Arabic peoples and communities in the Fallout universe?

Byzantine

Sink me in the ocean.
It's just a thought, and I hope this isn't too sensitive a topic in light of current events in the world. I don't seek to provoke people by bringing this up, merely to have a little discussion about the possibilty of fleshing out the withstanding lore of the Fallout universe.

With exception to perhaps Aradesh and Shady Sands, in my experiences playing most of the Fallout games, there seemed to be a distinct lack of Middle Eastern characters or elements across them all (which was a little disappointing, from my perspective). I understand that the games' setting in the United States might be something of an explanation for this, but I've been pondering the question, all the same; it's not like they're entirely absent in the Wasteland, let alone conveniently extinct for writing purposes. I understand that most of the surviving powers of the Middle East were, however, suspects in the 2053 nuclear attack on Tel Aviv before the Great War came full circle, which would have certainly resulted in a violent dwindling of numbers on either side of the given conflict.

It certainly stands to reason that Middle Eastern peoples lived in the United States prior to the series of events in 2077, before the mass quarantines kicked in (following an anonymous biological weapon that was unleashed on the country), although I strongly doubt that the notion of multiculturalism would be entirely welcomed with open arms (considering the ever pervasive 1950's theme, in addition to the ongoing conflicts between America and China). As with most other ethnic minorities at the time, I'd imagine that Middle Eastern citizens would have had lived in the more isolated and run down districts in the cities and suburbs they inhabited. Surely, some of them would have survived the Great War and lived long enough to carve a niche for themselves in the Wasteland? Could there not be the elusive Arabic community somewhere out there? Or even a newfound nation inspired by the likes of Saladin and Qutaybah, hidden away in some valley?

I seldom doubt the lore of the Fallout universe would be damaged in any way to have a few more Middle Eastern flavours in it, not to entirely dominate it, but just to be a little more prominent. After all, surely the presence of a few more Arabic peoples here and there stands a chance when super mutants and robotic dogs are wandering about the place, looking for fights with ghouls that glow in the dark. For me, the idea of caliphates fighting with raiders over vital territory has potential to add great variation to the Fallout world, as does the presence of Islamic missionaries (akin to the New Canaanites or Followers, perhaps) wandering across the desert in search of struggling communities to assist and educate.

Although I'm not quite sure how this idea will be received, I'm fairly curious to see how you might respond, nevertheless.

Thank you for reading these ramblings. I hope you've enjoyed doing so.

~ Byzantine
 
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The Fallout games are set in a small part of USA, the California and maybe there are Arabian communities in other parts of USA.
But Arabs didn't make a significant part of the USA population before the Nuclear Apocalypse, so I doubt they would be having their own community. Most likely a few Arabs every now and then across the continent blended in with other communities.
 
With exception to perhaps Aradesh and Shady Sands, in my experiences playing most of the Fallout games, there seemed to be a distinct lack of Middle Eastern characters or elements across them all (which was a little disappointing, from my perspective).

I am fairly certain that Aradesh was supposed to be Indian, not Middle Eastern. "Aradesh" is not a real name, as far as I'm aware, but "desh" (as in "Bangladesh") is a Sanskrit derived word meaning "land". His accent and appearance seemed more Indian than Arab to me as well.

As far as the appearance of Arabs in Fallout, I'm with oxidize, there was probably not a significant pre-war population in the US. Maybe if they did a Fallout: Detroit there could be a few characters with Arab or Muslim surnames (since there is a significant minority population living there), but otherwise I don't think it would really fit with the setting.

In terms of Islam, I'm generally against the depiction of pre-war existing religion in Fallout. The pre-war world seemed fairly secular and with so much of the old world destroyed and forgotten, it doesn't make sense that a belief system like Islam or Christianity would survive when so much else didn't. If the series is going to explore religious themes, I'd much rather see it in the context of a totally new religious movement emerging in the context of the wasteland.

I make exception for Mormonism because it's been handled reasonably well, it's an extremely large and well-established community in Utah and the Southwest, and Mormonism has some interesting provisions about keeping a year's supply of food, etc, that would give them a leg up in the event of the apocalypse.

That said, I think there are some striking parallels between Caesar's Legion and ISIS (or whatever they're calling themselves these days): the misogyny, the indiscriminate slaughter of "profligates", enslavement of captives and the surprising military success and expansion of a seemingly low tech, rag-tag group of raiders with delusions of creating an empire.
 
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I don't know, as an atheist, I am not really against the depiction of old world religions in Fallout, as long as they don't use them for preaching and instead take a more secular view, it being that Religion is just a part of some people's lives and philosophies, with all the pros and cons that carries. Like the ydid with the Mormons in Honest Hearts, not like the shallow Bible verses and dumb "Church = Good" shit in Fallout 3's Karma system. Also, after an Apocalyptic event I would think religions and superstitions would actually see a raise rather than an extinction.
 
It's not as much 'secular' as 'mature'. Although 'secular' would probably be a good word too, I guess. It's just that New Vegas does a really good job taking on more controversial themes in games as religion or homosexuality, whereas a lot games will just show religion as either 'default good' or 'ulitmate "I'm 14 and I've just discovered atheism" evil' and homosexuality as 'campy as hell' or 'conveniently bisexual for romance subplot purposes'. That's what's awesome about NV - it's written for a mature audience, not kids, who got their hands on a 'PEGI 18' game.
 
Also, after an Apocalyptic event I would think religions and superstitions would actually see a raise rather than an extinction.

I agree, but I think they are likely to be new religions rather than whatever people before the cataclysm believed, given the lack of knowledge of pre-war life among the general population and the prevalence of "tribal" groups. It would have been interesting to see the Viper snake cult, for instance, instead of just hearing about it, in Fallout 1.
 
We can thank Vault 15 for the Indian/Middle-Eastern flavor and the largely Indian religious concept of Dharma in Shady Sands, at least according to the Fallout Bible. I'm not sure how much of this extends back to the actual development of Fallout 1, as the concept of the Vault Experiments didn't exist back then, but V15 was supposed to be a high-population vault whose occupants comprised several different ethnicities and ideologies (and, I'd imagine, kept a library full of cultural history besides, as it was also, IIRC, the point of origin for the Jackals, the Vipers, and the Khans). To whit, it's not entirely unfeasible that there could have been a Muslim minority within the vault whose descendents are still practicing within the NCR to this day.

It seems that most of the religion in Fallout came from a can-- that is to say, "pre-packaged" religious communities that had the luck or foresight to ride out the bombs as a cohesive unit. I suppose it is possible that there was such a community of Muslims besides the one possibly holed up in V15, though in my (admittedly, incomplete) awareness, there's no currently practicing branch of Islam in America whose strictures would give it a leg-up in the doomsday prepping arena, a la the Mormons.

The remainder of the Wasteland's faith seems to mostly be postwar cults and tribal religions, with only a low level of sun-bleached, hard-put workaday pre-war religion remaining. It's possible that Islam survived into the wasteland in the general populace in places where it was practiced by a sizable minority, but if postwar Christianity is any indicator it wouldn't be too strong, even among its adherents: perhaps a few (very) loosely-kept moral and dietetic principles and the occasional exclamation/combat taunt containing "Allah" instead of "Jesus" or an expletive.
 
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Sorry for doing a plug for my RPG and ideas people but in the Fallout Texas setting I have been working on I have a faction called the Angels of the Apocalypse which is a paramilitary Christian cult with anti technology stance. (not all technology, just technology they deem 'wrong' or 'evil' according to the context of their belief)
Originally I had them in mind as a post apocalyptic catholic movement that was out to create a new holy roman empire and they would be using ranks and titles from that for their own hierarchy.

But it didn't sit that well with me for various reasons so I decided to rather make them a sort of warped amalgamation of various Christian streams/movements that existed in Dallas, the Angels themselves not even really knowing where they picked up parts and pieces from to form their current version of Christianity.

They would not be the only version or mainstream version of Christianity in the region as there would be plenty of moderate ones who believe that the Angels have twisted the context of their faith, are insane, or seek to justify their anti technology/converting everyone agenda with some higher goal.
 
As an addendum to my last post, I know it focuses mostly on Islam when the OP was focused mostly on Arabic communities in general, but there's a reason for that: namely, apart from religious or demireligious ones, there don't seem to be many (really, any) pre-war ideological or cultural groups left intact in the wasteland, except for "devolved generic skid row American."

I think that was deliberate on the part of Fallout 1, part of the point of it, how much of a light touch it handled pre-war cultural leavings with. Simply put, there almost weren't any, majority or minority. That's one of the unfortunate effects of wiping almost all of humanity off the map-- with over 90% of humanity gone, almost 90% of human culture goes with it, especially considering that most of the survivors came from vaults whose occupants weren't chosen with any regard to whether the there was enough of a given ethnic, cultural, or religious group to be able to maintain those identities on anything greater than a familial level. Even for those cultural or genetic heritages who boasted sufficient members to maintain them as a statistically significant subset of the local population, but especially among those that didn't, there would be an increasing degree of dilution, die-off, and drift as time went on.

In short, it's not incredibly likely that any sizable middle-eastern culture survived in the US unless someone in charge of a Vault saw to it that there would be, though it is remotely possible. There is the possibility that one small core of survivors-- a neighborhood, a single family, or even just one person if they were charismatic or ruthless enough-- thrived in the wasteland and in doing so drew others to them who sought to follow and emulate them, effectively re-seeding a wasteland-lite version of their practices and beliefs. Still, I doubt anything that grew out of it would resemble pre-existing Middle Eastern culture any more than Junktown resembles smalltown U.S.A. or Adytum resembles Los Angeles.
 
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Needless to say, everyone's responses so far have been a pleasure to read; I certainly appreciate the input.
 
I would say depending on what US relations were like with the Arab Union(I think was the omnibus superpower) following the end of the Resource Wars against the European Commonwealth would dictate Arab immigration/entry into the United States.
 
As for the Mormons stock piling food, that only helps them if they went into fallout shelters when the sirens went off. Since most people on the West Coast didn't take the sirens warning, a lot of people died. And Salt Lake City got hit just as hard as other parts of the West, so its easy to assume that all Mormons decended from Vault 70? or which ever one was in Salt Lake. Even if people too shelter, they wouldn't be inclined to preserve their culture because survival is more important. They would have passed on some portion of their religion and culture to their children, but not the whole thing like someone in a Vault could do. So you would get a lite or skeletal version of a culture rather than the whole thing.

In relation to the other posts, a Arab or Muslim influenced culture could exists, but they'd likely be as hollow as the Legion is compared to Rome. They're would be some of the religious philosophy and culture, but not identical or even directly related to the pre war groups. Unless a larger group survived in relative isolation. Meaning, Vaults, hid in a cave, hid in sewers, built bomb shelters with building materials in religious buildings.
 
Nothing would kill off the Book of Mormon, Abraham and Pearl of Great Price. Personally I think that if Obsidian ever gets to make another game, it should be based around New Jerusalem or New Canaan. Mormons are probably one of the most fascinating denominations of Christianity, and with their missionary culture and food storage they would realistically become the most common religion across the US within 200 years. Well, outside of the Amish.

I definitely agree that we shouldn't do the Fo3 "Relgion = Good", both sides of it should be depicted, but I think plenty of Biblical allusions, just as in Honest Hearts, should be included.

Plus, a Fallout game set in Utah would let us see Burham springs in all of her glory. I'm really curious as to how Molechs and Gehennas were to be created.
 
Wasn't the reason that there were so many New Canaanites left in the West because Vault 70 was located in Salt Lake City, and naturally had a lot of Mormons in it? That their peers not in the vault saved a lot of canned goods and the like presumably made things a lot easier on the folks from Vault 70 after they left.

(Per the Fallout Bible that was also the one where the jumpsuit extruders were supposed to fail after 6 months, so I guess they were in a hurry to get out of there.)
 
A survivalist mindset and freeze dried food doesn't save you if you don't go into a bomb shelter before they hit. You can't live to see another day if you get vaporized on 10/23/2077.
 
Back to Byzantine's original inquiry, for the US, the 50s-inspired answer seems like "Where were Middle Eastern cultures established, and what cultures were they, in the US by 1960?".

I don't know the answer, and I wouldn't suggest the answer dictate what belongs in the setting, but it would be an interesting point of departure.

I suspect the answer would be similar to many immigrant communities: most would live in urban locations, and would be decimated with almost 100% of other city dwellers. A few small cities could have significant numbers; these might be more likely to survive.

Would many immigrant or minority groups be admitted to the Vault-Tec program? Unlikely, but then there's all those experiments.

For Middle Eastern cultures in the Middle East, or anywhere else, the game's canon doesn't tell us much about what happened outside the US.

Not to rip off the backstory for the Shi, but I can imagine an oil tanker coming ashore somewhere with an Arab crew. It might even be transporting postwar Arab refugees. Someone could think a hold full of oil would be a good power base, if they found a safe place to land.

For no particular reason, I'm reminded of a film set in Iran called Iron Island. Not exactly a pop culture reference, thank goodness.
 
But Mormons in general just have a more survivalist mindset then any other American religion, probably dating back to their days on the frontier

Also from being persecuted and made to flee several times in their history. Mormonism began in Upstate New York (as did a lot of groups during the Second Great Awakening) and made its way to Independence Missouri before settling on the banks of the Great Salt Lake.
 
I think the devs of the originals didn't want to include religion because, IMO, it wouldn't do much. When the world has been fucked to hell, your average person wouldn't give a shit about how god doesn't want you to masterbate or hwo you will go to hell for sex without condoms. All too often, religions delve way too much into trivial shit.

The only religion in the originals was a tongue in cheek criticism of Scientology though the devs would never admit.

I also disagree that mormonism should have been mentioned in FNV since I couldn't get past the 'I am mormon and I am special', deal.

The shi,
 
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