Has the Mods community really failed in F4?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Cobra Commander, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Harangerish

    Harangerish First time out of the vault

    Aug 3, 2017
    The only mods I really installed for the game were mods that "fix" the game a bit. Disabled undiscovered icons on the compass. No voiced dialogue from the main character. Tweaks to the perks system, and other small stuff that improved the game.
     
  2. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Actually the team doing Cascadia is making a fix for the special/skill/perk system, and it will also be standalone. So yeah...
     
  3. Javier Solís

    Javier Solís First time out of the vault

    Jul 1, 2017
    I reckon when that's released the FO4 modding scene will improve quest wise. There might be a Project Nevada/FO3 wanderer's edition style overhaul which makes the game more playable using the system. Besides, the inbuilt limitations haven't stopped anyone from making quest mods.

    The weapon mods are quite nice, though, especially the ones that add weapons back from the previous games.
     
  4. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I'm going to be honest, I'm not expecting any of the mods made for Fallout 4 stand alone or otherwise to be of any general quality given the foundation they are forced to work with. I was tinkering around with a bunch of the Fallout 4 mods and noticed that they either break the game beyond repair just trying to get things to function properly or simply fail to work all together.

    Another reason why modding has bombed with this game is due to the immutable quality it has. Bethesda put a lot of work to making this game a modders nightmare, and it really shows with the quality of mods out there. I also fully expect these stand alone mods some of us have been talking bout to simply fizzle out over time as uncompleted projects. I say that simply because the game does not deserve the passion of the modders and I wouldn't blame them.

    Another reason why mods are such garbage for this game is not because of the modders, but mostly due to the fact that Bethesda castrated their fan base with Fallout 4, and removed most of the core features of a Fallout game because of console support. (A PC title such as Fallout has no place on a console, see BOS for an example.)

    I also know quite a few modders that won't go anywhere near this pariah of a game, citing the observed facts of Bethesda strait up stealing their work and claiming it as their own without crediting the modder.

    So lets start a outline shall we:
    • No real mod support (The Geck thingy? is not a viable tool, its absolutely horrible.)
    • Faulty engine
    • Missing Fallout mechanics
    • Limited degree of adaptability
    • Limiting vanilla dialog mechanics
    • Bethesda burned their modders (Burned them so hard, that the good ones won't go near it.)
    • The game diverged greatly from the IP standard
    • Game world is incredibly non optimized to the point that world editing presents more issues than can be fixed. (Seriously who the hell thought just stacking a crap ton of models together was a good idea?)
    • Any changes to basic game play mechanics can break the game to the point of halting the program
    • Game mechanics stacked on top of other bugged out mechanics or defaults that when changed cause severe issues to not only game play but save files as well
    Did I miss anything, I'm sure I did. This thing is a spaghetti mess of frayed wires and melted plastic. Honestly Bethesda needs to fire and hire new programmers, and world builders. Because when other developers look at this mess they are honestly amazed it actually runs. Or is this a case where they just hire anyone to develop their games and this is the result? Either way there is no love in this game, and it shows as obviously as an unpolished turd.

    Bear in mind I'm not discussing story, or characters. Only game play mechanics and world building, I'm sure if they put in effort to actually build a viable utility and optimize their games then they would likely have much better results if not a high quality of product over all.

    Also if anyone is curious about the model stacking I referenced, open up their derpy utility and just go anywhere in the world. Literally dirt mounds on dirt mounds on dirt mounds. So much wasted data for no good reason. Anyone who has done any real world building knows that is a HUGE no no.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  5. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Still Mildly Glowing

    Dec 6, 2016
    A pertinent remark. It's no use a modder wanting to come up with a solution to a problem that is root, if this will conflict with other mods.

    Urgh. Bethesda.
     
  6. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I know of a young man who asked me about modding for Fallout 4, while I don't mod for the game I know what to look for in the engine. If I remember correctly Bethesda wants people to learn how to use their utilities so that they can recruit them, however they are teaching some very bad practices. I told him not to tinker with it but to look into other utilities and engines to learn on. I strongly suggested that they learn how to use Valve's dev tools as they are clean and well thought out, which makes learning the basics fairly simple not to mention all the documentation they have.

    I felt crushed though, here is a person trying to learn and getting stuck in the politics of the game which detracts from the art of it. I would like to live in a world where anyone can choose any game to learn from, however I cannot say Bethesda is a wise choice.

    My cousin's boyfriend also works at a Bethesda studio as a graphic designer, and word around the scuttle butt from his says "those who haveleft Bethesda for better places to work have difficulty getting hired simply because of how poorly trained they are". But don't take that as gospel as "here-say" is never a supplement for factual information.

    But I think comments like that should be very telling to the working environment their devs have. Doesn't seem very progressive nor inspiring.
     
  7. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Looking at @Einhanderc7 posts, I'd say better place to start modding would be the good games, like New Vegas, and hell maybe even Morrowind if you want to go as far as that. Iirc, the author of Autumn Leaves, whose mod was plagiarized by Bethesda for a quest in Far Harbor, made that mod as part of his CV before entering gaming industry proper. Going by that, modding Fallout 1&2 or even FOnline should work, too.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  8. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    There is one mod that I recently heard about that does intrigue me, and I'm thinking about starting up Fallout 4 again just to try it out:
    http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21872/?
    Sim Settlements seems to turn the abysmal settlement system into something a lot more fun. Really, it looks like this is how it should have been in the vanilla game.
     
  9. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    Seems like it wants to set it back on the right track. If this is something that you would like to try out let us know how it goes.
     
  10. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I think I'll try it tonight. It does sound fun: Instead of building all the stuff for the settlers you place lots and the settlers will build their own houses, all a little differently, that they then live in. Same with industrial and commercial lots, where the settlers can be assigned a job and so on. Add in some tech tree stuff and more dynamics and it really sounds like what the settlement system should have been right from the start.
     
  11. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    It also sounds like a completely different game, where is the Fallout in all of that?
     
  12. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    It's just the settlement system, the rest of the game is still there. Basically, it lets your settlements develop on their own instead of having the player character cram a bunch of beds in an undecorated shed to bump up the bed-count. It just makes the settlements less of a chore and more rewarding than having to do everything on your own. And makes the settlers a lot less useless.
     
  13. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I completely understand, I'm just trying to find a way to marry the game mechanic to the overall game. I state this in the sense of making it more "Fallout" vs. a oddly hodge podge introduction. Not saying the mechanic does have it merits, it certainly does.

    The problem I keep encountering is the settlements still seem like they would be isolated from the rest of the game overall. I say that in the sense that building them up doesn't exactly impact the common wealth in a remarkable way as well the rest of the game tends to ignore the settlements for the most part with the exception of futile raids on them.

    Where are the plots and interesting characters?
     
  14. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    They aren't there, and the mod isn't trying to fix that. I don't think it can be fixed, actually, the whole thing is just busy-work to keep you motivated to do random, boring quests and exploration, anyway.
     
  15. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I know, I just want to enjoy it in line with the game. I suppose that is too much to ask, not a fault of the mod or its developer, but an issue developed in by Bethesda. Which brings us back to one of the main points of this thread.
    There is no passion to really want to mod for this game, at least for people who share my thoughts on it.
     
  16. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, the F4SE came to late and the game just has too many limitations. We'll see if Fallout: Arcadia can do anything about it.
    Also, there's this piece of awesomeness:
    http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23315/?
    Yeah, somebody apparently emulated a RISC-V processor using Papyrus and basically put a working computer inside Fallout 4. I like how mad some people are, and I hope this little project will get a bit more stable and useful in the future.
    Not that I'm actually looking forward to do any Assembler programming in and for Fallout 4, but I like seeing this kind of utter madness.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Still Mildly Glowing

    Dec 6, 2016

    hehe. Perfect opportunity for me to tell you my experience with F4.

    I have only one char, that I played for 115 hours. Pretty sure that half of the time is only bulding things. From the beginning, I was determined to exploit to the maximum the mechanics of the settlements.

    - This character had all the perks related to the settlements.

    - I unlocked all possible settlements and made a complex connection between them (same as this photo)
    http://www.nonfictiongaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Fallout-4-Settlement-Map-Supply-Lines.jpg

    - I recruit all the """"""""legendary vendors""""""""""" (plot twist: they sux)

    - I have appointed my companions as leaders of key settlements. Preston stayed at The Castle, Codsworth in Graygarden, Curie in Covenant etc.

    - specific clothes for specific jobs. Farmers dress like farmers. Same for doctors, guards, the guys that collect materials, the guys who operated the artillery, the caravan leaders as well (except the guy who made the route between Spectacle Island / Warwickhomestead. To that I gave a fisherman outfit haha).

    - 70% of my mods is relate to settlements. All the bulding make sense. For example, residencial area is close to the market. The operation center is close to my powerhouse.

    And so go on. There is a lot more, but you can understand.

    After all this work, I realized:

    1) You have zero advantage in doing this.
    2) The material you spend could be used on better things like mods for weapons.
    3) The system is incredibly frustrating.
    4) None of these places has a slide ending.
    5) And the icing on the cake: everywhere where it has heavy construction, I have a massive drop in fps.

    If I played this game again, I will not touch this settlement system. This have no place in a Fallout game, really.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  18. Alphons

    Alphons First time out of the vault

    Aug 9, 2017
    @Hassknecht Played a bit with a mod and it maked settlements less a chore- dump junk, set plots and go.
    From what I recall author plans to add more custom objects and a large pool of unique settlers each with their own backstory (someone is a tinkerer, so he has little workshop in house where he dismantles clocks, etc.)
    Basically, if you want to play FO4 and use settlements- really helpful.
     
  19. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, it seems to make stuff a lot more fun. When making normal settlements I usually end up getting bored and just clusterfuck a few mattresses somewhere, making every settlement look like a hobo hideout. This way settlements feel a lot more natural.
     
  20. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    Has anyone added DT yet?