XCOM 2 vs. Fallout 4: How to not alienate your fan base

Irwin John Finster

Irwin John Finster

Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
It looks like XCOM 2 is indeed the sequel everyone wanted, instead of another XCOM: Bureau Declassified debacle. It represents improvements on the previous games without trying to turn XCOM into another kind of game altogether and selling a game that resembles XCOM in name and appearance alone, in order to sell to people who never liked XCOM to begin with (which would be the exact way to alienate your fan base). I have collected some Critic Reviews from Metacritic here to compare the two:

The XCOM 2 reviews compared to the Fallout 4 reviews (actual critic reviews, not user score) are a hilarious comparison. Here are excerpts from the XCOM 2 Critic Reviews:

"XCOM 2 is exactly what the fans of XCOM were expecting." - Why couldn't this be the case for Fallout 4?! :'-(

"XCOM 2 is a perfect example of how iteration should work for games: it takes a great original, fixes and streamlines the problems, and doubles-down in unexpected areas"

"XCOM 2 improves on its predecessor in almost every way, "

"XCOM 2 is a perfect sequel to Enemy Unknown."

Now compare to Fallout 4's Critic Reviews, including:

"Fallout 4 is an OK game if you treat it as an open-world first-person shooter."

"This isn’t the step forward I expected"

"Fallout 4 is a really decent game that (unfortunately) dismisses all the good and important things set up by its great predecessors."

In other words, it looks like XCOM fans will be very pleased with XCOM 2 (including me). Sad that Fallout 4 is exactly the game most fans did NOT expect and is essentially the XCOM: Bureau Declassified of the Fallout series.
 
Well I did get a free Steam key of Enemy Unknown or Within(can't remember which) but I didn't get to play it. I've been hearing lots of praise about Xcom 2. Meanwhile the apologists of Fallout 4 keep throwing silly excuses like:

- "If you treat it as a FPS then it's not so bad!"

- "Well you know Bethesda games aren't known for their good stories"

- "It's a Bethesda game and besides mods will fix it!"

- "You need to play pretend to compensate for some missing features"

Well the general summaries I get from all of their arguments for why the game is good. I think it's funny comparing the reviews of Xcom 2 to Fallout 4, such a shame though.
 
MercenarySnake said:
Well I did get a free Steam key of Enemy Unknown or Within(can't remember which) but I didn't get to play it. I've been hearing lots of praise about Xcom 2.
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Basically XCOM: Enemy Uknown/Within were very well received. The REALLY hardcore XCOM fans may have felt it was not to their level of complexity, but the game is certainly complex enough and I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of fans loved the revival of the XCOM franchise. Then publishers began pushing this first-person shooter called XCOM: Bureau Declassified which had nothing to do with being an XCOM game aside from the title and setting, and it was a pretty resounding flop. XCOM 2 seems to be pleasing XCOM: EU/Within fans with more of the same but also improved elements.

Unfortunately, Fallout 4 decided to make XCOM: Bureau Declassified. A game that is Fallout in title and setting only, that does not even resemble Fallout 3 in terms of depth and role playing.
 
Someone who was being thorough in assembling this collection would surely tell us who is being quoted in these reviews and provide links to the relevant articles. You have not done either, and therefore, even if it is true that XCOM has recieved a better critical consensus than Fallout 4, this is still being written with a bias perspective.
 
D Borous said:
Someone who was being thorough in assembling this collection would surely tell us who is being quoted in these reviews and provide links to the relevant articles. You have not done either, and therefore, even if it is true that XCOM has recieved a better critical consensus than Fallout 4, this is still being written with a bias perspective.
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I did tell you where its from. It's all from the first page of Metacritic Critic Reviews for both games. Not only that, it's usually the first sentence of the review.

The point of the juxtaposition of Critic reviews is that at least as of RIGHT NOW, XCOM 2 appears to be a faithful sequel that has generally met the expectations of the XCOM fanbase. This is in contrast to Fallout 4, which has bent over backwards to please an entirely new audience that doesn't even like RPGs and would rather be playing Borderlands.

TotalBiscuit gave XCOM 2 a good endorsement and liked it so much he actually finished it before doing his "WTF is..." video on it. He also disliked Fallout 4 for a lot of things, saying "I expected Fallout and got a glorified Far Cry."
 
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Irwin John Finster said:
I did tell you where its from. It's all from the first page of Metacritic Critic Reviews for both games. Not only that, it's usually the first sentence of the review.

The point of the juxtaposition of Critic reviews is that at least as of RIGHT NOW, XCOM 2 appears to be a faithful sequel that has generally met the expectations of the XCOM fanbase. This is in contrast to Fallout 4, which has bent over backwards to please an entirely new audience that doesn't even like RPGs and would rather be playing Borderlands.
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Fair enough, but it's not a complete side-by-side comparison. You've hightlighted the ones who gave XCOM near flawless scores, namely Guardian, Escapist, XGN, IGN Spain; and contrasted it against the mixed reviews for Fallout 4, namely PC World, Riot Pixels and GRYOnline?. Would you have given those last two sites the time of day if they gave Fallout 4 a good review.

Now what you should have done was contrast the scores given by those sites who were positive towards XCOM. You would have been okay with that, because the Guardian gave a more mixed review and the Escapist provided a quote that supports your arguement.

Now I ain't going to take issue with the consensus for either game, but what I will say is that someone who shares the opposite opinion could quite easily provide the top scores for Fallout and contrast them against the mixed scores for XCOM.

But they'd have a harder time doing that because XCOM doesn't have any mixed scores yet. But regardless, I'd rather you provided the Escapist and Guardian instead of whoever Riot Pixels and GRYOnline are supposed to be.
 
D Borous said:
Now I ain't going to take issue with the consensus for either game, but what I will say is that someone who shares the opposite opinion could quite easily provide the top scores for Fallout and contrast them against the mixed scores for XCOM.
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I understand what you're saying, but I think anyone will have quite a difficult time finding even the most paid-shill reviews claiming Fallout 4 is faithful to the Fallout franchise and has met the expectations of traditional Fallout fans. On Metacritic, I see only one that tries to make such a claim.

In any case the point is that one of these games appears to be a faithful sequel and the other one has gone in a very different direction that has alienated many people. I don't think XCOM 2 is going to alienate many XCOM: EU fans aside from performance issues that appear to exist at launch, however only time will tell for sure.
 
Irwin John Finster said:
I understand what you're saying, but I think anyone will have quite a difficult time finding even the most paid-shill reviews claiming Fallout 4 is faithful to the Fallout franchise and has met the expectations of traditional Fallout fans. On Metacritic, I see only one that tries to make such a claim.

In any case the point is that one of these games appears to be a faithful sequel and the other one has gone in a very different direction that has alienated many people. I don't think XCOM 2 is going to alienate many XCOM: EU fans aside from performance issues that appear to exist at launch, however only time will tell for sure.
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Yes, I can attest to sharing the statement that one does the franchise better, even if I don't believe that Beth's Fallouts are terrible games. The issue was that you did not present the arguement in a fair light, because if we were to take those four sites that gave the good scores to XCOM; Guardian, Escapist, XGM and IGN Spain and contrasted their reviews for Fallout 4, the arguement wouldn't work because only one of them gave Fallout a lower score than the others.

Finally, the whole paid scores thing I really don't like because it's far more complicated than most think it is. Whether a publisher can influence a review score is more than just "oh they paid them off", more factors like they reviewed the game in a constructed enviroment by the developer. And if you extend the paid-shill thing to a publisher you may not like such as Bethesda Softworks, you must extend it at least to those who publish the games you do like. XCOM is published by 2K Games, and considering that they also published Evolve, I'd say they're capable of craftier stuff than Bethesda is.

Okay, that's enough posting for now. But as Arnold once said... I'll be back.
 
Yeah, I haven't actually played F4 yet, so I can't really compare the two. I've read enough, though.
 
dopezilla said:
Yeah, I haven't actually played F4 yet, so I can't really compare the two. I've read enough, though.
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What the other guy said. Fallout 4 makes Fallout 3 look like...whatever you consider to be the deepest, best RPG of all time.

I differ from a lot of NMA in that I enjoyed Fallout 3 as a Fallout game despite the radical change in direction, and both Fallout 3 and New Vegas were good games in my opinion (New Vegas being the better of the two). This is because my first Fallout game was Fallout 3 so I wasn't spoiled by playing Fallout 1 and 2 first - as a result I had no reason to be disappointed. Of course, I also recognize Fallout 3 wasn't as deep as the previous games but at least it still had dialogue choices. Fallout 4, however, is essentially singleplayer Borderlands.

A note you find on a Super Mutant in Fallout 4 aptly describes 99% of the quests: "KILL...LOOT...RETURN"
 
Irwin John Finster said:
A note you find on a Super Mutant in Fallout 4 aptly describes 99% of the quests: "KILL...LOOT...RETURN"
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They are perfectly aware of everything that goes on around them. There are messages between the crew behind the Silver Shroud radio show, detailing how it's disrespectful to not be faithful to the original fans by not caring about consistency. It isn't even done as mockery, it supports the idea of sticking to faithful sequels.

It makes me really, really wonder - are Bethesda Game Studios just inexperienced, average developers who are being pushed EA-style to make games the way Bethesda Softworks want it to be, or are they a really arrogant crew with a bad attitude who really think what they're making is a gem and enjoy making them?

Plenty of times, the developer and the publisher do not see eye to eye. While BGS are closer to Softworks than any other dev would be to their publisher, I still suspect that there isn't a complete agreement between the two. If there is a complete agreement, then I would direct the blame straight at BGS, but until then, I'm skeptical as to who is at fault for Fallout 4's shoddy work.

I hate the idea of communities blaming and flaming the wrong entity. Too many times, developers get crap for what the publisher does. Case in point - XCOM 2's pre-order DLC.
 
Maybe the developers try too hard in putting in lot's of things, causing a flawed game? I don't know, the only area where we can put blame is in the writing department. The rest of the game may have been done in a panic, a poor mash up of ideas or something entirely.
 
Just going to point this out after playing XCOM 2 for some time:

XCOM 2 is more of an RPG than Fallout 4. It also improves on its predecessors while maintaining the same XCOM reboot that everyone loved in the first place. In other words, it's a proper sequel.

Nice so see a game be good and not in any way disappointing after what happened with Fallout 4.
 
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