R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Usually not which just makes them more cringe
Unpopular Opinion and Discussion thread
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That makes no sense, fascists are fascists, an in-group can’t be an out-group at the same time. Fascists don’t have a monopoly on political violence.
I don't see them as nationalists, because they preach diversity. But the funny thing is that diversity leads to conformity and conformity is a nationalist's wet dream. Think of Europe. It used to be a patchwork of countries with their own coin, ideology, economy, religious beliefs, norms and values ... Then came the monster called diversity and all these countries turned into the same thing: the same miserable mix of races/religions under the holy banner of the Emperialistic Euro. Clearly conformity. Which will only get worse, once islam becomes the dominant religion and muslim culture becomes the norm - a change which will happen faster than the original Europeans like to think, but which was always the goal of the European dream, I mean, nightmare: unity. Union. Unification. Diversity is nationalism on a grander scale and it clearly destroys what we once held dear: democracy and enlightment. Anti-fascism is fascism. Putin is right when he refers to Europe as a fascist regime.
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Damn straight. You cant be a pimp and a prostitute too. You cant be a perpetrator and victim at the same time. You cant be a fascist and an anti fascist at the same time. You cant be a communist and an anti communist at the same time. You cant be a slaver and a slave at the same time. I mean they gotta make it make sense.
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R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Nah you're beyond wrong. two things can be true at the same time. You're so unnuanced it's actually too far for even me lmao
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Moral, political, identity, and economic issues can be very nuanced. Two idealogical extremes that were made in opposition to each other? There's no nuances to that, that's just it. In the case of pimp and prostitute- purely transactional. Some day the prostitute might become a pimp when they get their freedom and seek to inflict their misery on others. But guarantee theyre not gonna be used anymore like a prostitute. Same with slave and slaver. Communist and anti communist? One will always go after the other naturally. One exists so the other can but you cant play both sides. If youre a victim, you dont continue the cycle. If youre perpetrator, consider stopping while youre ahead before it goes too far.
I think this is ironic because of how often people hate the overuse of Nazi, sexist, racist, fascist, etc. because there's a notion that it misuses the word and distorts its definition.
Fascist is not "thing I disagree with" or "thing that pushes its agenda(s) onto others." Fascism is an ultranationalist ideology. It's normally considered a far right and authoritarian ultranationalist ideology but I'd say of those three descriptors, the ultranationalist part is very important maybe the most important.
For example, communism at its core as an ideology could be described as the desire to abolish private property. If you want more private properties and private property rights and protections, it's hard to consider you a communist.
That is true but when it comes to boxing up ideologies you this does not work. Just because two things can be true at the same time does not mean it can always be applied as such. If your light switch is turned off then it certainly is not turned on right? And it can't really be true that it is on and off. So if one ideology is a direct opposition to another, it's hard to really be of the same ideology. You can have similar methodology to achieve goals but that does not inherently define the goals, just the practices.
Humans are nuanced and can be a mix of many ideologies and beliefs because we are not simple definitions, so yes sometimes many things can be simultaneously true.
Yes. That's exactly what I said, but I said so with a twist.
Comparing ideologies to light switches is a bit daft, innit?
Schrödinger's cat. Hey, if you compare politics with light switches, I should be allowed to bring some quantumphysics to the table as well, right? I kid. I kid. It's just that your analogy makes no sense at all.
The goals are basically always the same, no matter which spot the ideology occupies on the spectrum (growth, progress, a better future, ...). The way these goals can be achieved is only different on a semantic level: the message, the idea. The execution of that idea, however, is always limited to a number of practices: taxes, majority vote, censorship, fines, violence, intimidation, witch hunt, trials, laws, pressure, war, brainwashing and scaremongering via media and education, ... Both left and right, pro and anti are doomed to make the same dancesteps to get from A to B.
Humans nuanced? Their words perhaps. Their actions never. History shows that a mix of many ideologies and beliefs does not work. Never will.
Oh, and a victim can be a perpetrator. It is not uncommon for a sexually abused child to sexually abuse children once it reaches adulthood. Also: never heard of revenge? LOL. And most sexworkers in Belgium are their own pimp. It's their job.
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broneslav
Still Mildly Glowing
You are still so young, lol.
I will give you some examples:
A communist and an anti-communist at the same time:
Lenin, Stalin. Formally, the highest ranking communists. In fact, people who did everything to prevent communism from coming. For Lenin, the transfer of power from the communist party to the councils ("soviets" of workers and peasants) would mean a complete loss of power. Stalin turned the USSR into a totalitarian state with centralized management and absolute personal power, which completely contradicts Marx's original idea.
A criminal and a victim at the same time: Iran.
A slave owner and a slave: libertus in Rome. A freed slave who acquired slaves. The mentality of a slave will remain for life, but at the same time he himself owns slaves.
Nazi and anti-Nazi: Azov Battalion in Ukraine, who sincerely believe that they are fighting against Putin (the new Hitler). But at the same time, the Azovites are for the superiority of the white race.
In fact, any idea can be brought to the point of absurdity.
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Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
The first three times I read this, I took it to be intentional sarcasm; hyperbole to illustrate a point.
*But please do correct me if I am mistaken.
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R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
sure but the same switch will be on and it will be off. its still been both. thats where the whole cognitive dissonance of so many ideology's comes in to play.
Love the big "drunk uncle wants to talk about politics at the family gathering" energy in the last two pages of this thread.
broneslav
Still Mildly Glowing
Orwell tried to show that doublethink is an obvious continuation of dialectical logic, which cancels the logic of Aristotle. There is a statement A. If A is true, then its negation is automatically false. But if we say that A and not A actually form a dialectical pair in which the unity and struggle of contradictions occurs, then we can cancel all Aristotelian formalism. The dialectical pair must be resolved by removing the contradiction on a new turn of thought where holy synthesis eliminates the boundaries between truth and falsehood. All modern politics is built on this.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Word salad.
(...and all modern politics are the realm of the insane; —some for being unreachable (by reason), some for believing those people can be reached, and the rest just want to watch the world burn; "Who needs Oil, I ride the bus!".)
(...and all modern politics are the realm of the insane; —some for being unreachable (by reason), some for believing those people can be reached, and the rest just want to watch the world burn; "Who needs Oil, I ride the bus!".)
broneslav
Still Mildly Glowing
Ok. For you, a simplified form.
1. Thesis: truth.
2. Antithesis: lie.
3. Synthesis: lie for the good, relativity of truth.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
A decent simplification, but the meaning is the same.
broneslav
Still Mildly Glowing
Let's get back to the topic. Fascism is first and foremost a cult of the state. Complete superiority over the individual and the highest form of organization. The most anti-liberal force. Nationalism is not needed here at all. The state can unite completely different ethnic groups, cultures and religions under the dictate of an emperor or leader. Fascism was generally born under the impression of the Roman Empire, its greatness, discipline and order. Italian fascists wanted to return the glory of Rome.
Aren’t most people here uncles? Or at least old.