Why Robert Edwin House is the best hope for the wasteland and humanity

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Throatpunch, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Amazing. I've heard that it has its' influences on the Fallout franchise (and probably the Wasteland too?). Thanks a lot, mate!
     
  2. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    Yeah, it inspired several things. The major ones are the Guardians in Wasteland 1, which inspired the Brotherhood of Steel. There's also the Abbey in Fallout 2, but that one was cancelled, sadly. But it operated on the same principle as the Abbey in the novel. You can check it out in the Restoration patch for F2.
     
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  3. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    So? Mr House has never mentioned he got an education from Repconn, and if he started talking about spaceships surely he would mention that, you know to BUILD TRUST IN YOUR EMPLOYERS? Wasn't he good at that?

    Sure... :smug: (I'm sorry if that came across as arrogant but I just had to. No hard feelings?)
    Why does he HAVE to have one? Because it makes LOGICAL sense? (Yeah, like blowing up the BOS makes logical sense, like making one courier makes sense [let's forget that they can be raided, attacked by wild beasts, starve, die of thirst or run away] and like how letting Benny free reign of the city even with the chip...)

    Wrong! You actually said that Mr House could have made a moon base BEFORE the war, not just the US. Do you want me to back it up?

    If only, but it's canon. Ever heard of the raid of Navarro?

    It is, but energy means that Vegas keeps running with power, not money. But how much of a surplus is there, and how can he properly regulate it? Would the casinos prefer it over making money or would they dislike how they get less money?

    'a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.'
    You're assuming that Mr House has the senators and brahmin barons on his bankroll without proof or evidence. Where's the problem?

    Yeah I know, IF the nail wasn't one he was targeting. Sorry to say, but just because you have a connection with something doesn't mean they manipulate you or bribe you. Otherwise the companies could be under the NCR's control... or Redding's control, or the mayor of Vault City control's.

    A war zone is whatever the government wants it to be. If the area is blocked off how will the average citizen know differently?

    Their post-war economy is based on brahmin trade which is safely in California, unless you're talking about the energy problems (Brahmin herding doesn't require much electrical energy) then the economy will continue well enough. Oh I see, you've changed tack from being a probability to a possibility. Fair enough, though keep in mind that I doubt the NCR will approve a backstab by Mr House (the propaganda material...). Ah the food crisis, yes there is that. Frankly that won't matter even if they don't fight it. If anything the trade war could end up killing a lot of soldiers which would save some food.

    I know, I'm not pretending it WILL happen but if it did (and there's a possibility) then they could win it. They can't win a straight out war and invade the Mojave itself. Except I have, many times. For one there's the morale victory of defeating (indirectly of course) the backstabbing and untrustworthy expansionist bastard called Mr House, then there's the creation of more stricter terms allowing some NCR military presence in the Mojave (akin to the original forces before the second battle of Hoover Dam) and stronger control over trade in Vegas which would help make the economy stronger. What precarious position? Their main driving force of the economy is literally untouched (brahmin herding) and the NCR worked well BEFORE they got to Hoover Damn. The only problem they faced was lack of food, manpower losses and disappointment in leadership (not because they were in the Mojave, but because they weren't doing enough against the Legion). Oh, well if we go by 'proper' nations then we can discard the majority of the world's countries. Except it won't put the NCR in a weaker position. Also they don't even need to declare war in the first place! They can just embargo the shit out Vegas, which has been used to great effect against the Russian federation over Ukraine by the US and EU.

    Not enough evidence to support this, apart from mentions that the NCR is losing caps by funding the war effort. That in itself doesn't mean the economy is down the drain, because the lack of funding actually happens a lot with most countries in a war. Russia, France and England were all down the drain economically but they still continued on after WW2, with their factories creating good and having enough money to trade various items. Who knows? They may only need to enforce trade embargoes, though I doubt they would be able to make bigger concessions. From NCR tourists and protection (Who put in the farms? NCR. Which country's citizens go to Vegas to spend vast amounts of caps? NCR.), the only people who did things themselves are outside of Vegas and House's influence. Westside basically. Being skilled in monetary matters doesn't mean a damn if you have little ways to make money. Skill doesn't mean you have a surplus of an item. Not necessarily, the brahmin trade, gun trade and various other trades will remain untouched by House.

    Of course, please feel free to show yourself out if you feel it necessary.

    The 80's. The Pitt Raiders. Hell even the Fiends are pretty powerful, House only destroys them AFTER they get weakened by the NCR.

    Yet still they form a plague on trade routes and cause damage to caravans and travelers. Also, sand storms sometimes imp

    Actually the Fiends have plasma and laser weaponry and some Vipers and Jackals have grenade launchers, flamers and advanced melee weapons.

    Then why should he fear the NCR? They could beat him but they didn't want another enemy in the area. Yet even if they're upgraded they can be taken out by Legion and NCR soldiers. No because it's a fact, he doesn't have enough in the beginning (this is mentioned by the NCR, Mr House and many various other people in Vegas and the Mojave) and also the Securitrons only win at Hoover Damn with the help of the NCR who are then weakened (note how Mr House sends the majority of his army AFTER the battle with the Legion is over). Then there's the fact that even with the Securitrons he can only garrison areas rather poorly. He only sends a couple to Goodsprings, ignores Primm and leaves Freeside (RIGHT NEXT FUCKING DOOR) alone. Either he's hoarding them all up or he just doesn't have enough.

    Except that's now how raider groups work. Most of the time they're nomads who travel around looking for fresh caravans and trading routes to loot. The Securitrons would have to find them first, and raiders rarely gather in large numbers. Then there's the fact that raiders who do stay in a single place know the terrain better, and set up in heavily fortified areas. Many of them are also well armed and can live off the land.
     
  4. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    I played 150+ hours of FNV and never seen a sandstorm. I dont think sandstorms would be useful anyway. If its a proper divide sandstorm they wont be able to see 5 feet in front of them, so wont be able to ambush properly. They would need infra red heat vision tech, which they certainly dont have. Also we never here people from Crimson Caravan etc complain about the weather, so I dont think its an important point.
    I know but it takes about 5 of them, its very hard to kill off securitrons, and don't mention the Legion because after Houses win at Hoover Dam they are irrelevant.
    Well, each of a Mark II Securitron were admitted to be equal to a platoon of NCR soldiers. That's saying a lot, especially considering that if you go House route the Mark II Securitrons won't be few in number. Securitron Vault under the Fort were mentioned to have the capability to produce additional Securitons. How much more these additional Securitrons it can produce and how far into the future it can do so wasn't mentioned, but House surely kept the blueprint/schematics or whatever necessary to make even more Securitrons/armed forces. It's not too far fetched to say so if we're to believe House has what it takes to reignite hi-tech development sectors and so on and so on. Just take a look out of those windows in the Securitron Vault into the factory, some of the Securitrons are getting assembled, and after activating the securitron army, the noise of moving hydraulics will sound throughout the vault, which points to additional robots being assembled in other unseen sections in the vault.
    I think you are underestimating how hard it is to kill securitrons:

    Takes 5 Brotherhood of Steel Paladins to take 1 down.
    Still pretty pathetic compared the securitrons:
    The PDQ-88b securitron is a large, monowheel robot with a titanium alloy housing, resistant to shrapnel and small arms fire. The PDQ-88b securitron is heavily-armed. Its left arm contains a GlastinghouseX-25 Gatling laser for medium range engagements. For close-range suppression and crowd control, the securitron mounts a 9mm machinegun in its right arm. However, these are only secondary weapons; concealed compartments in its shoulders contain M-235 missile launchers for long range and surface-to-air engagements, and a rapid-fire G-28 grenade launching system for close range engagements. The robots also have onboard auto-repair systems to repair any damage sustained from combat. Thus armed, a securitron can handle nearly any combat situation.
    The securitrons would just have to patrol the routes and act as an escort to the caravans and the raiders probably would not have much success attacking them. A big purification run of the Mojave would probably be very successful, remember the Mojave's not an endlessly large place and they seem pretty adapt at tracking already (found the BOS Hidden Valley and Boot Riders HQ). Also given House is working closely with NCR so he could ask them to send in special forces like rangers to go on a search and destroy mission to deal with them.
    So they can easily be destroyed. Thing is we've seen how easily securitrons can kill individuals so small groups should not be an issue. Of course it would be easier to kill them all in one go with rockets, but they only come in small packs. 5-10 raiders vs 5 Mark 2 Securitrons, is not gonna go well for the raiders.
    They are not moneymaking assets, and he has no obligation to protect anyone like NCR does. And your wrong about freeside, he pretty much kills everything there after the end so there is a large securitron presence there for a while, and he could get a large presence there quickly.
    He probably has over 500. Remember the vault? Look out the windows and there are hundreds in all directions. There are probably around a 100 more on the strip. House himself says: "Broadcasting encrypted VMQ-boosted command signals to hundreds of Securitrons eats up more power than you might expect."
    It will because they will LOSE MONEY. They both trade and trade is a two way thing so they will lose profit.
    You have totally missed the point of what I am saying. Your trade war/embargo Idea is silly and you cannot justify why they would want to do it, and who would do it, and how it would actually benefit them. They would only lose money, so why would they? People dont do stuff like that unless it would really benefit them. You say they could, but there's no reason why they would. I've asked you time and time again why they would want to suddenly embargo and raise tariffs. It makes no sense. People dont just do things like that for no reason. You cannot justify it. It wont happen. Its almost as if you dont understand how this kind of stuff works.

    You ignored half the stuff I said about the huge debt and deficit they will have after the war. Vietnam style wars that last a decade are not cheap. They will be in a bad situation because of that. The NCR will have lost immense amounts of money during the war, and for what?
    But they didn't prance around starting trade wars with more powerful economies for shits and giggles because they knew they couldn't afford it. All it would result in is a lower GDP for both sides and a pissed off House. It will just put NCR in a weaker position than it already is, so no President in his right mind would do something so stupid. People would lose jobs, they have many people working on farms around Vegas and they would be prohibited to go near the city.
    I am fed up of debating your trade war ideas so that is my final post about it.

    I dont think they would start a trade war/embargo on a nation that is holding its arms open and saying "lets both be at peace, lets both trade, and you can send as many tourists in as you like." Given NCR is a mature nation I dont think it would just go "fuck off I dont want peace and prosperity I'm going to embargo you for no apparent reason".
    They'll gain money from the agreements they have with House. Anyway House has the balance of power after the battle of Hoover dam, have you read the print out document he gives to the leadership?

    On the subject of blocking tourism and immigration, and NCR crippling House Black Angel said:
    Well, you did insisted that Mr. House relied on 'Immigrants'. That's not 100% right. If you say 'Tourists', okay I agree. Squatters, however, are unwanted. Anyway, I don't see how the NCR can prevent their own citizens from visiting New Vegas. Remember, the NCR's territory are too big, and the political structure of their ruling council allows for each of the representative of each cities to pursue their own agenda. While they seemed to eventually gets united in their voice of denouncing Kimball and Oliver when Hanlon called them out, we have no idea how they are going to deal with New Vegas in the future. I don't see how could they unite in preventing their own citizens and trades from ever entering the Mojave. It's just too unrealistic even in the world of Fallout. Those water and electricity are, like I've said, too much to let go to try haggling any further with Mr. House.

    Well, they better present something equal in the deal for more energy and more resources. Again, I see no reason and no way they can just prevent their citizens and trades to enter the Mojave. Also, now that I think about it, even without the NCR's tourists flowing to New Vegas, Mr. House still managed to rebuild it. The NCR's tourism are only there to provide Mr. House with profits. If he wanted to rebuild New Vegas without the help and profit from the NCR, he can still do it, since, like I said, the Mojave was actually pretty self-sufficient with all those water sources from Lake Mead, Colorado River, and Goodsprings sources. Any settlements can thus farm their own food, coupled with the fact that most of the Mojave was intact and no difference from what it was in pre-War, and then there's also the power from the Dam, the Mojave can still rebuild. Albeit, of course, the progress would slow down, without the profit generated from NCR's tourism and trades with New Vegas.

    Go read some more of Black Angels stuff. He totally debunks the idea that an NCR embargo would destroy House and the Mojave.
    He wants to stay in the Mojave.
    TBH most of the people who prop up the corrupt NCR government would be pissed off about an embargo because of the business they lose. That includes brahmin barons (who are very important, as you have emphasised), where do you think they get the steak in the casinos from? They are too interlinked. And as I said House could easily bankroll the new leadership and tell them to play nice.
    Are you implying you have won the debate and I should leave? Thats arrogant. Because your trade war point is moot and I have justified how securitrons can easily protect against and destroy raiders.
    He has the information in his database.
    Why would that build trust? Anyway what I am saying is just logical, of course he has the info about rockets in the database.
    My feelings are very hard. I probably shouldn't have said "I'm sure", I meant it as speculation
    Jesus this isnt about House's logic its about yours. Think about it. Some things just have to be true, how is he supposed to keep all this info stored away without a database. He'll probably have several.
    I think you know it makes logical sense that he has one but you are just denying it to prolong this. He has a fucking database, stop denying it. there is actual hard evidence in the game. The FOTA ask you to bug it and you bug it, and House mentions how it took him 30 seconds to debug it.
    They were stealing and hoarding (not doing anything productive with it) technology that House could have. Also they posed a threat to Vegas, and didn't like the securitrons because they were robots.
    YEAH COULD have NOT DID
    I am not accepting it as true nor certain to happen. Nor am I accepting he has them on his bankroll, just he COULD have them on his bankroll. How hard is that to comprehend.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  5. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Eh, that's probably a gameplay concession, Nevada experiences sandstorms fairly frequently and it's possible that there's a sandstorm being depicted on the art for the game.
    Not to mention Vegas is fairly close to the Divide, which is notorious for its sandstorms.
    Don't get ahead of yourself there, if Caesar's still alive then the Legion's still a superpower.
    Eh, raiders act somewhat like guerillas, they attack, loot and scatter; certainly not the easiest group to destroy.
    I think Doctor Fallout is saying the possible House-NCR war could cut some of the excess manpower off of the NCR, saving them from (or delaying) famine.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  6. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Well, regarding Raiders, strongest Raider faction in the Mojave by around the Second Battle of Hoover Dam were the Fiends. If anything, the ending slides only showed us how the Fiends were dealt with by the Securitrons, though the difficulty of achieving it wasn't shown. If two Fiends' leader were alive, they will overwhelm the NCR's trooper before the Securitrons could deal with them. If you killed exactly three of the leaders, the rest would be eradicated by the Securitrons. And then, based on what you do in Zion, either the White Legs would be wiped out, leaving only the 80s to be worried about, or both of them. Seriously, 200 years after the Great War, as civilization rises, raiders and the likes should only be minor annoyance. Of course, the Great Khans carving an empire of their own in the north west could also possibly pose a threat to Mr. House's business due to the Great Khans (or just Papa Khan) still hated Mr. House for being exiled from New Vegas proper (though they hated the NCR more than House).

    As for House-NCR war 'saving them from the famine', that's way too much of a stretch. After 7 years of unsuccessful Mojave campaign draining the NCR of their men, caps, and will to carry on imperialism, I think they would instead go down the safer route of continue trading with the FEZNV as they tried to take care of their own internal problems.
     
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  7. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    That ending with the Great Khans seems to be very much about the Khans putting aside their past grudges and building a new future for themselves, so I doubt they'll be aching for a war with an old, powerful and, minor enemy of theirs.
     
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  8. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Aaaaaand there's that. So where's this raider threat Doc talked about, again? The Fiends pretty much gets eradicated, especially if you took the head of their three leaders and also taking out Motor-Runner. The White Legs mostly gets eradicated too, if you chose that for Honest Hearts. The only ones probably the 80s, and some others that the merchants (like the Happy Trails) talked about, but that was due to the NCR focusing their men on Mojave Campaign. If we're talking post-Second Battle, the Legion return back to their territory in Arizona, the NCR returned to California, and Mr. House's Securitrons started to police the entirety of Mojave.
     
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  9. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    If the situation in the NCR/Legion deteriorates then quite a few raiders could conceivably emerge from there, of course that would also nullify any threat the NCR/Legion posed whatsoever, so that's kind of a win-lose situation for House.
    Although, if the NCR turns to shit doesn't that mean the FEZNV is fucked? Their economy is built around NCR tourism and if the NCR enters into a combined depression and famine I doubt they'll be aching for some expensive food and gambling. Does that mean House has to balance two nations? He's a fairly intelligent and capable man but I still doubt he could do that.
     
  10. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    'Deteriorates' in what way? They continued their clash in the future? When that happens, FEZNV probably already strong enough to withstand both the NCR and the Legion, so any kind of raiders really should just be annoyance, if there's any at all.
    Also, I don't see NCR turns to shit any sooner. Remember, as much as House disdained the format of NCR's government, he realized the vastness and their number are vital to his plan, hence he insisted on keeping good relationship with the NCR (but not their military echelons), while also conceived a plan to frame Kimball for the failure of Mojave Campaign. Beside, contrary to popular belief, the Mojave was actually self-sufficient and most likely gonna produce a surplus in food, while water and electricity is really no prob at all, so in return of tourists and other trades, the Mojave can provide the NCR with food. This is also confirmed with the fact that there's the NCR Sharecropper Farm, worked on by the farmers from the NCR as a part of Thaler's Act. Of course, there's the radiation problem but that's supposedly not that really big of a deal for the mind like Mr. House and of course with the help of the Courier. On top of that, with the NCR-Legion conflict resolved (for now) FEZNV probably gonna seek to turn other part of the land in the Mojave into another big farmland.
    Still, who knows. Maybe the 80s gonna grow bigger than both the White Legs and the Fiends combined, possibly gonna match that of the post-Second Battle Great Khans if left unchecked, so there's that.
     
  11. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    He is killed at Hoover Dam in the House victory scenario.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  12. GeorgeCostanzaTheMovie

    GeorgeCostanzaTheMovie First time out of the vault

    Jun 22, 2016
    Maybe this isn't a good enough reason to not join him, but House comes off as incredibly shady. Like, as soon as the courier outlives his/her usefulness House will off them. Idk, he just gives me the wrong vibe.
     
  13. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    Thanks for bumping this thread, I had been trying to think of a reason to bump it for ages and you've done it for me.

    If anybody wants to get into a debate about Robert House I'm raring to go.

    @Dr Fallout what happened to your you dude, you never replied to my last post in this debate and we haven't seen you in this thread since. Is it because of that trade war thing? No hard feelings I hope bro.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  14. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    That is the exact opposite of what happens in the game if you complete the House questline.

    House is a very interesting choice. The great thing about New Vegas is there is no definite good or bad choice. Which makes it much more mature than Bethesda's current abomination.
     
  15. GeorgeCostanzaTheMovie

    GeorgeCostanzaTheMovie First time out of the vault

    Jun 22, 2016
    Ah I know he doesn't do any of that, that's why I said that it's probably not a good enough reason.
     
  16. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    You make a good point there is no right or wrong choice.

    However, why can't you just say there is just no good or bad choice instead of spraying your anti bethesda rage in everyone's faces. Theres nothing wrong with anti bethesda rage, but please leave that to other threads. I want this OT and for it not to devolve into a "bethesda are huge wankers" thread. I'd really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
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  17. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    You're absolutely right. I apologize. It's just a little difficult not to bring up comparisons to Fallout 4's factions when discussing those in New Vegas. I will stay on topic.

    As for House, I chose to ally with him the first time. He's one of the most intelligent people alive in the Fallout universe and has centuries' worth of experience.
     
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  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Which made it even more satisfying when I left his corpse to rott in that tube of his without any those powers and controll he had. I love New Vegas, for giving me tons of options.
     
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  19. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Oh you've gone so far ahead without me. I'll respond to it later, don't you worry!
     
  20. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    C'mon dude, we are all waiting for a reply