A blow dealt to the US(Obama's) health care idea.

[TheWesDude]

1)

describe how a pharmaceutical company would make a profit if every prescription was sold at the same price per dosage per duration interval given that research costs for medicines are unknown

2)

say you have a doctor who can provide a surgery perfectly every time, but only makes $1,000 per surgery at hospital A, but hospital B allows for variable pricing and thus due to his higher skill/ability could make more money at hospital B, how would hospital A keep the doctor from leaving hospital A to go to B so he could make more money

 

[Loxley]

I just hope the State starts to invest in research like the private companies, or we would be out of new medicines (altho most produced are shit just to make money, many breakthroughs, in diagnostic procedures also, come from the private sector).

How does that affect anything? The companies can still charge as much as they want to when selling the thing. Assuming they have the patent.

 

[Sicblades]

1)

describe how a pharmaceutical company would make a profit if every prescription was sold at the same price per dosage per duration interval given that research costs for medicines are unknown

Easy, you pay the same amount always, your subsidized health care package picks up the rest.

2)

say you have a doctor who can provide a surgery perfectly every time, but only makes $1,000 per surgery at hospital A, but hospital B allows for variable pricing and thus due to his higher skill/ability could make more money at hospital B, how would hospital A keep the doctor from leaving hospital A to go to B so he could make more money

Hospital A can't keep him if all he wants is more money. The good thing is though, that you wouldn't have to pay a cent for it, and the government automatically takes care of it.

In December I had a deviated septum fixed... my cost: $12. For picking up extra painkillers. This included CT scans, x-rays, surgery, doctor and specialist visits, post-op visits, meds, hospital stay, etc etc. I just had to show up to the hospital. No paper work, no wondering if I was covered; just show up and leave when ready.

I don't know how that peace of mind could cost too much to anyone.

 

[Zeal]

I just hope the State starts to invest in research like the private companies, or we would be out of new medicines (altho most produced are shit just to make money, many breakthroughs, in diagnostic procedures also, come from the private sector).

How does that affect anything? The companies can still charge as much as they want to when selling the thing. Assuming they have the patent.

reasearch is a very fragile investiment.

If private companies will have to mainly resort to research for profit (just the sale of patent), many researches will be left aside due to low profit probability.

We saw that with the introduction of "generic" prescriptions. Was good in some ways and bad in others.

There are always two sides in a coin.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

There are always two sides in a coin.

The denial of this basic, common sense assumption, and it's replacement by shrill, smug ideologues (just look at this thread) is the basis for pretty much all American political discourse.

I think some people don't realize that this and the Scott Brown election in Mass. aren't mandates against a Uni. HC plan for America. They are repudiations of the shady, closed-door, 11th hour way they tried to ramrod this bill through. Coming from a regime that promised a new kind of politics and transparency among other hollow election promises. The circumstances surround the bill are what people are rejecting in this case.

Meanwhile you have some established institutions/industries in America, like healthcare, where there is an awful lot of vested interest in maintaining the status quo. You give douches like this the power to lobby those clowns in Wash. and what you get is our current clusterfuck.

Anyway, I begrudgingly left the ranks of the uninsured a few months ago, broke my hand about a year ago, finally going to get it looked at today. Who gives a fuck huh? I'll let you know if I have to open a 2nd mortgage on my house to pay for it.

 

[Maphusio]

In December I had a deviated septum fixed... my cost: $12. For picking up extra painkillers. This included CT scans, x-rays, surgery, doctor and specialist visits, post-op visits, meds, hospital stay, etc etc. I just had to show up to the hospital. No paper work, no wondering if I was covered; just show up and leave when ready.

I don't know how that peace of mind could cost too much to anyone.

What utopian society do you live in sir?

Oh how amazing it would feel to be able to not have to wring my hands on how much the bill will be just to go to the Dr... Instead, I live with what ever god awful thing is wrong with me, at least until I find a Dr.'s office that will due a payment plan... but im all ready on medical payment plans for my surgery... too many bills.

 

[Tagaziel]

Anyway, I begrudgingly left the ranks of the uninsured a few months ago, broke my hand about a year ago, finally going to get it looked at today. Who gives a fuck huh? I'll let you know if I have to open a 2nd mortgage on my house to pay for it.

You waited a year to get a broken hand fixed?

I had a broken leg and it was fixed the next day, with the only cost being a minor payment for a lighter, less constricting cast (not plaster but GRP/thermoplastic, I'm not sure which).

 

[Sicblades]

What utopian society do you live in sir?

Oh how amazing it would feel to be able to not have to wring my hands on how much the bill will be just to go to the Dr... Instead, I live with what ever god awful thing is wrong with me, at least until I find a Dr.'s office that will due a payment plan... but im all ready on medical payment plans for my surgery... too many bills.

Canada.

I don't even want to know how much my surgery would have cost. Anyways, that's a horrible position to be in, and would just assume that you are one of the many that want a reform of some sort, even if it isn't Obama's exact bill.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

You waited a year to get a broken hand fixed?

No, I waited a year to seek treatment, (I waited about 5 minutes, which was cool because I haven't really read National Geographic in a long time). So I wouldn't pin that on a failure of the HC system here. More a combination of
1. I had no insurance at the time.
2. Broken hand sounds worse than it was, there's a fracture, some swelling and pain for one night. Not that bad.
3. I've broken bones before and all they did was give me a cheesey brace and some pain killers. Why do I need a doctor for that?
4. I played competitive contact sports all up through Uni, so I'm used to coping with pain and injuries.
5. This was a somewhat self-inflicted wound, so I'm not about to point fingers elsewhere.

Long story short the bone is compacted and calcified so there's probably nothing that can be done or could've been done FWIW. There probably never was any fixing to be done. At least when I was uninsured I could save the money I pay in premiums every month and self-medicate. So, unless a HC system will provide me with quality hallucinogens, I don't think I really care where it comes from or how much I pay.

As a guy that takes relatively good care of his body, I'm not keen on paying premiums every month to subsidize the fatties here. I don't wear glasses, smoke cigaretts, eat junk food, have allergies, take meds etc. etc. just the occaisonal broken bone or stitches. I'll never get back what I pay in premiums, so how was my plan of saving the money I would've spent on premiums, putting it in a high yield CD and collecting interest for if I did have a catastrophe any better than giving it to some HMO every week?

 

[aronsearle]

Few thoughts.

Europe is not a country, there are many countries in Europe, and each have their own systems. There are also countries outside of Europe that also have state healthcare. It's clear from earlier on in the thread that some people have no idea about any of these systems, and how they each perform.

Immigrants are only an issue because of the tax system. A land value tax, or a sales tax, are both systems in which the tax collected is proportionate to the number of people and cannot practically be avoided so easily.

Regardless of that, I kind of doubt that American hospitals currently turn immigrant patients away, so I don't see how this will be an issue, unless you adopt a UK style immigration policy (as in open the floodgates as they may vote labour)