Would you have supported renaming the Brahim if ..

Would support renaming Brahmin if he was named after priest of your faith?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • No

    Votes: 26 86.7%

  • Total voters
    30

Laxite

First time out of the vault
.. if he were to be named as the priest of your faith? Brahmin is a Hindu priest in real life. Now I am not trying to offend anybody or any religion, but would you have supported renaming him if he were to be called the priest of your religion? Please take a moment to really consider the question and to judge your reaction if that were to happen. Please see my post on game-spot fallout 4 forum about getting over it, no link in lore , old stuff and other points. I will gladly post it here if the moderator doesn't mind
 
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.. if he were to be named as the priest of your faith? Brahmin is a Hindu priest in real life. Now I am not trying to offend anybody or any religion, but would you have supported renaming him if he were to be called the priest of your religion? Please take a moment to really consider the question and to judge your reaction if that were to happen.<Please see my post on game-spot fallout 4 forum about getting over it, no link in lore , old stuff and other points. I will gladly post it here if the moderator doesn't mind


Well, personally I would be more insulted by other people's assumption that I must have a personal religion, than by anyone using a term that refers to an element or figure of a religion that someone else might follow.

If people choose to be prickly about which words from their fiction that others use in some other fiction, and which don't actually harm them directly in any fashion, then that's their fault.


Using a term for a priest differently to describe some other thing doesn't even come off as mildly annoying to me.
Something that would make me angry is someone being classified as a second class citizen that can be lied to, killed, or enslaved with impunity, and I can think of a couple religions that have a word specifically for that.
 
I did not intend this to be religious debate. It is very hard to have one within forum rules as I found out on Bethesda forums. 1> No Brahma is not a bull. The wiki link points to a non-existent page. Please search for Brahma on wiki. I could talk on depictions of various entities, but don't want to so that we do not get in deep religious debates here. 2> Atheist argument: Even atheist respect somebody or some concept. Substitute Brahmin with Einstein, Gandhi, Mandela whoever you respect and see if it is jarring. That is the point. If Brahim were to be named as something offensive to a large group, would you support renaming it?
 
I did not intend this to be religious debate. It is very hard to have one within forum rules as I found out on Bethesda forums. 1> No Brahma is not a bull. The wiki link points to a non-existent page. Please search for Brahma on wiki. I could talk on depictions of various entities, but don't want to so that we do not get in deep religious debates here. 2> Atheist argument: Even atheist respect somebody or some concept. Substitute Brahmin with Einstein, Gandhi, Mandela whoever you respect and see if it is jarring. That is the point. If Brahim were to be named as something offensive to a large group, would you support renaming it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman_(cattle)
 
I did not intend this to be religious debate. It is very hard to have one within forum rules as I found out on Bethesda forums. 1> No Brahma is not a bull. The wiki link points to a non-existent page. Please search for Brahma on wiki. I could talk on depictions of various entities, but don't want to so that we do not get in deep religious debates here. 2> Atheist argument: Even atheist respect somebody or some concept. Substitute Brahmin with Einstein, Gandhi, Mandela whoever you respect and see if it is jarring. That is the point. If Brahim were to be named as something offensive to a large group, would you support renaming it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman_(cattle)
I did not know that. Brahman, Brahma and Brahmin have been three distinct terms in use in Hinduism since Vedic times (5000 years). Brahman: The ultimate all pervasive reality (may be similar to the Holy Ghost). Brahma is the God of creation, Brahmin: Hindu priest. Since Brahman cattle was bred in early 1900, I have some theories about how the name might have come about, but no proof, so I will skip them. So may be that's how Fallout got the name, even so Brahman is not the same as Brahmin even in English and it is much better off renaming it so that it more universally acceptable. Thanks for pointing to the link.
 
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You mean like the various Bishops?

Birds of the genus Euplectes in the Weaver family, Ploceidae
Did you know that Brahmin also refers to the caste from which the Hindu priests are drawn?
 
You mean like the various Bishops?

Birds of the genus Euplectes in the Weaver family, Ploceidae
Did you know that Brahmin also refers to the caste from which the Hindu priests are drawn?
1> I do not mean like the Bishop birds. I mean like calling a two headed cow a Bishop and then killing it, eating its meat, using its hide and holding "Bishop" massacres and "Bishop" jokes etc.
I am sorry this is off-topic, but this is the response to your caste system reference.
2> Yes I do, I was born to that caste and only suffered from it. The cast system is outlawed in the Indian constitution since 1950. It is replaced by a quota system in which a large (> 50%) of government jobs, university admissions etc are reserved for non-Brahmin casts (thus defeating the "abolishment" of the caste system). Just like white farmers in Zimbabwe, our hereditary land was confiscated by the government. It has become so bad that many Brahmins are leaving India. The western media continues to view India from the cast system colored glasses but before the age of machines, every society has had some exploitary sources of labor such as race based slavery, war based slavery and so on. Cast system and the other exploitary practices were not justified then not justifiable now and I have never supported cast based decisions in one or other forms. The Indian society has moved on from untouchability etc. However whenever the people benefitting from these reservations see any foreigner they paint a picture of victimhood for their own benefit. Here is a link if you want numbers. You can read the comments, they are particularly candid:
http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/brahmins-one-of-the-poorest-and-maligned-castes-in-india/
 
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I don't see why it matters. The term is the old-world name used by them in the middle of their next millennium after a nuclear war; as well as being extremely close to the current day name for a breed of cattle. As far as I'm concerned fiction has a free hand in describing fictional realities, and the customs of those native to the locations described. They might only know it as a just a word from the old discs, and place no other meaning upon it.
 
I don't see why it matters. The term is the old-world name used by them in the middle of their next millennium after a nuclear war; as well as being extremely close to the current day name for a breed of cattle. As far as I'm concerned fiction has a free hand in describing fictional realities, and the customs of those native to the locations described. They might only know it as a just a word from the old discs, and place no other meaning upon it.
I have decided to forgive and forget on this topic. However just for argument's sake:

Fiction has a free hand in fictional reality: Provided it reaches only fictional audiences. For real audiences, media like games have a profound influence on people that translates to reality through terms existing in both the fictional and the real world; due to their immersive nature people practically live in the fictional world. For the 56 million Brahmins in the world it would matter. For many of 800 million Hindus in the world it would matter as well.
Breed of cattle: Bred in early 1900s in the Colonial times. Hindu use of three distinct words Brahman, Brahma, Brahmin: prevalent since the Vedic times (5000 years). See post 6.
Thanks.
 
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While I understand the need for religious tolerance, there is a fine line from outright discrimination to calling a mutant cow a Brahmin.
 
Fiction has a free hand in fictional reality: Provided it reaches only fictional audiences.
This would seem to be borderline 'thought police'; impinging upon an author's right to write, and ignores an audience's right to ignore it ~as if they were duty bound to care what the author imagines... along with a self righteous 'How dare they imagine that!'.
bolt.gif


I would say that regardless of what any consider as the truth, it seems very insecure [of them] to feel threated or affronted by a fictional setting where their truth may not be the truth; and tyrannical to demand that all fiction be otherwise and submissive to them. (That goes for anyone of any religion.)
 
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I understand your question better now. I don't think that it is something that you should take offense at, though. I doubt that the people who named the breed did so out of maliciousness. I would guess (no evidence, just speculation) that since the breed was developed from Indian cattle, they gave it the name of the highest caste to show that it was the best breed.

I will come back to this later; I have to go to work now.
 
A priest of my faith.... hmmmm.... well if a Brahmin was literary called absolutely nothing I would obviously prefer an actual name.



I am an atheist, I don't give two shits.
 
Same here in terms of atheism, so I can't really relate - but this does seem to me to be a symptom of the general PC 'get offended by everything' trend we see everywhere...

2> Atheist argument: Even atheist respect somebody or some concept. Substitute Brahmin with Einstein, Gandhi, Mandela whoever you respect and see if it is jarring. That is the point. If Brahim were to be named as something offensive to a large group, would you support renaming it?

Yep, I'd be cool with that.

If someone wants to have a breed of cows in a video game (or even in real life, for that matter) called for an example a Degrasse-Tyson, I think the pun (graze, de-grass, all that) would actually make me chuckle.

In fact, I wouldn't mind if you used my own last name for anything.

I hold nothing sacred.
 
There are a couple major problems with the PC argument in general.

If there is an assumption that the majority should all change something that might be "offensive to a large group" I'd expect you to qualify that large group by size, self selection and the amount of offense.

If people (regardless of number) choose to be offended by things that others do not find offensive, well nothing is going to fix that, and changing this name to that will probably just offend some other unreasonable people who choose to be offended by otherwise unoffensive things.

Large is also a fairly relative term. Large compared to 2? Large compared to the population of the entire Earth? Large compared to the population of sentient creatures in the known universe?

How much should I (one person) care about the feelings of say a specific 100,000 people when faced with the nearly infinite number of other possible creatures in the cosmos who don't give a crap about thing X or thing Y?

Does this offending term cause others go out and kill people because of how offended they are?
If so, I don't think the problem lies in the words and more in the people waiting on certain words in order to have an excuse to go be violent.
 
Did you know that the first Google search result for the word "Brahmin" is a company selling Brahmin leather handbags?

We live in a free society that has freedom of speech and expression. While some others might not, the creators of Fallout and most of its fans do.
 
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A two headed brahmin called Einstein, that could be funny. Maybe that's the name of the Brahmin that says "Moo I say!" when you click them too much in FO2.

If you start changing everything so no one gets offended you are gonna end up with a grey piece of paper as your only form of media.


I mean shit, if you are getting offended because something is called the same as another thing you would probably burst out crying if you were Colombian, we haven't had a drug cartel in decades but we are still seen as Drug Land on most pieces of media. You just learn to not really give a shit.
 
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