name.

Cheers.

I somehow doubt this will assuage the outrage. He's just going to continue until he's either banned or locked for trying to start a religious controversy where none exists. People who are "offended" by things like this tend to ignore facts and if you could reason with them they wouldn't exist in the first place. He already claims the Bethesda forums locked his posts or banned him.

Do you have any logical argument about the etymological root of all the Br* words? The particular Br* words are Sanskrit loanwords that were applied recklessly during the Colonial times. I am not outraged, All my posts have used civil language and made logical arguments. You have the right not to agree with them or the logic but I have made efforts not to be inflammatory and been called 'PC' by many people here who would apparently prefer a more inflammatory version.

I apologize if I was rude or offended you in any way.

We have already explained there is a very real Brahman cow that currently exists and is currently, in real life, used for food. If you're really this upset you should go demand they change the name of those real cows because that is where the game appears to have gotten the name. No reasonable person would assume Brian Fargo made his video game with the intent of offending entire religions, and in turn no reasonable person would claim to speak on behalf of all 800 million Hindus as you seem to be doing. I am sure plenty of Hindus would be more offended that you are appearing so reactionary over what is clearly just a video game based on real life cattle.

Australia banned GTA 5 for being "sexually offensive." That doesn't mean we have to all ban it.

If you really want to be offended by something in Fallout 4, be offended by the fact that it is extremely bad compared to previous Fallout games.

Again, as Stephen Fry said: "You're offended. Great. So what?"

I know, good joke, right?
No probs, no offense taken and nothing personal, I know that debates on topics like this are going to get heated.
1> We will never agree on the Brahman cow argument I at least I am moving on from that.
2> I do not claim to speak on behalf of all the hindus. One Hindu turned atheist has already voted no. I am speaking on the basis of what my religion has taught me and then applying the reverse golden rule: Expect others to behave towards you as you have behaved towards them. If I do not diss any religion, I do not want my religion to be disssed. I am applying what I learned about free speech in Indian school in 3rd grade civics class that every right needs to be used responsibly, which makes sense to me. I can easily create yes votes to prove that I my opinion is not unique, but I am not interested in votes but a debate. I have not publicized this yet to anybody in the US, let alone India.
Anyway, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays, whatever you prefer.
and I enjoy Fosters

 

[BairdEC]

I know I said I was going to add some comments later, but I have nothing to add at this point. Laxite, just because something is offensive to one group doesn't mean everyone else is required to feel offended on their behalf. Different cultures, and their subgroups, value different things. One could argue that Hollwood's portrayal of Christians is as offensive as you believe naming cattle "Brahmin" is, even if you don't see it that way. The intent is more important than the act sometimes. If Bethesda had portrayed Hindus as wife-burning savages in the same vein as the colonial British believed Hindus to be, I'd say you had a valid gripe, but what they did was name a fictional, mutated cow after a real-life breed of cows simply because previous versions of Fallout had done so. The original writer who named the creature may have known that Brahmin was something besides a breed and a caste, but most Americans wouldn't.

 

[Laxite]

I wonder if groups of Sufis are offended by the inclusion of dervishes in many games as some sort of paladinesque melee class..

I would have loved to discuss this but I do not see this in Fallout 4 so I will pass.

 

[Laxite]

I know I said I was going to add some comments later, but I have nothing to add at this point. Laxite, just because something is offensive to one group doesn't mean everyone else is required to feel offended on their behalf. Different cultures, and their subgroups, value different things. One could argue that Hollwood's portrayal of Christians is as offensive as you believe naming cattle "Brahmin" is, even if you don't see it that way. The intent is more important than the act sometimes. If Bethesda had portrayed Hindus as wife-burning savages in the same vein as the colonial British believed Hindus to be, I'd say you had a valid gripe, but what they did was name a fictional, mutated cow after a real-life breed of cows simply because previous versions of Fallout had done so. The original writer who named the creature may have known that Brahmin was something besides a breed and a caste, but most Americans wouldn't.

I value your opinion and agree that there was no a malicious intent in the original naming. However they knew after Fallout 3 got banned in India and there is not even an official position statement on their site. There is no one to contact, gets directed to 'tech support' and their forums close any discussions on this topic in minutes.
Thanks!

 

[Irwin John Finster]

their forums close any discussions on this topic in minutes.

You should probably take this as a sign that what you are posting is against their forum rules.

 

[DzonyRambo]

That's quite amusing you think you deserve any special treatment because of your fairy tale you CHOOSE to follow. If you were smart enough, you would figure already Beth doesn't give two shits about your demands, but somehow you felt like crying here will make any difference. I mean it's not like anybody forces you to play or buy Fallout 4, riiiiiight? But, you know, theists usually think that world revolves around THEIR beliefs, THEIR faith, THEIR values, THEIR... well, everything. And if you don't comply you are intolerant idiot/militant atheist/babykiller/all above and beyond, because religion is well known to deal with it's critics with LOVE and COMPASSION and it's not like it's not like it's followers are EVER trying to enforce their beliefs on others, complaining about pointless shit, riiiiiight?

 

[Laxite]

their forums close any discussions on this topic in minutes.

You should probably take this as a sign that what you are posting is against their forum rules.

No I am just pointing to the fact that they do not care about their users or resolving issues or have the guts to even have position statement on this known issue. Exactly what the next post says with lot of anger thrown in to boot.

 

[Gizmojunk]

The brahmin in Fallout have been around since 1998

1997

I am sure no one will breed a Brahman cattle in this day and age, unless they specifically want to do that. If that is done, India will create a Pope brand of sheep in response and then the world will stop doing it.

Not likely. More likely it would go unnoticed, and later become an item for weird world news, and be promptly forgotten after. It might make a brief Twitter-storm if certain people really push the matter. But the pertinent difference here is that what you describe [the sheep naming] would be a childish act of retribution against what was not an act of insult. Brahman is a breed of cow, it would be an ancient word to them ~it would always have meant 'cow'; minor misspelling is to be expected. It is plausible; and there is nothing to be corrected.