Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Throatpunch, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    They certainly are better at fighting, your right, but that's irrelevant if the management is incompetent.
    His sackings were stupid, and it caused him huge problems, he was an idiot.
    He ordered tanks not to attack 400,000 British army troops for no apparent reason, which would have won him the European war, and we got away.
     
  2. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Well, with Lanius and Vulpes they now have fairly competent leaders.
    (Sorry if I'm turning this into a WW2 thread) Dunkirk happened because the Panzers were seriously fucked up after crossing the Maginot line, while they probably could have managed the trek to Dunkirk if they did they'd be even worse off, so they held off the attack; they didn't see the miracle of Dunkirk coming, nobody did, that's why it's called a miracle.
     
  3. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Yes, but only good as short term leaders, not long term ones.
    Yeah, if you wanna discuss this more we'll make a WW2 thread.
    The Allies were eventually left with their backs against the wall, in a huge pocket near Dunkirk. They were surrounded by thousands of German troops and tanks and under the gaze of German aircraft. The tanks were OK, the Germans just drove straight round the Maginot line.
     
  4. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Except he's not a really good teacher and I doubt he was a genius in everything related to rockets. Robots yes, rockets no.

    Where would he get that?

    :wall: That's what the NCR wants to do, blockade House from tourists and trade caravans.

    No you didn't, you just it was unfeasable that they use artillery. They actually do, they have a couple at the damn, and I'm guessing they would have several back home. They have military trucks. You're right, it was good enough to fire shells at the enemy though. And that's good enough.

    They would do that even if there was no famine. No Human society like the NCR rest on their laurels. Or shit.

    He gave them a good treaty because he had to, now he doesn't and the NCR would like to get it again. By cutting of his economy from tourism and trade.

    Ever heard of the Germans after WW2? Hitler didn't get elected because he was hated. Your assumptions aren't good enough in the scenario. Hitler was MORE violent then the Kaiser and he was elected! That doesn't always work, politicians aren't ALWAYS corrupt.
    The NCR could squeeze more by threatening his survival, remember their aim is a treaty that gives them a massive economic advantage, not total conquest. Also that's not a flank, the only enemies that can threaten the NCR are from the east.

    Of course.

    But they control all the ones that MATTER. The rest are under Legion hands or are plagued by raiders. Give me one that isn't!

    Hmm? Where did I say this?
     
  5. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Your points are getting silly now, obviously he knows about rockets.
    I am pretty sure he knows quite a lot about that kind of thing, and why wouldn't he? House does not tend to talk about things he is not familiar with, why would he claim to be able to build one and not do it? His doing so would degrade employer-employee relationships and confidence in him.
    An electrically powered spacecraft propulsion system uses electrical energy to change the velocity of a space craft.
    An ion thruster is a kind of spacecraft engine. It works by using static electricity or magnetism to push ions (electrically charged atoms) out the back of the spacecraft.
    He would need a hydrogen cooled turbo generator to make liquid hydrogen, which would not be easy but still a possibility.
    He could also use nuclear propulsion, like a fusion rocket. A fusion rocket is a theoretical design for a rocket driven by fusion power which could provide efficient and long-term acceleration in space without the need to carry a large fuel supply. Obviously it would be much easier to build one of these in Fallout since Fusion tech is much more advanced in that universe.
    Remember, he was a Pre War billionaire, who was pretty much a Doomsday Prepper, I bet he kept all kinds of stuff other than robots in vaults. Perhaps he built colony ships before the war and is planning to use those. We don't know the extent of what House has, but I am sure it is much more extensive than what we see in game, remember this is an employer employee relationship, don't expect to see everything.
    Raiders he could easily eliminate, then garrison the routes with securitrons. Anyway, he could just create his own.
    Which they aren't going to get, and you havn't said how they could squeeze that hard. Your idea of an invasion of FEZNV by NCR is getting silly now and you are no longer able to justify it properly, so I am done with it.
    Even if they could squeeze that hard, because they wont take over militarily, with all the securitrons and after extensive fortification, it is an impenetrable fortress. His securitrons could wait inside, and any NCR troops and troop movements outside would be annihilated by the missiles on his securitrons, his artillery. Any NCR artillery would need to get in range of New Vegas, at which point would be blown up by the missiles, or by the lasers on top of the lucky 38. Of course we must also not forgot the Boomers, whom he could use to his advantage. I would say that one securitron is worth ten NCR grunts. NCR Rangers could try sniping, which would be fine until they are targeted, and there is no way they can find a good spot, since most of the area around Vegas is leveled and they couldn't get past the wall.
    Squeezing hard doesn't matter because House obviously has a large monetary surplus and pre-War stockpiles of technology and resources, and of course the Lucky 38's reactor, which allows for self sufficiency energy wise.
    I am positive they won't invade Vegas and we are just beating a dead horse here.
    This idea that they will come back and re attack is a pipe dream.
    As I said, House could just make a large political donation to Kimballs successor, and tell him not to fuck with FEZNV, it wouldn't even be obvious, they would just need to leave him alone and stay as his biggest customer.
    A country in an unstable situation after a severe loss tends not to make rash actions. I guess when given a vote about it, the Congress and Senate would say no, unless executive power works differently in NCR.
    You say that as if you are sure that it wont affect them negatively too. They need the power and water from the Hoover Dam.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  6. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    In Fallout lore almost all fossil fuels have ran out, it's a certainty that the US is depleted at the least seeing as how they annexed Canada and Mexico out of need for petroleums, which I think you'll agree they'd only do as an absolute last resort.
     
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  7. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    I guess you are right, Liquid hydrogen or Nuclear it is then
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  8. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah obviously... evidence? He knows a lot about robotics but there's no evidence he knew a lot about robotics, he even needed to buy Repconn who were experts in the field. So it's the good ol' Bible was written by God who is all knowing and honest, meaning that everything it says has to be right because the bible wouldn't lie logic.
    That's beneath you, come on.

    ...
    Assumptions, assumptions, bets, Bible logic and worse. This argument won't go anywhere with a person who sees House as an all knowing God who prepared for every circumstance.

    Not really, some of the raider groups are massive and could overpower the Securitrons using terrain and advanced weaponry. Also Mr House lacks the numbers to garrison routes with securitrons, relying on decisive strikes rather then open warfare. That's not how trading works. You can't just make your own routes out of nowhere. Well you can but they won't do anything.

    They squeeze hard by cutting off tourism and trade, which I've said so many fucking times now. It's not an invasion but a siege of the Mojave, get my proposal right damn it. You accuse me of ignoring reasons and then do so to the point of ignoring my entire point because you don't understand what I write.

    That's not what I meant. I never advocated an assault on Vegas, but a siege on their resources, blocking off trade and travel routes to the Mojave, which would starve the economy heavily reliant on foreign tourists. Everything you've said is valid IF I proposed a direct invasion into Vegas which I didn't. That wouldn't work and would weaken the NCR too much.

    Let's forget things like guns, ammunition, chems, food and business for the casinos which need a steady supply of tourists with money.

    I'm positive that they won't invade Vegas and you have misread my words.
    A war of conquest is pipe dream, a war of containment isn't.

    Except he might not, and also the NCR government has never been fully democratic in the first place. It's always been run by the brahmin barons and military generals (hell, Tandi was basically a dictator as Caesar noticed). Except they do, Hitler's declaration of war on the US, Arabic nations decision to continue attacking Israel and more besides. Oh it does!
     
  9. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Dr. Fallout I think you're mistreating House's intelligence. It doesn't really matter whether he's an expert on rockets or not, he has a practically infinite amount of time to become an expert, any argument about what he knows is made moot by the fact that he has the time to learn.
     
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  10. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Repconn were also rocket experts.
    No, I am just talking about propulsion systems he could use, and you are discounting valid methods by calling it assumptions and bible logic, even though no assumptions were made, nor was any bible logic used. Me saying that he could have stocked ships away isn't an assumption, because I am not asserting that he did. You take all my random ideas to seriously.
    Once again you say that is if it would not affect them negatively too. Trade is a 2 way thing. Also, I suspect blanket banning on where citizens could go would not go down well. I also told you that House is prepared for this kind of trade war. Squeezing hard doesn't matter because House obviously has a large monetary surplus and pre-War stockpiles of technology and resources, and of course the Lucky 38's reactor, which allows for self sufficiency energy wise.
    Exactly
    So that means that House could run it, just like the Brahmin Barons. Hell, House could probably bankroll the brahmin barons that bankroll NCR.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  11. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    I'm kinda surprised to see this thread still chugging along. Good job everyone Kazoos for everyone!
     
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  12. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    So where does he learn it from? Don't tell me, he has an electronic library and can upload data to his brain?

    They're all dead.

    I wasn't aiming it at that. I was aiming at your assumptions of him having some sort of securitron factory, that he could simply roll over the NCR and more. Do I have to make a list? Oh yeah there's the whole he can just go into space and he made a moon base before the war.

    Except the NCR has trade all over it's area and is basically self sufficient so it wouldn't affect them as badly. So? They're not going to make riots and civil war, it is a war zone technically. Not really... so? Money without anything to spend on isn't going to cut it. Also having pre-war technology doesn't mean anything, the NCR also have pre-war tech and in bigger numbers. I never talked about energy but the economic state of Vegas.

    An assumption that doesn't work. If Mr House didn't do it while the NCR was under inept leadership during the war then why would he do it later, especially when he has more reason to do it during the war.
     
  13. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Well, that's not the most unrealistic idea, I suppose he'd store a whole lot of books and movies so that he doesn't go mad from boredom.
    What if he has infiltrated the NCRs power players? We know that the brahmin barons, the crimson caravan and, the gunrunners all have business ties with New Vegas (and by extension, House), so who's to say that he isn't trying to break into their little club?
     
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  14. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    He bought them BEFORE THE WAR. He got the knowledge then Duh
    I never said anything about a securitron factory.
    Yes he has a large database. And before you wet your panties and scream assumption, assumption I am using logic, he has to have one. Just attribute it to logical intuition
    I said that, but I meant it depending on when the war happened. And you twist my words, I said that the US had one before the Great War, not House. But we moved on from the moon battle so lets not bring that back up.
    haha, my turn. ASSUMPTION
    Well I mentioned energy because its an important part of the debate. The NCR cant cut off one of the most important things he needs, and thats important. Money is also incredibly important, he will lose money in a trade war so he needs a surplus to survive, and he's got one.

    Do you understand what assumption means? Because that's not an assumption.
    Yep, Izak hit the nail on the head.
    Not after the Battle of Hoover dam.
    Nope, it would effect them as badly as House. Their post war economy would be a mess, a process of electing a new president would be going on (whom house could, I am not assuming, bankroll), and their is a food crisis coming up, so I dont think anyone would be in the mood for a trade war.

    To be honest you are making the biggest assumption here, and that's that the NCR will wage a trade war with House, which is highly unlikely. You have not yet justified why a trade war would benefit NCR. It would affect them negatively too, and since they are in such a precarious position any way, they aren't gonna prance around fighting trade wars with powerful economies for shits and giggles. You dont understand that a trade war is a big thing, almost as bad as a real war, and proper nations dont fuck around like that. All it would result in is a lower GDP for both sides and a pissed off House. It will just put NCR in a weaker position than it already is, so no President in his right mind would do something so stupid.

    NCR's economy is in the toilet, and after a expensive war the deficit will be sky high, they will be in debt and people can't afford to pay the tax. Are these people really fit to be declaring trade wars?
    Vegas' economy has been uninterruptedly booming and he has a large amount of caps, hell he spent 812,000 on sourcing the Platinum Chip, and he has a large surplus of money. House is competent with monetary matters, of course, so he has a large surplus. He would not go it without a good backup fund in case things go wrong big time (like in this scenario). To be honest he would probably win the trade war because NCR would run out of money first.
    This trade war idea you have is a pipe dream.

    you have stopped making good arguments and are coming out with this random rubbish about assumptions and this unjustified nonsense about trade wars. If this is all you are going to do then I am done.

    I forgot to debunk some of the other random shit you came up with so I'll get to that now:
    So you say some of them are massive; which ones? Name me a massive raider group.
    terrain is not an important factor or advantage to the raiders because trade routes/roads are made on agreeable land, unless their is not another option, and there is not any land I could foresee giving the raiders an advantage like rocky land/trees. There is no fog/ bad weather conditions they could use either, its pretty much always a drought. All trade routes heading to Vegas are pretty much flat desert roads.
    They dont have advanced weaponry, unless you class old pre war/makeshift guns and knives as advanced. Compared to the securitrons vast arsenal, raider weapons are popguns.
    How do you know how many securitrons he has? Pretty sure he had quite a lot, and thats before he unlocked the vault. Upgraded securitrons have a combat effectiveness of 235% by the upgrade too, so numbers arent everything.
    You are assuming that he doesn't have enough. You piously lambaste people for making what you see as "assumptions", and then go and make pretty big assumptions that have no facts to back them up.
    So he could make decisive strikes against the raider groups and eliminate them before they become a threat. And we have never seen the securitrons waging open war, but I suspect they would do well because of their lethal weapons, durability and psychological effect on human troops.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
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  15. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    I didn't read all of this, but, about the "How can House make a superpower".. In Canticle for Leibowitz, in 600 years (maybe even less. I know for sure it's less by at least 50 years, since the second cold war is said to have started 50 years before the third part of the novel), an "empire" led by a cunning warlord evolves to become one of the 2 super powers in the 3000's, along with the East Asian coalition.
     
  16. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Care to elaborate further on that? It's unfortunate for me that there's not much that kind of books being sold in my country.

    Anyway, Doc, you've to admit that Doomsday here is making solid arguments, but you're kind of only parroting the exact same arguments you're making that we've been through before.
    Also
    To be honest, now that I think about it, I finally get where people who distrusts Mr. House are coming from. Mr. House does has his flaws, like being secretly narcissistic. But that's not the worst flaw he ever had, and certainly not his disdain of others (though this is probably one of the most hated flaw he had, which is why I thought the best Courier to work with him are those professional enough to overlook his disdain of others). No, his worst flaw, was that he look far into the future; might be even too far for anyone who chose to support him to keep up with him. I've contemplated on Brivoo's argument where he argued that Mr. House's goal would be irrelevant to mankind by the time it's realized. Well, I disagreed with him, but I come to think of the opposite; if Brivoo thought by the time Mr. House's goals are achieved, it would be irrelevant for mankind, how about before it happens people gets tired of waiting/helping him? Since he literally gave us the numbers it need for him to reignite hi-tech development sector (20 years), that's what I meant he looked far into the future. Life in the wasteland are harsh, and 200 years after the Great War, as one problem was solved, another arise to challenge the life in the waste. Small folks would seek to simply eke out an existence; enough food and water, and a job to simply do better day by day. Mr. House, though, is looking forward far into the future, that he can't think of what people need in a shorter time frame. Say, small folks are looking forward to how they will be doing in 1 year, but Mr. House are only eager to look forward for how people doing in 10 years. I disagreed with people saying Mr. House 'didn't care', since if he didn't why would he even bother wiping out the Kings and/or imposing heavy taxes on Primm should you let those reconcile with the NCR, but I think it's just that he's oblivious and ignorant of what's going on around him as he looked far into the future. He's still human, after all. So why did I support him anyway? Because I think, with a Good Karma Courier and really specific playthrough, the ending slides we get after that are the best out of the bunch, especially considering that Mr. House reign are most likely would be a dual dictatorship as argued by Ragemage in another thread. Coupled that with lots of my past arguments here in these thread and that of other House's supporter..... you get the idea.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  17. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Not sure if he's secretly narcissistic, he seems to be pretty open about how great he thinks he is.
     
  18. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I'm actually didn't really get that impression even now as I went through my second playthrough with him, especially since the rest of the game world were genuinely curious of him and somewhat excited when the Lucky 38 gets opened for the Courier, confirming him being so obscure for the rest of the people in the Mojave. I mean, okay, he talks about how he (and us) are great people, but like many thought it was kind of things he said to win our trust. After taking a look at his obituary for a second time (thoroughly too) when Brivoo pointed it out, I was genuinely surprised of him being narcissist. Still, if we're to argue that his narcissism would affect his performance, it would come to no end because as we can see it doesn't affect him from being able to reform the Three Families and get the Las Vegas ruins back into a working order in form of New Vegas Strip.
     
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  19. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    I'm sure his narcissism doesn't affect his everyday dealings, besides it's not like he's the only narcissistic dictator with a chance to rule Vegas (Caesar, Lanius, Benny and a Douchey Courier are all potential D-bag rulers).
     
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  20. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    I'll PM you a .pdf.

    ---

    Basically, the novel is split into 3 parts. In the second part, there's war looming on the horizon, with 3 - 4 primary tribes. The so called empire led by Hannegan, a tribe of people who eat meat (animal meat), the Laredans and the Nomads. Hannegan is quite cunning, and manages to make a treaty with the meat eaters (forgot their chieftain's name.. sorry) to kill Laredans, and at the same time made a treaty with the Laredans to kill meat eaters. Neither side know of this. Eventually, he makes a plan to smuggle in diseased cattle to the meat eaters, which spread disease to all their cattle. This makes them furious and leads to them attacking the Laredans. Both sides apparently die by the end of the second part.

    Hannegan emerges victorious. 600 years later after this, you have humans colonizing the space. Space ships. self driving cars. technology everywhere. Mind you, this is after around 1 500 years of complete ignorance. After everything got nuked to hell, people destroyed all technology and killed all smart/literate people. Very few escaped the wrath of the simpletons. (they believed that intelligence and technology are what led to the world being destroyed) One of those was the founder of the Abbey of Leibowitz.

    I really recommend reading it, it's one of the best novels that were ever written.