Zombie Apocalyse- OCC- General Discussion

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You're welcome. Yes, I thought of sending both of them too. David's got a halfway decent chance at Fast Talk, but you'd need a plausible excuse as to why you're there without Horst and what you're doing. If that doesn't work, or if the skinheads are zombies already, then you could look at other options.

Also, the evil alien mosquito-things were last seen heading for the PMS compound, but only Michael survived to see this.

First, though, Flip needs to survive his encounter with Bud and his .38.
 
Well, If dialog goes further south, Flip has a decient Graple skill; Remember, Pressing a muzzle against someone is just asking for a world of hurt. Little secret; The time required to pull a trigger is actually a substantial ammount of time. Greater than the time required to; say - Stab someone; or disarm the shooter; given the knowlege.

Note- Flip dosent have his knife, and the gun he wishes to aquire, is in Horst's Blazer.

Flip has a few options

Tell Bud about the female (Leverage; Greater chances)

Lie (Bad outcome)

Grapple (50/50 chance)

Yell for help (Bad idea)

I did some reading about reservation cops. Reservation cops tend to be either extreamly liberal; or extreamly brutal. Since Indian reservations are consitered Soverign nations; Reservation police departments arent bound by american standard regulation. They arent bound by "Use of Force" Legality; or Human Rights laws. Here, on the West Coast, I find that police forces on reservations are widly inneffective, beyond solving small time civil disputes. Widly, the police forces dont do anything to haulter Weed, and Meth trafficing, and manufacturing on reserves; turning a blind eye. The US Martials tend to curtail this, though; as their juristiction includes affairs in bordering soverign nations. I.E US Martials can go, where other law enforcement offices can't. Kinda cool.

When the Reservation cops use their force; they use it right, though. Skinnerism, without retribution.
 
I think Flip should tell him what he knows, but it's your call. Keep in mind that Flip has 11 Dex and Bud has 12. Plus, in order to disarm Bud you need two successful Grapple rolls in a row according to the Spot Rules for combat: one to seize his arm and the second to make him drop the gun. If you miss either one, Bud almost certainly won't - the shot would be point blank. Plus a .38 fires twice per round. Bud has the advantage in combat, a fact of which he is clearly aware.
 
Mr. Handy said:
Also keep in mind that Wallace's truck is broken down at the moment. It'll need to be repaired before it can be moved, or the cab will have to be detached and David's cab swapped in (though this would mean abandoning the lumber). Once Stephanie finds out the effects of the EMP on the zombies (she's gathering data on it at the moment), she may have some thoughts on how to most effectively use it. Some of our characters are also aware of a bomb shelter. Additionally, the PMS compound is extremely defensible, but taking it would prove difficult.
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One might consider the question of priorities. You're sending a group to get the helicopter. Perhaps they will survive and return with either the helicopter and/or the truck.

Putting a plow in front of a truck would help get through mass crowds which your group may occassional engage. That said, this will take time.

SO will fixing Wallace's truck. Should you be able to do that, than the you won't have to choose. Also if the Brownson operation works, you don't need to fix Bob's helicopter.

Should you repair the helicopter or abandon it in lieu of fixing the trucks. Well, the nice thing about helicopters is you can fly over zombies. But finding aviation fuel for the helicopter might be more tricky than finding diesel fuel for the trucks.

There is also a need to inventory the other cars in the lot.

The PMS compound may not be hostile, but should it be, will have to consider how to take it against both types of foes. In either case you may lose a few people. Is it worth the effort? That would depend on the nature of the treasure trove you hope to seize.
For more on EMP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_bomb

As for weapons and ammo, some of our characters know of an available source of them, but getting to them may be a little tricky. I'd like to know the CoC stats for my characters' weapons. I know Bo's Beretta holds 15 9mm rounds (plus optionally one in the chamber), and from the spot rules on combat it would have a base range of 15 yards and a rate of fire of 3. Any other modifiers? He hasn't fired it yet, so he's got a full clip plus 3 reloads. As for his Mossberg, I remember it holding 5 shells in Resident Evil 3, but I don't know for certain if this is realistic or adjusted for gameplay. It's loaded with buckshot. He's fired it twice, so he would have about 23 shells left. What are its base range, rate of fire, and modifiers?
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I have been torn between the Delta Green supplement rules of the basic CoC rules. To be honest, the CoC rules are more generous-

9 mm or. .38 pistol generic- basic chance 20%, 1d10 damage, base range 15 yards, attacks per round 2, malfunction at roll of 00.

Bo's Berretta- M92 pistol, 9 mm, rate of fire 2, magazine cap = 15, base range 15, malfunction will say 00 damage 1d10.

note that a Glock 17 has a rate of fire of 3 and and range of 20. Can we say that the Berretta compares favorably with the Glock 17 and a similiar rate of fire? To be generous, I am tempted to say yes. Thus the rate of fire for 9 mm has been 3. However, normally the .22 pistol gets the 3 rate of fire.

Most 9 mm will have these or similar stats, variation on magazine cap.

Mossberg- We'll say its a Mariner- 12 gauge, rate of fire 1, magazine cap 9, pump action, damage depends on the type of shot. Buck would be 4d6+2, slugs would be 1d10+6

most shotguns would have a capacity of 5. SPAS -12 has a capacity of 8.

Mr. Foo is in luck in that since the motel is his home he'll have extra ammo for his weapons, which he collected early on in the story. Right now Stephanie is borrowing his P10 and has the spare ammo for it, but I'm not familiar with it. Its base range is presumably 15 yards, but what are its ammo capacity, rate of fire, and modifiers? I believe the MP-5 holds a 30 round magazine of 9mm ammo, and the base range was listed as 45 yards. I'd guess its rate of fire would be 3 in single shot mode, but what about bursts? Any modifiers? Mr. Foo would have 200-500 rounds of 10mm ammo available for the pistol and 400-1000 rounds of 9mm ammo for the SMG based on the earlier post.
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Let's see P10 is a modified USP compact, so the magazine is actually 13. Rate of fire 2, otherwise see Berretta. oh its'a 10 mm so the damage is1d10+1

MP-5= rate of fire 2 or 20, magazine capacity 15-30 (I assume the larger) base range according to Delta green is 20 yards but basic CoC has 45. Malfuction at 97
 
@Stompie-
Making a quick grab for Bud's gun might be very dangerous as he's got you at point blank, and Bud's a tough old marine.

DO you guys need other weapon stats?

.357 1d8+1d4, rate of fire 1, capacity 6, base range 20 yards malfunction at 00.
 
Thanks for the info. The PMS compound could be useful not only for the goodies that may be found within it but also as a potential safe haven, at least temporarily. It has an electric fence around the perimeter, which may be effective for keeping zombies at bay (at least until an EMP takes out the power), and it is an old Cold War facility and may have its own bomb shelter.

It makes sense that 9mm and .38 both have the same stats, since they're pretty much the same size. On the character thread the shotguns were listed as just 4d6 for buckshot, so it's nice to know about the extra +2. Of course it didn't matter anyway for Bo's shots, which would have done 4 more damage each - they were overkill as it was. I did notice that Mr. Foo's pistol was 1d10+1 as well. If anyone's got a .45 weapon, I remember from my very first CoC game that it does 1d10+2 but only has a rate of fire of 1. This may be for a revolver, though. A .45 automatic such as the M1911A1, which some personnel from Warren AFB could have, may have a higher rate of fire and has a magazine cap of 7.

I also advised Stompie against combat, and mentioned that Bud would get two shots at point blank range if he fails. This is not only bad for Flip, but possibly bad for everyone. A dead Flip means a zombie Flip, which could also mean a zombie Bud if Flip rises up while he's going through his pockets (which he'd be sure to do). Bud hasn't seen anyone come back from the dead yet and may think Flip's crazy. Then there would be two zombies inside the diner that nobody would know about until they attack. Their most likely first targets would be the people in the kitchen, including Dr. Hausmann.
 
Welsh- Can you post a basic lay-out of the PMS compound?

The option for violence, is limited to - If the dialog goes south. I.E. Things looking Grim. Remember, Guns are only dangerous when you're infront of the barrel (well - except for bludgeoning)

Are there dmg rolls for pistol whiping?
 
Yes, the .45 gets a rate of 1 and damage 1d10+2, range only 15.

Stompie-

Actually I can't offer it here, but I can offer it on pm. THere are a few characters who do have some idea what the layout of the PMS compound is, but its not general knowledge as most people try to avoid it.

Those who know of it- the Foos and a few of the locals, know that it lies on a big piece of land that is surrounded by a wire fence. A road comes up to the compound that is a couple miles from the public road. The compound is surrounded not only be an electric fence, but a rather dense grove of trees planted to mask the compound itself.

Yes, there is damage for pistol whipping, plus bonus based on persona damage bonuses. I am tempted to say the damage is 1-3 points.
 
By the way, thanks Handy for the above post with a review of the basic stats. Also the link on the wiki site for the Zombie Tactics was rather interesting. Nice use of Sun Tzu.

Ok, I have split the OCC thread so that this thread can be used for more general info and guidelines, the other for more discussion.

Why? SO I don't have to go weeding through countless pages to look for rules I should know.

Save the general discussions for the other thread. If I post guidelines, i will probably post them here, so I can find them, and on the other OCC thread so we can discuss. Cool?
 
welsh, you were kinda negative about using a truck without a plow. why?

it's not as if smacking humans around damages a heavy rig. if you're going to ram cars, that's another matter of course.

anyhow, in Europe trucks have the bad habbit of compacting normal cars and even other rigs in accidents. i doubt these trucks would be harmed much by running over some zombies. and american rigs are supposed to be even tougher than the european ones.
 
Actually the idea of attaching plow to truck is a good one. The problem, right now, is a matter of time.

As I see the group at the T-Bone has a few things to do-
(1) remove the current attackers
(2) prepare defense against the next wave.
(3) repair- helicopter or truck
(4) Plan an escape.

The plow seems to be part of your escape plan. It wouldn't work so well on open ground as your truck can sink (lots of little prairie dogs in Nebraska).

As you stay on the road, the rig should be fine. It might even be better if the rig wasn't hauling a trailer, but that would be a waste of power.
 
The plow isn't for smacking the undead, asmuch as pushing them out of the way. you CAN get highcentered on the undead; as it does pile up. A crowd plow isn't realy for running people over, its for pushing them out of the way. I.E to plow. Displace. The truck isn't realy a weapon, but a means of transportation. If you find you're self stairing down the crowds of the undead, you want to displace them, not slow you're self down, by running them down. And, asfar as damaging the truck, Eventually you would do some dammage to the truck.
 
@ welsh:
why no fuel airbombs before nukes? basically they BBQ or shock (vacum) everything to death in a very big radius. it wouldnt cause nuclear fallout though (and of course no EMP). i think it's more likely to have this explode over your own base than just dropping a nuke on your head (EMP or not).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_air_bomb

@ stompie:
imo the plow would be to clear roadblocks such as abandoned cars or light concrete roadsignal stuff...
when you hit humans (or zombies) they do not 'pile up' in front of you, Stompie. hence no need to displace them with a plow.

and no, a truck wouldn't slow down much when ramming humans (or zombies), it's a simple matter of weight & speed. if however corpses getting smacked under the truck would need to ride over them, with a 'speedbump' effect to that of course.

as for damaging a truck in using it as a defense, it might be worth it. what do you think is more important? having a damaged truck or getting besieged by 180 zombies (90 if lucky with charlie & luke shooting)? being besieged means the helicopter crew cant work, means the second helicopter cant land near, means there is no possible traffic between the hotel, diner and garage, means you're totally stuck until you break out.

sure, having all the trucks up would be nice, but we need to survive first. a siege takes time to break & who says Welsh doesn't conjure up a few more zombs to keep the others company while we do that?
 
SuAside said:
@ welsh:
why no fuel airbombs before nukes? basically they BBQ or shock (vacum) everything to death in a very big radius. it wouldnt cause nuclear fallout though (and of course no EMP). i think it's more likely to have this explode over your own base than just dropping a nuke on your head (EMP or not).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_air_bomb
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You're no damn fun, sometimes.

Boy that ruined my little surprise....

OK, so why not a fuel air bomb? My guess is that while there are some Big fuel air bombs, most are not sufficiently devestating (Fuel Air Bombs as shown in the film Outbreak was something of a distortion). As posted by Major Andrews- the use of nuclear weapons might be because the levels of infestation are so hight that they need a bomb with a big yield. Also the radiation affects might be an added bonus. Does anyone in authority appreciate the affect of EMP? Had EMP any affect on the grave crawlers?

If the hypothesis is true that the bombs are being detonated by base commanders to keep them falling out of enemy hands, than it is safe to assume that Fuel Air Explosives were probably used along with what other available assets were on site, to prevent the seizure of the base. However, once it seemed that the capture of the base by hostile forces was inevitable, the base commander decided to detonate his weapons rather than let them fall into enemy hands.

Note that even in this case, however, the detonations were probably limited. For example, Warren is unlikely to detonate every one of its nuclear weapons. Only enough to make sure the facility is non-operational. The Co may also destroy his missiles in the site and try to destroy his weapons without additive nuclear affects.

@ stompie:
imo the plow would be to clear roadblocks such as abandoned cars or light concrete roadsignal stuff...
when you hit humans (or zombies) they do not 'pile up' in front of you, Stompie. hence no need to displace them with a plow.

and no, a truck wouldn't slow down much when ramming humans (or zombies), it's a simple matter of weight & speed. if however corpses getting smacked under the truck would need to ride over them, with a 'speedbump' effect to that of course.

as for damaging a truck in using it as a defense, it might be worth it. what do you think is more important? having a damaged truck or getting besieged by 180 zombies (90 if lucky with charlie & luke shooting)? being besieged means the helicopter crew cant work, means the second helicopter cant land near, means there is no possible traffic between the hotel, diner and garage, means you're totally stuck until you break out.

sure, having all the trucks up would be nice, but we need to survive first. a siege takes time to break & who says Welsh doesn't conjure up a few more zombs to keep the others company while we do that?
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Oh I would be surprised if I didn't conjure up more zombies.
Alas, things may be looking up for you, as the aircraft flies by.

I had a big post in the works for you guys and then the PC went goofy and I lost it. I will try again tonight. Been busy in between.

As for the plow. Happily Earl used to rent out the plow for the nasty winters you get in Nebraska, so there is one on the premises. The problem is a matter of attaching it in a pinch. It can be done but it would take time. By the time the plow would be on, the zombies will be chowing down.

The main problem with the plow, as I see it, is that it doesn't run on open ground. Again the problem is burrowing prairie dogs. WHile you might be able to better smash through roadblocks and other obstructions, the truth is that you have few roads to utilize at the moment, and those that exist will go through towns (although I-80 goes right through Sidney). You also have (with Baldwin taking off), only one functioning truck at the moment- David's.

But yes, the fact that the plow is available would suggest that its there for an added reason- your use.
 
Ah, so that's what the C-130 is dropping. :D

David's truck could be used to ram zombies without the plow if there's not enough time to attach it, but that makes it riskier. Is the plow straight, or V-shaped? If it's the latter (which I think is what Stompie had in mind), then it could shove zombies off to the sides like a cow-catcher on the front of a locomotive.

Bud may provide a way to get into the compound later and have a look around, and possibly get the girl out too. His Fast Talk skill is 50, so he can bluff better, and he'd be sure to go along with this since he wants to go there anyway. I was thinking he and Flip could go up there, and they could explain that Bud is a survivalist interested in joining the PMS. Flip can say Horst is still busy meeting with Hammond, who kept them waiting quite a while first. In the meantime, Horst has vouched for Bud and sent Flip up to show Bud around the compound. They can get a guided tour of the place and Bud can even talk with other new recruits (such as the girl he's looking for) about the PMS.
 
@ Mr. Handy

Either a V-shaped, or like a snow-plow; Either would push them off to the side. I assumed it was like a crowd-plow (cow-catcher; V-shaped)

@ Suaside

You're familiar with the undercarriage of a semi-truck, right? Its not even so-much piling up (however- I don't think that zombie-meat in the grill is a good thing) Its just Gore in the under carriage of the truck can lead to trouble. Look at the group heading towards the garage. This is in nebraska. Think about it - There are always more. Sure, 10 or 20- or 50 won't kill you're truck, It will sure as hell jar it. Eventually, the brackets that hold you're drive-shaft will snap, and you're stuck up shit-river, with out a paddle, and- surrounded by the undead. or when you lose a tire. Yeah, you can loose a tire, when running over the undead. You're better off to use the plow. Displace, instead of destroy. Plow is a useful thing to have. Sure, you can't go across open ground, bechause of fucking prairie-dogs, but- if you take things slow when you can, you're fine. Semi-trucks are built with distance, endurance, and hual-load in mind, not running stuff over. heh - Better off in the semi than my Tempo though.

The plow souldnt take too long to slap on. You're biggest problem is getting a solid adhesion. welding may be two week, but you sould be able to slap some iron brackets onto the under-carriages frame, and the chasse, and bolt it down, and then spot-wealds. It would probably take longer to actually get the plow positioned, than to fix it to the frame.

Ahhh - Good ole' Fuel Air bombs. Just out of curiosity, wouldn't the remaining military be throwing everything they had, at the undead?
 
welsh said:
You're no damn fun, sometimes.

Boy that ruined my little surprise....
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Sue me!

oh well, you knew i was a gunnut, so no excuses...

Stompie said:
plow plow plow
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i dunno man, time is of the essence for me tbh. i can see us make it through the long term once the choppers and such are fixed, but our hands are tied if we let ourself be under siege. (unless the jolly green giants jumping out of mother green's C-130 are coming to the rescue)

Stompie said:
Ahhh - Good ole' Fuel Air bombs. Just out of curiosity, wouldn't the remaining military be throwing everything they had, at the undead?
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they probably are.

but out of 10 million belgians, there are 42.000 professional soldiers (civi personel not included). i dont know the numbers for the USA, but i'm guessing soldiers would have a very hard time defending themselves, let alone the civilians from this zombie apocalypse.
 
@ Handy- regarding Bud and Flip. You might want to consider this assumption carefully..

Flip could turn on Bud, get him killed and then come back with the PMS crowd and kill everyone and steal the rather abundant supplies at the T-Bone.

Flip and Bud could walk into a compound that has been over-run with the living dead and become zombie food.

The plow- is a v-shaped shovel type used for clearing snow off the highway. A bit rusting and dinged but otherwise operational.

Layout of the T-Bone- did I mention that there was a back exit from the kitchen and the office area?

I tend to agree with Stompie that you're better off plowing zombies out of the way then running them over. Everything you hit will slow you down, and eventually you could get stuck driving a truck. Tires blow and you're screwed.

The trick to surviving is to move faster than the zombies and don't get stuck.

Stompie- how long do you think it would take to put on a plow?

As for the military- they are trying to hold what they can, but remember, they are being hit everywhere and most of the police are already over-run. They are probably trying to hold out to limited areas and probably losing.

Also, remember what happens to dead GI's?
 
@Stompie - Yes, as SuAside and Welsh said the military is doing everything it can just to hold its ground and isn't in any position to provide much help for anyone else, let alone themselves. The only reason Major Andrews is assisting is that he's relying on the comm station for intelligence and he can't afford to have it cut off. That won't make Stephanie and Mr. Foo any less grateful, though.

@Welsh - I'm aware of the problems with the plan for Bud and Flip to enter the PMS. That's why Bo and Sean wanted to make sure Flip didn't go off to the compound. Of course, if Flip betrays Bud the PMS might still kill Flip for his failure once they find out Horst is dead. Also, except for Michael our characters are unaware of the evil mosquitos from hell (well, now that I've seen the latest IC post Stephanie and the others in the comm room know too), and from what Bo knows of the compound it is very defensible against humans and zombies alike coming from outside. That said, Bud is the one with the gun and the next move is up to him (I just saw that he locked Flip in the freezer - probably the best move. If he goes up to the compound without Flip and the skinheads aren't zombies yet he may be able to bluff his way in).

I'm glad the plow is V-shaped - it's much better suited for pushing zombies out of the way instead of running them over. Sticking to the roads should be less of a problem, and taking a semi off-road would be risky anyway even without a plow attached.
 
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