Zegh's Dinosaur Thread

They sure did:
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They put real effort into them too... Having to carve those figures with primitive tools.

To be boringly fair, those are all human figurines, as in - Homo sapiens. Neanderthals belong to Homo neanderthalensis, a different species, which is what makes these discoveries significant. We allready have dated H. sapiens art way, way back, but we have had the habit of - untill recently - dismissing H. neanderthalensis affinity for art and expression.

Uniting H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis by art pushes the nature of art to even further back than imagined, since this form of expression would then, theoretically, also belong to direct ancestors of these two sister species (such as H. heidelbergensis and/or H. erectus, both of which, to my knowledge, are not known from any single signs of artistic expressions)
 
10 000 isnt even that much, it's the rough age of proto-indo european language, as well as the origin of many of todays existing cultures/tribes/civilizations
40 000 years ago neanderthals die out
75 000 years ago, humans make necklaces from beads
200 000 years ago, modern humans appear (Homo sapiens), it is also probably the same (roughly) age of sister-species H. neanderthalensis
2 800 000 years ago, ancient humans appear (genus Homo)

The other species of Homo exist in the span between 2,8 mill and 200 K, such as H. erectus, H. habilis, H. rudolfensis and H. heidelbergensis

There is bound to be a lot more species yet unknown, and we haven't even gotten to the proto-hominids, such as Australopithecines and Paranthropines
 
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Posting in this epic dino thread to tell Zegh I am putting him in my mod as a dinosaur but sprites are hard to come by for a FPS game. That one has no front facing frame so it is a no go.


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Will have to be a easter egg for sure. Maybe you will offer a nifty powerup. Anyway still looking.

Hmm might do you as Godzilla except not that big. Can use that flame sprite and the other one to loop.

:postviper:

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Yeah, seems I found enough seperate frames to make you look all flaming and stuff. Too bad you will just stand there. Haha.

Bonus points. Zegh Vs. Me

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Carry on men.

:salute:

And I am done.

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The other species of Homo exist in the span between 2,8 mill and 200 K, such as H. erectus, H. habilis, H. rudolfensis and H. heidelbergensis
If homos existed for that long, why did it take them so long to throw pride parades?
 
Some Dinosaurs had feathers. But does that only apply to therapods or also to other types of dinosaurs? >_>
 
Some Dinosaurs had feathers. But does that only apply to therapods or also to other types of dinosaurs? >_>

*puts nerd pants on*

You really want to talk about general integument, rather than feathers _per se_
But yes, first of all, we count birds as dinosaurs, and as such, 9000 current species of Maniraptoran dinosaurs have feathers, they can also fly (nerdness!!!)
I know I'm being pragmatic now, but bear with me :D

Stem-maniraptorans are the type of dinos you know from Jurassic Park etc, the Velociraptor as well as similar dinos, Oviraptor, Therizinosaurus. These *all* had feathers, as in - actual bird-feathers, including tail feathers, wing-feathers and some of them also had "leg-wings" (small Microraptorians were "4-winged" gliders)

Maniraptorans are coelurosaurian theropods, and we DO know that fur-like growth occur in stem-coelurosaurians (which include Tyrannosaur ancestors, but EXclude "carnosaurs" such as Allosaurus, or spectacular megalosaurids, such as Spinosaurus)

So, this means: Bird-feathers on Maniraptorans, and "fur" (or "proto-feathers") on primitive coelurosaurians, including Tyrannosaurids (Tyrannosaurus itself might have been secondarily scaled, like bird-feet are scaled, despite feathers on the rest of the body, but we know for a fact that early Tyrannosaurids, such as Yutyrannus were - not only fuzzy - but had a thick, fluffy covering, several centimetres thick, to protect from quite harsh winters)

NOW, this covers, as you suggested, the Theropods. Tracking fur/feathers any further back yields nothing. Abelisaurids are fairly primitive* theropods, and they are known from very definite scaly skin impressions, even similar to crocodiles

*primitive simply denotes something is further to the base of any selected evolutionary tree

THAT SAID

Early Ornithischians (Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Iguanodon - aka: all plant-eaters except the long-necked Sauropods) are known to have sported *thick, fluffy fur*

This is confusing to researchers. Sauropods show absolutely no sign of fur or feathers, and LATE Ornithischians, like Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Iguanodon, also show absolute scaly skin impressions in fossils.

Conclusion: In mid-to-late theropod lineage - and early-to-mid ornithischian lineage, fur appears. It MIGHT mean that the two examples share ancestry, meaning that fur occurs in common dinosaurian origin* (small "Ornithodirans" like Marasuchus and Lagerpeton) OR - they are examples of necesary and quite logical convergence, where - for environmental reasons - unrelated groups of animals end up growing similar kind of body covering.

*new research suggests a possibility of theropods+ornithischians sharing common ancestor separate from sauropods. This contradicts traditional model of theropods+sauropods, with ornithischians being separare. If the new model is correct, it explains some of the fur-issues.
(Some hardline proponents of this new model go as far as to exclude Sauropoda from the Dinosauria definition, but this has (thankfully) not been met with any acceptance)

The latter option (convergent evolution) is not too unheard of, after all - mammals grew their own version of fur, independent of dinosaur, and we sport it proudly - across our diversity, some more, some less, and humans are very good examples of how unpredictable these kinds of growths can be.
Think about it - lumps of fur here and there on our bodies, we are ugly as hell! :D
 
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I found these sprites a little too late. The Godzilla easter egg fits better than another mismatched enemy sprite, but I think you will end up being this Dinosaur on one of my mods.


PLAYE2E8.png
 
*puts nerd pants on*

You really want to talk about general integument, rather than feathers _per se_
But yes, first of all, we count birds as dinosaurs, and as such, 9000 current species of Maniraptoran dinosaurs have feathers, they can also fly (nerdness!!!)
I know I'm being pragmatic now, but bear with me :D

Stem-maniraptorans are the type of dinos you know from Jurassic Park etc, the Velociraptor as well as similar dinos, Oviraptor, Therizinosaurus. These *all* had feathers, as in - actual bird-feathers, including tail feathers, wing-feathers and some of them also had "leg-wings" (small Microraptorians were "4-winged" gliders)

Maniraptorans are coelurosaurian theropods, and we DO know that fur-like growth occur in stem-coelurosaurians (which include Tyrannosaur ancestors, but EXclude "carnosaurs" such as Allosaurus, or spectacular megalosaurids, such as Spinosaurus)

So, this means: Bird-feathers on Maniraptorans, and "fur" (or "proto-feathers") on primitive coelurosaurians, including Tyrannosaurids (Tyrannosaurus itself might have been secondarily scaled, like bird-feet are scaled, despite feathers on the rest of the body, but we know for a fact that early Tyrannosaurids, such as Yutyrannus were - not only fuzzy - but had a thick, fluffy covering, several centimetres thick, to protect from quite harsh winters)

NOW, this covers, as you suggested, the Theropods. Tracking fur/feathers any further back yields nothing. Abelisaurids are fairly primitive* theropods, and they are known from very definite scaly skin impressions, even similar to crocodiles

*primitive simply denotes something is further to the base of any selected evolutionary tree

THAT SAID

Early Ornithischians (Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Iguanodon - aka: all plant-eaters except the long-necked Sauropods) are known to have sported *thick, fluffy fur*

This is confusing to researchers. Sauropods show absolutely no sign of fur or feathers, and LATE Ornithischians, like Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Iguanodon, also show absolute scaly skin impressions in fossils.

Conclusion: In mid-to-late theropod lineage - and early-to-mid ornithischian lineage, fur appears. It MIGHT mean that the two examples share ancestry, meaning that fur occurs in common dinosaurian origin* (small "Ornithodirans" like Marasuchus and Lagerpeton) OR - they are examples of necesary and quite logical convergence, where - for environmental reasons - unrelated groups of animals end up growing similar kind of body covering.

*new research suggests a possibility of theropods+ornithischians sharing common ancestor separate from sauropods. This contradicts traditional model of theropods+sauropods, with ornithischians being separare. If the new model is correct, it explains some of the fur-issues.
(Some hardline proponents of this new model go as far as to exclude Sauropoda from the Dinosauria definition, but this has (thankfully) not been met with any acceptance)

The latter option (convergent evolution) is not too unheard of, after all - mammals grew their own version of fur, independent of dinosaur, and we sport it proudly - across our diversity, some more, some less, and humans are very good examples of how unpredictable these kinds of growths can be.
Think about it - lumps of fur here and there on our bodies, we are ugly as hell! :D

well about the "new dinosaur family tree" , didn't they find that the saurpodomorph and theropods can still be a thing as the fact that the 3 familys can be taken on there own ? ( sorry if its unclear i'm more versed in this subject in french ) . also the big ceratopsians have the possibility of quill like on the psittacosaure as suggested by unusual geometrics on a skin impression of a trike
 
well about the "new dinosaur family tree" , didn't they find that the saurpodomorph and theropods can still be a thing as the fact that the 3 familys can be taken on there own ? ( sorry if its unclear i'm more versed in this subject in french ) . also the big ceratopsians have the possibility of quill like on the psittacosaure as suggested by unusual geometrics on a skin impression of a trike

Not sure what you mean, but I think they (most of them anyway) just went "that's interesting!" and went back to using the classic saurischia(theropoda+sauropoda)+ornithischia model, rather than the proposed saurischia(sauropoda+herrerasaurus)+ornithoscelida(theropoda+ornithischia) model

These proposals are, as often in science, proposals. In paleontology evidence and proof is difficult to ascertain, so it mostly comes down to interpretation of material and following acceptance and consensus.

As for the quills - indeed, but here too, I'm not wholly sure what you mean :D The (spectacular) skin impression containing quills was on an undescribed new species of Psittacosaurus (it also showed melanosome preservation, showing that the animal was rusty-golden orange, with a dark brown/black back). This Psittacosaurus is currently under investigation, and still awaiting a species designation:
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Quills are seen along the top of the tail, and the robust fleshy impressions surround the whole skeleton. You can see the light vs dark skin under its thigh, and dark warty lumps around its shoulders

Triceratops, and related ceratopsids, like Chasmosaurus, do have preserved skin impressions, showing prominent rounded scales, with smaller scales between them:
Chasmosaurus%2Bskin%2Bimpression.jpg

Chasmosaurus skin - but nothing to suggest integument. This is only a portion of the body though, and Psittacosaurus seem to have been scaly - apart from the ridge on top of the tail, sporting the quill sail. The only thing known for sure would be that Triceratops and Chasmosaurus would carry the genes for such possibilities, but nothing is known to guess how active these genes were, from species to species.
 
i was talking about this skin impression
51623fe377b29.image.jpg
. some thinks that the little " holes " are

anchor for quills
 
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