Isometric TBRPG or New Vegas-styled FPSRPG?

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by Ben Soto, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    divinity OS 2 from what i've seen in their kickstarter page
     
  2. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...I Remember...

    Sep 11, 2010
    It hasn't been released yet though.
    I mean, a first person game having more mods than an isometric game is an unfair comparison when the first person game has modding tools and a isometric game doesn't. Until Divinity OS 2 has been released and had like a year or two of modding we can't really make a comparison as to what game would be easier to make mods for. It also depends on the ratio of audience and accessebility(?) of the tools.
     
  3. Kohno

    Kohno Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jul 30, 2009
    Turnbased RPG.

    Doesn't really matter all that much to me if it is ISO or FPP. It could be purebreed ISO or top-down or opted for something similiar to Wizardry 8 or M&M 6 or perhaps even something close to Albion. Doesn't really matter as long as long as it's turnbased and the gameplay and combat are rich, varied and systems heavy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
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  4. Elaxter

    Elaxter This game costs $110.

    Nov 26, 2015
    I think first person works better because you can really get into the players face and it can compliment gritty, harsh combat. Too bad enemies turn into bullet sponges too much, because fast, end-in-one-shot combat could work well with Fallout
     
  5. BairdEC

    BairdEC It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 21, 2015
    I know I'm late to the conversation, but I'd prefer an isometric game with turn-based combat. If the next one must be a FPS, then I wish they would start using Cryengine.



     
  6. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

    Mar 23, 2015
    FPSRPG. We already have some examples of FPS+RPGs where FPS & RPG co-exists quite nice. And Fallout's TBRPG implementation is not well to begin with, tbh. New Vegas did better it's part of the job. Not perfect but good enough.
     
  7. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I beg to differ. With the emergence of more top down-isometric-turn based cRPGs, a new isometric Fallout is just something I personally desire nowadays, and really should work better if it were to be made in these modern time. I'm not saying TBRPG > FPSRPG, but there are many good isometric engine that's a nice contender for Fallout game, like Underrail's engine. Besides, there's still many problems from Fallout 3 that get carried to New Vegas, like shooting mechanics NOT 100% rely on character's skills , but rather player's skills (which is a problem that arises from making the game an action FPS game to begin with), and also how hacking and lockpicking also suffers from this same exact problem (note that I'm not saying they suffered from stupid ass threshold like Very Easy/Easy etc etc, but the mechanic that involve player to work on them, instead of the character doing it all by themselves based on their own skills).
     
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  8. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

    Mar 23, 2015
    I beg to differ. There are tons of ways to still get player do the minigames and rely on character's skills at the same time, even F4 and Skyrim shows some. Same with shooting. I really liked how shooting mechanics was implemented in SS2, Deus Ex and VTM:Bloodlines. And your hatred minigames.
     
  9. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Ehem, how exactly did Fallout 4 and Skyrim showed minigames allowing character's skills to come into play, aside from blocking our character from ever accessing the lock if we don't have sufficient 'skill' or perk level? I haven't played Fallout 4, but from what I've seen the lockpicking and hacking minigames are the exact same, and Skyrim? Seriously?

    I haven't tried SS2, Deus Ex, and Vampire, but from the engine Bethesda used, we won't truly be able to experience full-fledged Fallout RPGs that 100% rely on character's skills, except if you know a particular FP/TPP engine that can work to make Fallout an RPG in non-isometric format?
     
  10. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

    Mar 23, 2015
    The parameter defining, ahem, "sweet spot" of the lock (c) Tumblers Today perk magazine. And I said 'some'.
    And what's wrong with hacking? I mean, it's 100% random anyway.
    It may be tied directly to your lockpick skill. To make things less easy, make lockpick broke really easy or tie to your agility for example.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  11. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Eh, I don't know about Fallout 4, but in Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim, looking for the 'sweet spot' STILL rely on player's skills. If it's done it such way, that, higher skills make the lockpick position closer to the 'sweet spot' immediately when we prompt lockpicking (this was done by a perk iirc), then okay I agree with that. But still..... I think minigames kind of limit the role-playing aspect, no matter how hard you tried to design it so that it can mostly rely on character's skills. I mean, do you have any other example of lockpicking/hacking minigames in some other FPSRPG that limit the player's involvement while still having minigames?
    As for hacking, no matter how random it is, it's STILL rely on player's skill, heck it boils down to a game of guessing, instead of 100% character's skills. If you want some example of a hacking done right in an FPS format, I've seen the gameplay video for Consortium: The Tower where we just hold a button for our character to do all the hacking, so it has no minigames, but fit just right for an RPG.
     
  12. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

    Mar 23, 2015
    Deus Ex. :razz:
    The more skill you have, the less lockpicks spent.
    Eh, not exactly. In F4 IIRC the more intelligent you are, the less words you have to choose from.
    Return to Deus Ex, it's hacking is 100% skill based, which defines the time you can spend on the terminal and visualized as progress bar. In DE:HR your hacking skill directly defines what kind of security system you can turn off or reconfigure but DE:HR is not RPG so it's the last time I mention it.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  13. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Ah.... I need to try a Deus Ex game, then. With an upcoming new Deus Ex, if it turns out to be a good RPG, do you think their engine can fit a Fallout game?
     
  14. 0wing

    0wing Mods will fix you up

    Mar 23, 2015
    New? Not at all. Fallout is more wide open but Deus Ex takes place in the city areas and military bases. Old? It's Unreal Engine, grab the 4th version and do it.
    Not to be rude but you are incorrect. It's still possible to make an autentic experience with Bethesda's bullshit fork of Gamebryo, even the world map:
     
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  15. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Huh, cool. Still, I'd rather not have Gamebryo or Creation Engine to do the job. It's just, you know, has been discussed over and over again. Basically, due to the nature of the engine, there will always be someone saying, "Mods will fix it!". I'd rather see some other engine and implement that world map feature, instead of beating the dead horse here.
     
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  16. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    The random hacking and the lockpicking by player skill is bullshit in my opinion, should be based off character skill. I prefer Fallout and Fallout 2's style of lockpicking like how they don't hold your hand by keeping you from picking a lock higher than your skill level. I like how you can jam the lock if you don't reach the requirements for a lock.

    NV and Fallout 4's hacking was tedious as was the lockpicking, I want my character's skill to be the deciding factor in whether or not my character can hack or pick a lock.

    As for Deus Ex's system for hacking and lockpicking, it was still flawed and it took GMDX to put restrictions on some things since vanilla hacking was still easy. It was a decent system but not ideal.
     
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  17. IndignantHedgehog

    IndignantHedgehog It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jan 7, 2016
    I personally think a mix is best, but the mini-games should be different. Something like Oblivian's lockpick mini-game might be nice, it's much harder to brute-force, and you can also just auto-pick with your char's skill level, breaking picks if you fail.

    Making it so the "sweet spot" resets after each broken pick, combined with skill-based spot size and an optional auto-pick based on skill/force lock thing could work.
     
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  18. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    If we went TBRPG, it'd have to be 2D/pre-rendered. If not, FPS RPG. 3D CRPGs don't look great in general.
     
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  19. Immortalkickass

    Immortalkickass First time out of the vault

    Dec 4, 2015
    Gods no, not isometric please. I absolutely hate luck-based gameplay.

    65% chance to hit? Not bad eh?

    Miss-Miss-Miss-Miss-HIT-Miss-Miss-Miss-Miss

    Fuck off.
     
  20. R.Graves

    R.Graves Functionally Defective

    Apr 21, 2016
    I get what ya mean m8. But... That system works best for rpgs... Then again it doesn't matter to me as long as the writing is to notch and there's some c&c.