Your opinion on the Brotherhood of Steel

[Scribe Kortum]

Some super mutants in New Vegas look the same as the Fallout 3 super mutants at Black Mountain and Jacobstown, the Nightkin there look like them as well but blue and smaller.

Maybe they cant do it with children. Maybe thats why little lamplight is around, because no one wants to fuck with the mutants human farm. Of course im just making things up to try and explain something that should have been better explained to begin with. I just dont think that the accusation that their motivation to leave the vault and kidnap people is ridiculous. That part makes sense to me.

Little Lamplight was there since before the Great War and just so happens to be next to the vault where they were testing out the FEV where capitol super mutants were being bred. Little Lamplight used to be a cave of exploration for tourists, you can see it via loading screen and road signs as an attraction.

Got this excerpt in the Behind the Scenes from Fallout Wikia:
The inspiration for Little Lamplight may have come from Vault 29, which was due to appear in Van Buren. They share similar qualities, such as sending the residents out to the wasteland once they mature and having no adults.

My assumption as to why the super mutants won't take the children is simple - too small and "useless". Not because they can't but simply won't, they want stronger humans to kidnap, they simply eat the weaker ones that either die or barely survive but are dying due to the skirmish that the super mutants have with them. Plus, Tabitha states (or it sounds like) on her radio broadcast that Centaurs eat humans. Either eat or hate.

 

[Oppen]

Oppen people dont survive very well on their own. Even mutants are smart enough to figure out that the more of them there are the better chance they have.

People don't survive on their own because there are dangers in the wasteland. Mutants, in the other hand, are immune to most of them.
What is not covered by the FEV itself is food, which is not covered in any sense in FO 3 anyway (and they do have a GECK), and enemies. Now, think: if the mutant don't attack you, it's really foolish to engage fight. You already know it's probably much stronger than you. Even if you can win, you lose bullets for no reason. So, enemies are unlikely if they don't engage battle first. If they don't die, and there was already a full vault of them, they are enough to survive for a long time. Remember vaults have around 1000 people, which is probably more than Jacobstown, which manages just fine.
Then, there's the aggresivity related to this FEV strain, but if this rage is irrational enough to engage fight despiting they don't need to, it's probably irrational enough for them to just want to kill and not think forward into turning them into mutants. Another thing is why do they stick together. Master's mutants had less conflict because there was a brainwashing, telepathy and a purpose involved, none of which are actually there for east coast supermutants, so even them forming a single society, without too much inner conflict is weird. Do you think a bunch of overly aggresive dudes are likely to form a society without any form of leadership or purpose involved? They'd probably in-fight much more than they turn other people into mutants.

EDIT: When I say they don't survive on their own because of the dangers, I know individuals wouldn't survive IRL either. But remember this mutants didn't start as a single mutant, but as a whole vault. And 'repopulate' as you stated before, is not survival. Do they need a minimal number for survival? Yeah, probably. But they did have this number, and actually far more than necessary.

My assumption as to why the super mutants won't take the children is simple - too small and "useless". Not because they can't but simply won't, they want stronger humans to kidnap, they simply eat the weaker ones that either die or barely survive but are dying due to the skirmish that the super mutants have with them. Plus, Tabitha states (or it sounds like) on her radio broadcast that Centaurs eat humans. Either eat or hate.

First, you should take what Tabitha says with a grain of salt. She's schizo, and dellusional. Second, she wants to scare humans. Third, centaurs seems to do whatever their masters tell them to do. Fourth, east coast supermutants (and centaurs) have nothing to do with west coast ones. They are not related at all.

About Little Lamplight being inspired in Vault 29, the thing is you can do some things with vaults that won't happen spontaneously. In the vault, for a start, they have mostly no problems, they have food, they have shelter, enemies have no way to go in, it's pretty much covered. The conditions are given artificially. And even in that case, one should ask where the kids come from (but since the vaults have tech advanced enough to genetically engineer and clone individuals, it's not that hard to answer this).

 

[Scribe Kortum]

My assumption as to why the super mutants won't take the children is simple - too small and "useless". Not because they can't but simply won't, they want stronger humans to kidnap, they simply eat the weaker ones that either die or barely survive but are dying due to the skirmish that the super mutants have with them. Plus, Tabitha states (or it sounds like) on her radio broadcast that Centaurs eat humans. Either eat or hate.

First, you should take what Tabitha says with a grain of salt. She's schizo, and dellusional. Second, she wants to scare humans. Third, centaurs seems to do whatever their masters tell them to do. Fourth, east coast supermutants (and centaurs) have nothing to do with west coast ones. They are not related at all.

About Little Lamplight being inspired in Vault 29, the thing is you can do some things with vaults that won't happen spontaneously. In the vault, for a start, they have mostly no problems, they have food, they have shelter, enemies have no way to go in, it's pretty much covered. The conditions are given artificially. And even in that case, one should ask where the kids come from (but since the vaults have tech advanced enough to genetically engineer and clone individuals, it's not that hard to answer this).

I'm saying how similar they are in looks, they were both worked on by the FEV so in terms of relevance, they are similar however they were made by different methods and people. The master had brainwashing and mass transformation, the Capitol super mutants were made by personnel within the vault with lots of failed and successful tests initially. Fawkes is proof of the successful outcome that you see much more of by the Master's work.
It wasn't touched up on how there are multiple generations if no adults are allowed within Little Lamplight after the last adult left to scavenge.

 

[Oppen]

My assumption as to why the super mutants won't take the children is simple - too small and "useless". Not because they can't but simply won't, they want stronger humans to kidnap, they simply eat the weaker ones that either die or barely survive but are dying due to the skirmish that the super mutants have with them. Plus, Tabitha states (or it sounds like) on her radio broadcast that Centaurs eat humans. Either eat or hate.

First, you should take what Tabitha says with a grain of salt. She's schizo, and dellusional. Second, she wants to scare humans. Third, centaurs seems to do whatever their masters tell them to do. Fourth, east coast supermutants (and centaurs) have nothing to do with west coast ones. They are not related at all.

About Little Lamplight being inspired in Vault 29, the thing is you can do some things with vaults that won't happen spontaneously. In the vault, for a start, they have mostly no problems, they have food, they have shelter, enemies have no way to go in, it's pretty much covered. The conditions are given artificially. And even in that case, one should ask where the kids come from (but since the vaults have tech advanced enough to genetically engineer and clone individuals, it's not that hard to answer this).

I'm saying how similar they are in looks, they were both worked on by the FEV so in terms of relevance, they are similar however they were made by different methods and people. The master had brainwashing and mass transformation, the Capitol super mutants were made by personnel within the vault with lots of failed and successful tests initially. Fawkes is proof of the successful outcome that you see much more of by the Master's work.
It wasn't touched up on how there are multiple generations if no adults are allowed within Little Lamplight after the last adult left to scavenge.

I didn't quote about the similar looks because I don't deny it. I'm talking about quoting Tabitha when the subject is east coast supermutants, who has no relevance in Capital Wasteland. Not only that, but the FEV strains are different, and it's clearly stated in-game.
Another thing is while Fawkes is an exception (and an accident), smart mutants are the rule for non-radiated subjects with the west coast strain. Even more, Fawkes wasn't smart at first, as you can see by the logs and IIRC talking to him.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

It wasn't touched up on how there are multiple generations if no adults are allowed within Little Lamplight after the last adult left to scavenge.[

-while that is true, I think its pretty obvious without "adult" supervision there would be many kids with kids. Hormones/puberty + no supervision apart from , fighting rules & work detail(mccreavy) = pregnancy.
I would think there would be many preggo adolescents in little lamplight, should have been a trade-able resource for their
scav-teams, underage poon or brown-eye is a commodity in this day and age, imagine a post-apoc future where children are probably scarcer, its fucked, but also a reality that should have been an in game issue, also they could have touched on much racier subjects such as underage molestation which def would be an issue in a society of pre-16s.

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

Dukanumberone

By your logic they should make a rape mod, hi do the raiders JUST torture everyone they meet? What about REALISM!!!!

Fallout 3 was barely allowed on the shelves anyway and was nearly outright banned in several countries.

Is your hatred for Fallout 3 so great you want make it too offensive for anyone to buy or sell?

 

[Tagaziel]

-while that is true, I think its pretty obvious without "adult" supervision there would be many kids with kids. Hormones/puberty + no supervision apart from , fighting rules & work detail(mccreavy) = pregnancy.

I would think there would be many preggo adolescents in little lamplight, should have been a trade-able resource for their
scav-teams, underage poon or brown-eye is a commodity in this day and age, imagine a post-apoc future where children are probably scarcer, its fucked, but also a reality that should have been an in game issue, also they could have touched on much racier subjects such as underage molestation which def would be an issue in a society of pre-16s.

No.

People raised in modern culture are oblivious to a few, obvious facts. The basic problem are medical services. Little Lamplight is set in a rather dirty, unsanitary environment, without any real medical services: no midwives, no doctors or even people with basic medical knowledge. And no, a 1st Aid Handbook and a package of band aids is not a proper toolkit for helping teenage girls through pregnancy.

Back on subject. The proposed solution of LL procreating and maintaining their population simply doesn't work. Early teenage pregnancies (and they're a given, seeing how LL has a silly policy of throwing people up at 16) are problematic: mothers suffer from an underdeveloped pelvis, leading to obstructed labor and very likely death (I doubt anyone in LL knows how to safely perform a Cesarean section), they are more likely to suffer from various ailments, and even assuming they are going to deliver the child, a pre-term delivery and low birth weight are much more likely.

I haven't even touched the subject of infant mortality rate. Since LL doesn't have access to any real medical services (refer to the box of bandaids note above), mothers do not enjoy any medical care. Without a hospital, a medical doctor, a midwife, or even a person with basic medical knowledge, they "enjoy" effectively stone age conditions and the infant mortality rate will be extremely high, likely taking any mothers with them.

I encourage googling for risks of early teenage pregnancies for more information.

Going further, the argument about a high wall and lots of ammunition is also rather baseless. LL doesn't have any kind of economy nor a trade route with the outside to provide fresh weapons or ammunition. Without a proper workshop or a bench for reloading ammunition and fixing broken firearms, they'd be defenseless within a year, assuming supermutants are kind enough to stay still long enough for children to aim full sized battle rifles and fire at them (assuming MacCready would have a normal weight for his age, which is doubtful, a fully loaded R91/G3A3 weighs around four and a half kilograms, one tenth of his weight, while being just ten inches short of an average 12 year old's height). This also ignores the problems of inevitable malnutrition and related ailments: fungus and pre-War packaged food aren't a healthy diet, particularly not for children and teenagers. And, again, no medical services to care for the wounded, diseased and malnourished.

In conclusion, LL simply does not work. It's an overt reference to Mad Max 3: Beyond Thunderdome, existing solely because of developer mandate and a big supply of plot device. The only scenario in which it could function, would be if the game was set within a decade of the Great War, when the original Early Dawn Elementary trip was still alive.

Fallout 3 was barely allowed on the shelves anyway and was nearly outright banned in several countries.

Bullshit. The game sold like hot cakes without anyone raising a problem, nor was the subject of controversy. The only issue was taken by Australia, and not because of gore, but because of naming morphine, well, morphine.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

Wish I had a cool name9

I am all for a RAPE MOD, why not? Its RP not RL.
Have you ever seen a movie or read a book that dealt with rape?
Did it turn you into a rape monster?


TAG

No.

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

People raised in modern culture are oblivious to a few, obvious facts. The basic problem are medical services. Little Lamplight is set in a rather dirty, unsanitary environment, without any real medical services: no midwives, no doctors or even people with basic medical knowledge. And no, a 1st Aid Handbook and a package of band aids is not a proper toolkit for helping teenage girls through pregnancy.

I get your point, but life has a way of being persistent and adapting,
how did we get this far. When human civilization was starting out they had a lot less than we have now, many will die, some will survive. Thats kind of a persistent FO trend.

Back on subject. The proposed solution of LL procreating and maintaining their population simply doesn't work. Early teenage pregnancies (and they're a given, seeing how LL has a silly policy of throwing people up at 16) are problematic: mothers suffer from an underdeveloped pelvis, leading to obstructed labor and very likely death (I doubt anyone in LL knows how to safely perform a Cesarean section), they are more likely to suffer from various ailments, and even assuming they are going to deliver the child, a pre-term delivery and low birth weight are much more likely.

Right, given.

I haven't even touched the subject of infant mortality rate. Since LL doesn't have access to any real medical services (refer to the box of bandaids note above), mothers do not enjoy any medical care. Without a hospital, a medical doctor, a midwife, or even a person with basic medical knowledge, they "enjoy" effectively stone age conditions and the infant mortality rate will be extremely high, likely taking any mothers with them.

Agreed, high mortality: BUT NOT 100%

In conclusion, LL simply does not work. It's an overt reference to Mad Max 3: Beyond Thunderdome, existing solely because of developer mandate and a big supply of plot device. The only scenario in which it could function, would be if the game was set within a decade of the Great War, when the original Early Dawn Elementary trip was still alive.

Eh , you could effectively write off every aspect in the entire series if subjected to the same amount of scientific basis that you are using to scrutinize LL. FO3 was obviously underdeveloped in grounding locales in reality, is that your point? Many locations in all of the games do not have 100% infallible scientific logic to back up their existence, so what, old argument.

 

[Wumbology]

Eh , you could effectively write off every aspect in the entire series if subjected to the same amount of scientific basis that you are using to scrutinize LL. FO3 was obviously underdeveloped in grounding locales in reality, is that your point? Many locations in all of the games do not have 100% infallible scientific logic to back up their existence, so what, old argument.

Settlement with slight implausibilities =/ Settlement full of cave-squatting kids who eat cave fungus... for 200 years.

 

[Tagaziel]

I get your point, but life has a way of being persistent and adapting,
how did we get this far. When human civilization was starting out they had a lot less than we have now, many will die, some will survive. Thats kind of a persistent FO trend.

I'm not sure why you're arguing a bunch of clueless kids in a cave are capable of surviving on their own without any kind of medical care, agriculture, or even means to sustain themselves.

Agreed, high mortality: BUT NOT 100%

So? Even if it's not 100%, the sheer risk will wipe them out in the first twenty years.

Eh , you could effectively write off every aspect in the entire series if subjected to the same amount of scientific basis that you are using to scrutinize LL. FO3 was obviously underdeveloped in grounding locales in reality, is that your point? Many locations in all of the games do not have 100% infallible scientific logic to back up their existence, so what, old argument.

No, I couldn't write them off, because the rest make a modicum of sense. Like having adults to defend them, some sources of commerce, some sources of basic amenities, some medical care... Even by Fallout 3's standards, Little Lamplight simply doesn't work.

 

[The Lost Hills Paladin]

The Brotherhoods purpose is to preserve technology from ignorants. Technology that would be used unwisely and would like be lost forever in their hands.Not to protect savages

However their second purpose is to use this tech to help rebuild humanity. One of Fallout 1's endings states that the Brotherhood reintroduced some of its advanced technology into the NCR. And becoming a major center of RND as well knowledge and learning.

Lyons strayed from the Path and that will be his downfall.

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

However their second purpose is to use this tech to help rebuild humanity. One of Fallout 1's endings states that the Brotherhood reintroduced some of its advanced technology into the NCR. And becoming a major center of RND as well knowledge and learning.

People forget about the second purpose on this forum.

Lyons strayed from the Path and that will be his downfall.

Killing Super Mutants who are threat to the continued existence humanity be denying them victims seems to be within the charter of the BOS

 

[Oppen]

However their second purpose is to use this tech to help rebuild humanity. One of Fallout 1's endings states that the Brotherhood reintroduced some of its advanced technology into the NCR. And becoming a major center of RND as well knowledge and learning.

One of the endings which IIRC wasn't the canon ending.

Lyons strayed from the Path and that will be his downfall.

Killing Super Mutants who are threat to the continued existence humanity be denying them victims seems to be within the charter of the BOS

Based on what? You remember it takes a lot of work to convince them to help you attack the base in Fallout 1? Do you remember you actually need to convince them the mutants are a risk for *them*?

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

One of the endings which IIRC wasn't the canon ending.

The other ending was that they wipe out shady sands and usher in a technological dark age.

 

[aac013]

In regard to you guys argueing the likeliness of Lamplight, from my own thread:

For example, the Children of Little Lamplight. Where do the kids come from? Obviously the teens and adults of Big Town would respectfully return children they have with wastelanders to Lamplight if they see themselves unfit to care for the kids. Alternatively Lamplight would have scouting parties and scavenging groups as well, so what if we had children stealing newborns in multiple settlements in a Kid's Next Door fashion? Imagine the detective quests you could get in Megaton when the children of the wastes go missing?

In regards to being on topic, it does make sense that at some point the Brotherhood would have a bleeding heart for a leader, ad personally I'm surprised they don't have more "civil wars." Not only East, but West and Midwest as well.

 

[Oppen]

One of the endings which IIRC wasn't the canon ending.

The other ending was that they wipe out shady sands and usher in a technological dark age.

True, I just revisited that on the wiki to make sure.

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

Of all the fallout forums people here seem to hate the Brotherhood the most. On Beth forums its usually a debate between the Brotherhood and the Enclave.

 

[woo1108]

nah,it's just because both BoS and Enclave doesn't worth to be respected. beth forums peoeple like both because their standard of Fallout is only 3.

 

[paladin_lord]

I think due all setbacks suffered by the bos in all its factions we can say with a good measure of certainty that their influence has been greatly reduced. They should be considered a "power" only within their local domains.

All divisions, perhaps with exception of Lyons BoS, in the current timeline (after vegas) are currently in hiding or licking their wounds while greater and more powerful factions are taking over the scenario.

I personally don't like the way the official timeline is going for the BoS. First because they are basing the BoS downfall in a very questionable conflict with NRC. Secondly because the only true legacy of the BoS that remains with a major participation is the Capitol BoS (don't get me wrong, they aren't bad as the bos in the bos game ... but the background and development of this chapter's story is kind naive and juvenile for the fallout setting).

With that said i just hope that Beth tries to redirect their vision of "BoS" to a more fallout oriented faction in the comming games. Perhaps turning the Outcasts or Midwest into something more significant.

cheers.

 

[Wish I had a cool name9]

hiding or licking their wounds while greater and more powerful factions are taking over the scenario.

Not that bad of an idea considering that some factions are ticking time bombs and the courier might just start a nuclear apocalypse or unleash the ghost people and holograms.

You also have the Midwestern brotherhood who have carved out there own territory to the extent that they no longer have any ties or any desire for ties to the old brotherhood.