Zombie Apocalypse- Intermission & Ideas for the future

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@SuAside:
Welsh made these characters, so he has the final say on any modifications to them. It would make sense for Bobby Sheen to have an M4 as a backup weapon as well. I'm not sure why he has two different pistol skills listed. Lewis and Mikhailin only have training with pistols, but it's possible for them to use SMGs such as the MP-5 as long as they stick to single shot mode. The damage would be the same in that case and the weapon would be more prone to jamming, but it would have greater range. Since they have only the base 15% skill in SMG, they should avoid burst fire, as Lynne's carelessness demonstrated.

When you've chosen a replacement character, let me know. You can reserve one now and change your mind later as long as you haven't received the secrets yet. On Friday we will probably send those out, so any selections made from that point forward will be final.

@Stompie:
Don't forget to roll 1d10 for Wallace's Track skill increase and 1d10 for Duke's Sanity increase.

@Welsh:
I plan to update the weapons/checked skills list for the start of Chapter 2 to include the new characters, but I'm not sure how much ammo each would have for their weapons. I'd say it should be a lot, since they are expected to be able to hold out for quite some time. Also, I don't have CoC stats for some of their weapons which aren't on the weapons list and have not yet been seen in the game.
 
Mr. Handy said:
Lewis and Mikhailin only have training with pistols, but it's possible for them to use SMGs such as the MP-5 as long as they stick to single shot mode.
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so, the USAF has no bootcamp, no gun training whatsoever? i find that rather hard to believe. ok, if they were both pilots, then they'd have only pistol training. but normal specialists? hell, i'm sure even flight technicians that work on planes have to go through boot.

i dont know about the US, but if you want to be a comms operative or an IT worker in the Belgian army, you'll need to pass through bootcamp just like every soldier, NCO or officer. (the exception to the rule being doctors that become officers in the medical corps of the military. they get lighter training.)

the only reasonable explanation would be that both are civilian contractors and by no means "airmen". if you want them to be airmen: arm them (or at least give them the skill).

Mr. Handy said:
The damage would be the same in that case and the weapon would be more prone to jamming, but it would have greater range. Since they have only the base 15% skill in SMG, they should avoid burst fire, as Lynne's carelessness demonstrated.
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how i fucking LOATHE jam rolls in CoC. sure, a noobcake bookworm adventurer wannabe with a mediocrely maintained gun can jam at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% of his shots. cheapass plinker guns will jam up to 10% irl.

but the army? professionals? their life depends on their gun, so not bloody likely...

can you see a supportgunner with a SAW having to unjam his gun once or twice when firing off a single medium length ammo belt (100 bullets)?
(i dont know the jam percentage of the SAW in CoC, but i'm betting it's higher than 1% in CoC)
you're hurting my belgian pride ;)

even the notoriously bad M60 didn't jam that much when firing at an appropriate rate... (guaranteed failure after 200 rounds of rapid fire for the original. think about that when you watch a rambo movie :P )

Mr. Handy said:
@Welsh:
I plan to update the weapons/checked skills list for the start of Chapter 2 to include the new characters, but I'm not sure how much ammo each would have for their weapons. I'd say it should be a lot, since they are expected to be able to hold out for quite some time. Also, I don't have CoC stats for some of their weapons which aren't on the weapons list and have not yet been seen in the game.
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for the ammo, remember that if you're lugging around a lot of different guns, you cant lug around a lot of ammo.

it'd also be wise to think about the firing rules for support machineguns. CoC afaik doesnt have any decent rules for that (as support guns dont simply 'burst', they give supporting suppressing fire and maintain area interdiction)

PS: shouldn't they also have a 7.62mm support gunner somewhere? probably a Mk.48 mod.0 or a FN MAG (which was the replacement of the M60).
 
Lewis and Mikhailin aren't pilots. It would make sense for them to at least have rifle training (and rifles), but I'll let Welsh make the call. Ramirez is only armed with a pistol, but he isn't Air Force. He does have rifle training, but he hasn't been issued a rifle according to his character sheet. Dr. Blanco and Zorie Spooner can only use pistols, but since they're medical researchers that fits.

The malfunction numbers for some weapons in CoC do seem out of whack, and they don't seem to depend on how well-maintained the weapon is (unless that's why some stats list three malfunction numbers). Most pistols, for instance, have 99 or 00, but the IMI Desert Eagle has a 94. Full auto weapons tend to have lower malfunction numbers, but since you only roll once per burst and not per bullet, at least it isn't checked that often. An MP-5 has a 97, but if you fire three ten-round bursts you only check it three times and it probably won't jam. Of course, firing thirty single shots will make a jam highly likely, which is counterintuitive. I'm not sure what the number is for a SAW, but it could very well be 00 - the MG-42 is. If you fire five 20-round bursts from a SAW, you only check five times for a 100-round belt and it's unlikely to jam, even if the malfunction number is 99.

Someone with lots of different guns (like McCain) wouldn't have as much ammo for each of them, but someone with just one would probably have a good deal. I'd say they'd have been given as much as they can reasonably carry. The helicopters have some 7.62mm machineguns (M-240s, and possibly a GAU-17 in the gunship), but they're not sticking around much longer. We'll have to think about how suppressing fire would work (perhaps it can be treated as firing unaimed shots), but it wouldn't be effective against zombies unless the rounds actually happened to hit them. Zombies have no sense of self-preservation. Against other humans it can be useful, but at a high cost of ammo.
 
Not a chance. The choppers aren't going to land again, and they need those machineguns for other missions anyway. It's up to Welsh whether the troopers brought any additional machineguns with them that weren't listed on their character sheets. The T-Bone rooftop isn't safe for anyone to stay on, as the place could collapse any time, and the Air Force isn't about to give the T-Bone people a machinegun. They can use the roof of the motel - I was thinking that the sniper team would head up there once the building is secured.
 
besides, those type of machineguns usually require special mounts to be fired. so no can do.

and the USAF should put an observation post on the highest building, sniperteam and small support team would be logical.
 
Some quick answers here since I made up the character sheets.


Handy- hope you feel better.

A quick look at Warren AFB and it seems the base is actually spread out over a lot of distance but is fairly weakly manned. Given the nature of the emergency, that many who operate on the base probably live off base in Cheyenne, and that the main security concern is protecting the missile bases, you can draw a few conclusions.

THe base personnel are usually just under 10,00 people.

For instance, you could conclude that this was a hurried mission, pulled of people who were available (as in Ramirez), heard about the mission and appealed to Co to come along (probably the med group), or got pulled from other duties for this operation- the SF troopers and the comm people.

One can guess that this mission was hastily drawn up, a desperate move under crisis conditions.

That said, the fact that they sent out 11 SF troopers and assorted other folks
More on the SF troopers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Security_Forces

There is also a forum for SF troopers, but I haven't signed up.

Yes, some SF troopers might be trained with M-60s and M-240s. But not our guys. Our guys have SAWs and M-203s which should be enough for this operation. THey did get a sniper team, so that's not too bad.

Remember, these guys are- in addition to protecting missile bases- basically work as cops too. Yes, some get Ranger training and seize airfields in hostile areas, but they also patrol base security and check traffic.

Do the comm specialists have specialized training? Perhaps they became familiar with the M-16 during basic training, but after that, probably not much and they've probably forgot much of what they learned. I can see giving them an extra 5% over basic skills if that makes you guys happy.

Ammunition? I checked a book on LRRPs during Vietnam and their basic supply. Too much ammo is a burden. I would say that individually they probably carry about 300 rounds each, plus have more ammo in crates. That said, I am open to your thoughts.

Caribe? As you are in the business- your thoughts?

It is uncertain if they will get resupply, but its assumed.

It's uncertain if the helicopters might come back to their rescue in the future.

As things get worse at Warren, the harder it will be to pull resources away from the protection of missiles.

Jams- I think weapons that are poorly maintained are more likely to jam than those that are well maintained, and will only jam 1 or 2% of the time. Some are more likely to jam than others. Keep your gun in good shape. Burst fire gets one shot at the jam. Yes, jamming is a pain in the ass. CoC doesn't plan on this much gun-play and a bad roll can really screw you.

I think our rule of firing machineguns- bursts of about 20 are good. THe more people you try to get into your cone of fire. Under the rules you lose a bullet for every person you add into your cone of fire, but I think that's a bit nutty. Your character should be limited to a cone of perhap 30-45% at best.

Black and Sheen- no extra weapons. The M-4 was brought along only because the big Barrett is a big and clumsy weapon to be used, and Black wanted a more convenient and easy weapon to keep handy. Sheen has the M-21, which isn't quite so difficult to utilize as the Barrett. Essentially, the M-4 is extra baggage that Black brought along only because he felt they might need it. Maybe he's not counting on McCain to protect his team with automatic weapon fire, or perhaps he's worried that, at the end of the day, he's going to have to fight his way back into Warren on his own. But as you've pointed out- more weapons is more ammo to carry.

ALso while McCaine has SMG skills, he doesn't have one with him.

Carlos Duran also isn't bringing an SMG with him.

Delta Green rules say that 7.72 Nato gets 2d6+4. CoC rules say M1 Garand gets 2d6+2 while the Lee Enfield gets 2d6+4. I would go with the DG rules on this one.
Barrett- DG Rules-

Lewis and Mikhalin don't have SMGs because there are no SMGs to spare. These are not combat people, not soldiers who are supposed to be forward observers or spotters, but actually people who spend their days fixing computers and radios, or doing basic operations at the base.

The SF guys are pretty good soliders- by CoC standards. But remember, these guys are Air Force people. The talent is heavy on combat for this mission, but the average Air Force person won't be trained to be in the field. I will fix their pistol skills.

Handy, I think its a good idea that you free up Foo, Mrs. Foo, and Bo.
 
welsh said:
Black and Sheen- no extra weapons. The M-4 was brought along only because the big Barrett is a big and clumsy weapon to be used, and Black wanted a more convenient and easy weapon to keep handy. Sheen has the M-21, which isn't quite so difficult to utilize as the Barrett. Essentially, the M-4 is extra baggage that Black brought along only because he felt they might need it. Maybe he's not counting on McCain to protect his team with automatic weapon fire, or perhaps he's worried that, at the end of the day, he's going to have to fight his way back into Warren on his own. But as you've pointed out- more weapons is more ammo to carry.
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actually, irl the spotter/observer would have a (scoped) M4, not a sniper rifle. (you've been watching Sniper 1 & 2 too much welsh)
you cant give practical coverfire with an M24.

if you give others 10 clips of 5.56mm and only pistols due to weight and size constraints, then how on earth can you have a sniper lug around a 1.5m rifle that weighs over 13Kg (empty) shooting ammo that's huge & weighs a ton and then have him carry around a spare carbine, while the spotter, whose job is not to snipe, but to observe and cover gets a M24 unsuited for his job?

welsh said:
Lewis and Mikhalin don't have SMGs because there are no SMGs to spare.
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first time ever for the US to say they dont have enough guns? :p
 
Steve-the-Zombie-Killer said:
But Welsh,
Are there not guns down in the shelter that those who do not have enough can go get once they find out about them?
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sure, but atm i dont think the civilians will exchange anything with the USAF and vice versa ;)
 
About the spotter It says
Bobby Sheen is the spotter for Sgt Black. Rather new to the team, Bobby normally spots for Sam Black. He sees this as an educational experience and has become Sam’s protégé.

It seems to me as black seems careful perhaps he wanted that extra fire power. Also he is teaching Bobby to become a sniper so if he had a sniper rifle it would be understand able.

For the guns in the shelter I doubt the military knows that its even there.
 
Never saw Sniper 2 Suaside.

Yeah, basically. Sheen and Black switch on and off, and while the Barrett might be a big zombie killer, it's not really that practical a weapon here. Big and heavy with difficult ammo to lug around that will slow them down.

This is a problem for the sniper team- they need to carry a lot of gear that will slow them down. While its possible that normally Black would have preferred a more practical weapon, Black may have been overruled on this, ordered to carry an anti-material weapon. As it is, this will limit the sniper teams ability to move about.

As for weapons, these guys work as a team. They may switch weapons as needed as well as which of the two acts as spotter. Chances are, since they will be out for a long time so Black may spot for Sheen.

That said, if it makes you happy we can switch the M-24 with the M-21, which is basically a variation of an M-14 and which is what I was probably thinking about in the first place. Or hell, we can even do an M-14 if you like - which allows automatic weapons fire. Let me know, I'm easy.

As for weapons in the T-Bone, chances are if the commanders of that operation knew that the T-Bone folks had a grenades, grenade launchers and automatic weapons, they might seize those weapons.

That said, it's unclear whether the USAF group would want to seize those weapons if the T-Bone folks are unwilling to give them up. The USAF team is fairly small and don't want to lose people if they can help it.
 
Yet, it would be fun if Alice as played by me could fight McCain as played by me. It would be a challange since I do not want to kill anymore of my characters if I can help it. Oh and if I see any crazy firing in my sector, McCain is going to shoot to kill. His family dog was killed by gang members as a child and he does not like to see dogs go down. :)
 
Thanks, Welsh. I'm doing a lot better today, and should be fully recovered soon. It's a good point that the mission was hastily assembled, and not everyone has the best equipment or training for the job. Lewis and Mikhailin did go through basic training, but since combat isn't their specialty they won't have high skills with weapons other than pistols. They haven't been practicing regularly with them, which is necessary to maintain their skills, especially if their training was a long time ago. Mr. Foo still has high combat skills because he does continue to practice, though today is the first time in a long time that he has seen real action. If they have any additional skills at higher than base level, it won't be by much, and that information will be included in their secrets. The official rules state that the base rifle skill is 25%, but we've been playing with it at 30% (though this hasn't actually come up in play yet).

Also, it's not that there aren't enough guns, it's that there aren't enough SMGs - at least not enough that could be gathered without delaying the mission. Lt. Malone still has her MP-5, though.

For Black and Sheen: Sniper and spotter teams usually switch off positions every 15 minutes or so, and each member is capable of fulfilling both roles. It's possible that each has his own personal sniper rifle that he prefers and is more familiar with (the Barrett for Black, and the M-24 for Sheen). They only have one M-4 between them, which perhaps they can share. Whoever is currently acting as the spotter might use the M-4 to provide covering fire. The Barrett is shown in the CoC weapon list as doing 2d10+4 damage, though Welsh has it as 2d10+1d8+6 (from the Delta Green rules). This seems rather high - it's almost a guaranteed kill when shooting a zombie in the head - but I may go ahead and adjust the character sheets later, as well as increasing the damage to 2d6+4 for the .308/7.62mm weapons. Weapons that are .223/5.56mm such as the M-4 and M-16 cause 2d8 damage as in the CoC basic rules (the 2d6 damage they cause in DG rules seems too weak).

As far as everyone knows, the Air Force doesn't know about the weapons or the secret facility under the T-Bone. The civilians and the military won't be trading weapons and ammo any time soon. A deal could be worked out in the game, but the mission commanders aren't going to be so eager to make one.

Yes, it's best that I free up my old characters for anyone who wants them. Now we have enough players that we may start running low, and it's better to provide more choices anyway. We're also getting one more player named Renee. She should be joining us Monday evening. She has Airman Alexandria Mikhalin reserved and will choose her other two characters later. I plan to make the intro post for Chapter 2 either Sunday or Monday, since that's when I'll have time, but I'll probably wait until next Friday or Saturday to update the plot again. This will give the new players more time to get started.

Okay, SuAside, you've got Ian Cole. Enjoy!

I think at this point we can make character choices final. I'll list all of the players and their characters here, with newly added characters in bold. Welsh, would you like to send out the secrets, or should I do it? I'll also update the character sheets to indicate who is playing which characters. Those who have not yet chosen all of their characters may of course finish doing so later.

Carib FMJ: (3 open slots)

Fearlessfred: Trooper Joe Barring, Javier Ramirez, Sergeant Sam Black

Lt. Col. Gonzalez: Willie, Michael Walters (and 1 open slot)

Renee: Airman Alexandria Mikhalin (and 2 open slots)

Steve: Alice, Jim Kerr, Airman Nathaniel Lewis, Sergeant Edward McCain

Stompie: Wallace Red Crow, Duke, Airman Justin Hockey, Airman Manuel Ortega

SuAside: Luke the Hunter, Bob Larkin, Corporal Ian Cole
 
welsh said:
You are stuck with the M-24.
More on Air Force snipers-
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforce/l/blafsnipers.htm?terms=us+marine+corp+boot+camp
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if you're sending countersnipers into the field they need shotguns on top of their M-24 ;-)

the article is about stationary base defense. sniperhunters use rifles and shotguns in the field :)

(but arguably they're not equiped for that :P )

Mr. Handy said:
The Barrett is shown in the CoC weapon list as doing 2d10+4 damage, though Welsh has it as 2d10+1d8+6 (from the Delta Green rules). This seems rather high - it's almost a guaranteed kill when shooting a zombie in the head - but I may go ahead and adjust the character sheets later, as well as increasing the damage to 2d6+4 for the .308/7.62mm weapons. Weapons that are .223/5.56mm such as the M-4 and M-16 cause 2d8 damage as in the CoC basic rules (the 2d6 damage they cause in DG rules seems too weak).
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euhm, a .50 cal barrett bullet knocks through APC armor Mr Handy. it knocks through solid concrete walls.
a hit on whatever part of the human body is almost a guaranteed kill (as it penetrates anything and leaves a nice 20cm wide exitwound to boot). a headshot as you say, is a guaranteed insta-gib.

as for 5.56mm, it's a very unreliable round (with poor penetration through armor/cover). one hit may make serious dmg due to tumbling of the bullet, yet another may cause virtually no damage at all.

the 7.62mm has far superior range and can knock through small trees, wooden barricades,... it will almost never deviate from it's target unlike the 5.56mm.
 
The Air Force might not be expecting enemy snipers, as zombies aren't known for using guns. They are aware of the proximity of the PMS compound thanks to the local reports they've gotten, and they are suspicious of the T-Bone survivors, but there wasn't time to go gathering up extra shotguns either. Black and Sheen have enough weapons already, but McCain does have a shotgun (though he and Black don't get along so well).

Yes, the Barrett is extremely deadly. I already updated the character sheet to increase its damage to 2d10+1d8+6. Of course, zombies aren't technically human, so a hit that isn't on the head probably won't kill one, though unlike most other weapons the Barrett actually might do it. I think by now the Air Force people know from experience to aim for the head, since they've been battling the zombies all morning, but they do not yet realize that zombies are actually dead. As far as they know, they're caused by some kind of unknown pathogen. Stephanie and Mr. Foo are about to tell them, but whether or not they believe it is another matter. The Barrett also has excellent range, which is extended even further because this one has both a scope and a laser sight, and even at half skill Black isn't bad. His effective range is well over a mile.

We've been playing the 5.56mm bullet as doing 2d8 all along. This means that, like you say, it may do only a little damage with a hit, perhaps none to an armored target, or it can do quite a lot (normal damage range is 2 to 16). The 7.62mm bullet does 2d6+4, which not only causes higher damage on average, it also is guaranteed to do quite a bit as long as it hits (normal damage range is 6 to 16).
 
Hey Mr Handy or Welsh,
I know this may cause trouble but I just watched A Night at the Musuem and I was wondering if it would be possible to replace Jim Keer's picture with one of Owen Wilson in cowboy gear from that movie. Or even better one of the cowboys from Brokeback Mountian. :)
 
Swapping out a picture shouldn't be a problem. If you have a particular picture in mind, just let us know the link. If not, Welsh or I can try to find one later.
 
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