First Person Shooter or Isometric Turn Based?

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by Skelok, Feb 21, 2017.

First Person or Isometric?

Poll closed Feb 21, 2018.
  1. First Person

  2. Isometric

  3. Either

  1. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I would also add an Overdose mechanic to chems. Something more complex than just removing HP after the effect passes. And there would be hidden interactions between drugs when taken together, some serious and dangerous, some useful, some hilarious.
  2. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Troika's own tech demo shows a Fallout-like title, with Iso & FPP.


  3. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Jul 30, 2009

    Come to think of it... Could Tim&Leo's new Unreal game have something like this? I mean Unreal has plenty of first person titles and in Tim's recent speech he kind of hinted about FPP shooting mechanics (the recoil recovery part), but XCOM is also made in Unreal so the technicalities for that are covered and Tim also mentioned Fallout and Arcanum in passing.

    It's a pipedream of course, almost as much as a proper Fallout sequel (almost). But it would be refreshing to have something like that come out from outside the indies.
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  4. AbullSinCara

    AbullSinCara Modder&Mapper

    Jul 2, 2012
    Tired of FPS, they all look like MW, I'll choose iso.
  5. Ink Spot

    Ink Spot First time out of the vault

    Jun 29, 2011
    If a new Fallout game were to return back to its overhead turn-based RPG roots, it would really have to enhance and build upon what made Fallout 1 and 2 so good in the first place. Additionally, it would also need more interactivity, immersion, and focus in order to be really good. How it would be accomplished is the real challenge.

    Considering all the advancements which have been made in the field of game development, I just wonder what could be done to push those advancements further. The last recent overhead game I've played which excelled in quality was Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun, and that was merely an enhanced retread of tactical games like Commandos, Desperados, and Robin Hood: Legend of Sherwood. Shadow Tactics made those old games relevant again, and it succeeded on improving and expanding upon the mechanics of those game. Other modern continuations to classic overhead games I've seen were either marred by low budgets, unimpressive writing, or gameplay limitations. An overhead Fallout game would definitely need a higher budget and production values, but it also needs focus and well thought out design.

    As for the first person RPG shooters Bethesda have done... The only one I've played through has been Morrowind, though I managed to play little bits of Arena, Daggerfall, and Fallout 3. While I am a fan of and have an enormous respect for Morrowind, and I like what I played of Arena and Daggerfall, the amount of grind you need to progress in those games is rather long. I'm more of a fan of the FPRPGs in the line of Deus Ex or System Shock 2, with explorable areas rather than massive unfocused worlds.

    After playing through the original Fallout, I've noticed that the gameplay was far more focused, and the art and the design felt more satisfying. Consider Fallout's locations like Shady Sands, Junktown, or the Necropolis: they have the right mood and the right layout, and right amount of interactivity and quests. And the 3D sprites, textures, and talking head animations of Fallout 1+2 feel more to my taste than Fallout 3's graphics. I would long to see a 3D game which just used the 3D art style of Fallout 1+2, and just enhance them a little. Could you imagine character models in a Fallout FPS which had the same depths and expressions of the Vault Overseer from Fallout 1's intro? It would probably be pretty expensive nowadays to execute. Even though Fallout 1's and 2's cutscenes and talking head animations would be considered antiquated, I've barely seen 3D games nowadays which could replicate the detail and graphics of those animations.

    When it comes to my preferences for a Fallout first person RPG shooter, I'm more partial to a combination of old and new. I'd like to see an installment which combines what worked in Fallout 1+2 with other classic first person games such as Ultima Underworld, System Shock 2, Strife, and Thief. If it were possible, I'd just like to see the graphics, sprites, textures, and art of Fallout 1+2 rendered into a 2.5D engine. I'd long to see the Necropolis and its ghouls replicated in such an engine just to see if it could be done.

    The funny thing is that awhile back on You Tube, someone made a joke video which speculated what would happen if Interplay turned Fallout into an FPS before Bethesda did, and just showed gameplay footage of Redneck Rampage in black and white (because Interplay published that game). Considering that RR used 3D sprites and textures, maybe it could've replicated Fallout's style. That would've been a crazy thought. How would a post-apocalyptic RPG version of Redneck Rampage work out?

    The only other FPS I think could've been a good template for a first person Fallout would be the original Deus Ex. Just replace Deus Ex's skills and augmentations with Fallout's skills and perks, allow your character to earn skillpoints after winning battles against foes, follow Fallout's mission structure, and implement Fallout's day system. Other possibilities would be to make more interactive and advanced modifications for Fallout 3+4 and New Vegas which better represent what fans want.

    Other than my suggestions and ideas, I have no idea which approach would be best, or what would be the best way to execute such approaches. I only hope the really experienced fans will someday reach positions of power in the game industry, and be able to execute the Fallout games they deserve.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  6. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Once again, I was never in love with the mechanics or gameplay. I fell in love with games universe so I like both as long as they're well written and build upon the universe in interesting ways.
  7. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I'd say the mechanics and gameplay of Fallout 1&2 is what made them really fucking good in the first place, and it's what enhance the overall experience in regards to the writing and the universe. If not for the mechanics, you wouldn't be able to explore the universe like you can with the existing games. Multiple dialogue options, multiple stats/skills/perks affecting gameplay in more than one way, and (much more exclusive in Fallout 1&2) multiple interactions with various objects helps a lot in exploring the bleak, post-nuclear America in many ways that so many other games and other genre/format could never hope to achieve. Say, you have the next game so well-written and interesting addition to the universe, but the mechanics fucking sucks (for example, could only be explored in a linear fashion because of restrictive mechanic), then the experience would definitely become absolutely mediocre, especially when compared to the previous games.

    I know I'm just parroting stuff that has been repeated over and over, but the reason why New Vegas is great was because it returned a lot of mechanics back into the game, while simultaneously returned to the previous narrative structure and quest designs of the originals. Even then, NV felt much more inferior mechanic-wise compared to its predecessor. And because of the direction the series is going, there's just no hope for a full-fledged Fallout RPG anymore.

    But Fallout 1.5 being translated gave me hope, AND Fallout: Nevada even though it still needs polishing and refinement. The author of F:N announcing Fallout: Sonora strengthened my hope, and I put my faith in other projects (like Mutants Rising and fanmade Van Buren) getting their spirit rejuvenated by the announcement.
  8. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    I know @Black Angel but I'd argue that New Vegas took what made 1/2 great and dialed it up to 11 despite being more FPS oriented in combat.
  9. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    You know what differenciates 1-2 and NV in it's gameplay? No, not TB vs FPS holywar. 1-2 had a nice panel with skills to choose from and interact with the world through them. I bet if NV saved that panel, many fans would be happier. (this panel will make a comeback in The Way of Chosen, BTW. sneaky shillposting)
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. YeeCop

    YeeCop Just a Sweet Irradiated Transvestite

    Jan 26, 2017
    Contrary to what most of these Fallout old heads want, I want a FPS Fallout. If I wanted to play isometric turn based games, I'd play NEO Scavenger or Sid Meier's. :P
  11. Valdetiosi

    Valdetiosi Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 14, 2017
    Meh, I'm fine with either or. The execution must be good though. New Vegas has shown how to do FPS right.
  12. SomeDudeandHisDog

    SomeDudeandHisDog First time out of the vault

    Nov 18, 2017
    I dont care if it's turn based or real time; it's the role-playing elements that matters most.
  13. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Can you name any of those?
    (This isn't meant to be snide, it's a serious question... what game advances are those? Are their any?)

    What I have seen is hardware improvements; and games that bloat to fill the expanded boundary. The new games demand 10x the resources, but none provide a 10x better game. Even today Fallout mops the floor with other RPGs (and franken-shooters) by achieving all that it offers—expecting just sixteen megabytes of RAM, a 90MHz CPU; no hardware acceleration, and a 1 MB video card.

    If anything, I think games are devolving into beautifully decorated mush.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016 ?

    Initially, I hold this view. However, after having a discussion with @Kohno in another thread, I'm reconsidering my thoughts. I'm still satisfied with NV's FPS mechanics compared to that of 3's, but thinking about it I'd say there are really no excuse to not implementing better RPG mechanics that would definitely accommodate a better FPS experience. Except, well, Obsidian was really put on a leash and extremely tight deadline that they didn't have the time to explore the engine and do better.

    While my experience ain't relevant to what's stated to the quote above, allow me to tell you guys some of my current experience. As of now, my laptop is dying because its inner cooling fan is fucked (not to mention the girl has been with me for 5 years now). I can't play newer games because of that. Anything from 2010 (including New Vegas, but I guess that's also because I modded it) to the current year will play at 15 fps at best, maybe 10-5 at worst. However, Fallout 1&2, and something as newer as Arcanum, still plays flawlessly, at silky smooth 60 fps all the way through, no matter how badly the cooling fan sounds and no matter hot my laptop becomes. It tells something about modern games vs. 'outdated' games.
  15. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
  16. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Why are you whispering like this? Anyway, How long has that mod been in progress?
  17. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    gotta fly under the radar when off-topic

    I don't know, really. Some things are complete, others not even started, I know that's a standard response yet remains true. TWoC is in development for a really long time.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  18. Ink Spot

    Ink Spot First time out of the vault

    Jun 29, 2011
    Certainly, Gizmojunk. I'll try my best to explain what I meant.

    It's true, it doesn't feel like there have been much advances other than making games too massive to play or enjoy. And even the best games of recent years have retreading old ground, and only do a few things that are innovative. The improvements that have come, which admittedly hasn't been done in all modern games, is the capability to make games more immersive and interactive in its gameplay, storytelling, and world exploration. Additionally, modern game technology has the capability to adapt and expand upon the gameplay and design of classic games, if done right.

    The problem is that many gaming companies are either not interested in implementing those ideas for game design, or have skewed notions of what constitutes as improved design. The few game designers who do care about those sorts of things have to worry about financing and marketing, and aren't always successful it getting funding or executing their ideas well. Chris Crawford, a veteran of the old Atari days, has been trying to push for more dynamic interactive storytelling in adventure games and simulators for years, and despite some of his innovations, he's still struggling to reach audiences with his game projects.

    The few things I could think of enhancing Fallout 1+2's old gameplay is to make menus, inventory management, and interactive shortcuts more easy to manage, and maybe reduce the "roll of the dice" aspect of early RPGs when shooting close range. It would be interesting if an overhead Fallout game allowed you to explore the wasteland between towns, like Diablo II had you explore wide open areas on your own. Maybe the few innovative things one could do in a new overhead Fallout game to make it more freeform in character interactivity, and to borrow gameplay mechanics from other games. For instance, stealth aspects from Thief and Commandos when breaking into people's homes and stealing without alerting them, or to allow for stealth kills and moving bodies. It would be nice too to see enemy/NPC behaviors to be more dynamic, like in Dishonored. And why not give the player situations like in Half-Life, Deus Ex, and Unreal where NPCs are in trouble in real time, and you can choose to save them or let them get killed? Those are just a few ideas.
  19. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Agree. The classic Fallouts could definitely use some more polishing in terms of UI functionality.

    That's an interesting idea when it comes to close-range/point-blank shooting, but I think 'reducing dice-roll' in such situation isn't really the best way to do it. The game already increases your ranged weapon's accuracy the closer you are to the target (and in case of wielding a scoped hunting rifle, decreases it). I'd say, tweaking the formula might be viable to probably tilt the odds in the player character's favor, but outright reducing its influence is would break the experience (like players wasting their APs to get as close as they can, only to get frustrated because enemies hit them much more often because the rules are applied to them, too).

    Eh, considering the setting the games are taking their respective place, that's definitely gonna felt tedious and absolutely boring unless you REALLY enjoy just walking around and battling/killing enemies. Arcanum definitely allows you to do this, but the scale of the gameworld is absolutely YUGE that not opening the overworld map and just click to your destination is absolutely time-wasting. It would be nice to be have IF the setting of the gameworld is scaled properly, like Underrail.

    While it's nice to have more freeform character interactivity (of which Fallout 1&2 already has by allowing you to right-click on an object or NPC, then give you options to do something with it like Look at, Talk with, Use Items at, Use Skills at, etc etc), and of course take some inspiration from better implemented mechanics, I think just outright putting another game's mechanics without tweaking it or modifying it accommodate the main experience (in this case, RPGs) would just ruin the game. Features for the sake of features would just bloat the game to the point of having quantity over quality (just look at Fallout 4).

    As for real-time trouble/problems mechanics, well, Fallout 1 initially were choke-full of it and in much greater scale (the initial 150 days time limit to find the Water Chip, and then settlements have time limit before getting destroyed by Super Mutant invasion). Well.... that didn't work with the wider audience, doesn't it? They patched the entire thing and only left the 150 days time limit for the Water Chip. I'd like more time-related mechanics in my games and RPGs in particular.
  20. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Either, because unless it's so gameplay/systems focused that it's not an RPG anymore, it doesn't inherently get in the way of anything. I think everyone can agree that the change in perspective is pretty down in the list of reasons on why we're here.