A genuine, worthy sequel

[thefalloutfan]

Wrong. The design of Fallout 3 can be compared to the design of Van Buren, yielding a very clear result: Fallout 3 is a bad RPG. And it's a fact.

It's not a fact. That's just your opinion. Yes, we're all entitled to our opinion, but that doesn't mean you can say it's a fact. Well you may think so, but in the end, that's just your opinion, which I don't agree with. I believe it's a good sandbox RPG, imo.

 

[Roflcore]

RPG = Roleplaying Game. Number of roles you can play in Fallout 3: 1. Fallout 3 != rpg. Sorry but that is a fact. Half Life 2 is not a rpg, gta IV is not a rpg and f3 is not a rpg. has nothing to do with opinions, things are defined .

 

[thefalloutfan]

I can play various roles in the game, from a bastard murderer to a sneaky ninja (), to a scientist or a raider.

I've played as a bastard murder mostly for now, and how is that not a role? Having this build means I can't open any lock in the game, can't read any computer screens, and I don't have any extra dialogue.

There are roles you can play in the game, if you're not seeing them, well that's not the game's fault is it? I mean I can play different roles, so are my friends. Are you saying these thousands of people are wrong and they're not role playing? Come on. I know what I'm doing, and that's role playing.

Sure you may argue it's not the best, or not very good, but that's another matter.

 

[Patton89]

I can play various roles in the game, from a bastard murderer to a sneaky ninja (), to a scientist or a raider.

I've played as a bastard murder mostly for now, and how is that not a role? Having this build means I can't open any lock in the game, can't read any computer screens, and I don't have any extra dialogue.

There are roles you can play in the game, if you're not seeing them, well that's not the game's fault is it? I mean I can play different roles, so are my friends. Are you saying these thousands of people are wrong and they're not role playing? Come on. I know what I'm doing, and that's role playing.

Sure you may argue it's not the best, or not very good, but that's another matter.

Fallout 3 is an A-RPG. More based on the ACTION than RPG. Also later on you can become jack-of-all trades...at least when compared to originals.
Edit: yes, SPECIAl doesn't have as large impact as in originals.

 

[Public]

Well spot Roflcore!

In FO3 stats are something like bonus points to make your character more god-like, to be a better killer.

It's an FPS with RPG elements, or FP Action RPG (like Oblivion)

 

[Critter]

I can play various roles in the game, from a bastard murderer to a sneaky ninja (), to a scientist or a raider.

I've played as a bastard murder mostly for now, and how is that not a role? Having this build means I can't open any lock in the game, can't read any computer screens, and I don't have any extra dialogue.

There are roles you can play in the game, if you're not seeing them, well that's not the game's fault is it? I mean I can play different roles, so are my friends. Are you saying these thousands of people are wrong and they're not role playing? Come on. I know what I'm doing, and that's role playing.

Sure you may argue it's not the best, or not very good, but that's another matter.

But, do these various "roles" ultimately mean anything?

Is there a difference between 1 CH and 10 CH?

With the silly skill system, you basically have to choose to ignore Lockpicking to not raise it at all and then have to decide some other crap skill to raise instead.

Besides, there anything normally worth anything behind locked doors?

Playing a bastard murdered or a sneaky ninja... dude, you're playing make believe in a "sandbox" that's as interesting as an MMO you play by yourself.

What's the real motivation to playing a do-gooder, or a bastard murderer? Do things change? Do you block certain quests or events down the line? Does dialogue really change?

"Hey, you're a real jerk. Run this package to some place across the map for me."

"Hey, you seem like a decent guy. Run this package to some place across the map for me."

If you truly believe you're role playing, then bud, you need better standards. There are countless better cRPGs that beat the crap out of this title you could find. Hell, I'm not even saying it has to be Fallout 1 or 2.

 

[gregor_y]

Well spot Roflcore!

In FO3 stats are something like bonus points to make your character more god-like, to be a better killer.

It's an FPS with RPG elements, or FP Action RPG (like Oblivion)

Theres a mod F3C fixes that problem atacking a town even in power armor ended bad for me

 

[Roflcore]

Did I mention that I am a played a bastard murderer and a sneaky ninja in Half Life 2? Oh or maybe I just pretended I did. Can't really tell, been a while..

 

[Critter]

Did I mention that I am a played a bastard murderer and a sneaky ninja in Half Life 2? Oh or maybe I just pretended I did. Can't really tell, been a while..

Every new Zelda title I go in basically playing a sexually frustrated teen who's saving the Princess for a piece of ass. Who cares about saving the world?

That is most definitely role playing in it's most finest moments.

 

[thefalloutfan]

But, do these various "roles" ultimately mean anything?

Is there a difference between 1 CH and 10 CH?

With the silly skill system, you basically have to choose to ignore Lockpicking to not raise it at all and then have to decide some other crap skill to raise instead.

Besides, there anything normally worth anything behind locked doors?

Playing a bastard murdered or a sneaky ninja... dude, you're playing make believe in a "sandbox" that's as interesting as an MMO you play by yourself.

What's the real motivation to playing a do-gooder, or a bastard murderer? Do things change? Do you block certain quests or events down the line? Does dialogue really change?

"Hey, you're a real jerk. Run this package to some place across the map for me."

"Hey, you seem like a decent guy. Run this package to some place across the map for me."

If you truly believe you're role playing, then bud, you need better standards. There are countless better cRPGs that beat the crap out of this title you could find. Hell, I'm not even saying it has to be Fallout 1 or 2.

Playing a bastard murderer does have an impact on gameplay. Taking into consideration I'm not proficient in lockpicking, speech and science, I miss quite a bit from the game. My stronger aspects, which is combat, I then excel in this area.

Also, "playing make believe", as you put it, do you mean making stuff up from my imagination? Or creating some rules which I may find enjoyable? Well, if this is not your gameplay style, it may be boring to you, but rest assured countless people like playing this way. I do too. Just like I did in Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Morrowind, Daggerfall and countless other RPGs.

I don't need to set a 'higher standard', games are there for pure enjoyment, and I get this satisfaction from the way I play. I've been playing games since '92, I know perfectly how to play my games, what I like in my games, and how to play RPGs.

 

[Public]

Yeah, it does have an impact! You kill more or less!!

 

[thefalloutfan]

Yes it does. Some NPCs don't join you too if you're evil, and I'm not sure about this but I think some quests are closed off.

EDIT: Critter I'll reply later on today, I'm off for now.

 

[Critter]

Playing a bastard murderer does have an impact on gameplay. Taking into consideration I'm not proficient in lockpicking, speech and science, I miss quite a bit from the game. My stronger aspects, which is combat, I then excel in this area.

Speech serves no big purpose. I do have to draw a comparison to at least Fallout 1 on this. So, you have a decent Speech, so you can get a few hundred extra Caps through the entire game...

Lockpick and Science? Ok, so the game changes slightly if you don't take these. So, what, you have a few hundred less rounds of 5.56 ammo through the course of the game if you ignore these...

Again, not like it's hard to just max them out regardless of character "type". You have to willingly make an effort to dump a ton of other points into something you're blatantly not going to use in order to try and make it so your Lockpick/Science skill sucks.

Also, "playing make believe", as you put it, do you mean making stuff up from my imagination? Or creating some rules which I may find enjoyable? Well, if this is not your gameplay style, it may be boring to you, but rest assured countless people like playing this way. I do too. Just like I did in Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Morrowind, Daggerfall and countless other RPGs.

I bolded what I thought most interesting that actually applies to what I said earlier in this post. You, yourself, have to go out of your way to create a set of "rules" to attempt to create an attempt at your character fitting some "role".

This game really seems to be setup that you make a shooter guy, explore the map, beat the game and win. Except, there's nothing really special, or hidden, or anything that tailors to any special niche character. For me, I played through it once and realized, simply, I was done. I have no reason, at all, to pick up Fallout 3 again. Ever.

That makes me sad. Since you mention the first Fallouts, I'll go ahead and make a comparison then (since I really am not wanting to come off sounding like some rabid ass "fanboi") but there were certain consequences throughout the game depending on your choices at character creation. Show me where any of that exists in this title?

Yes it does. Some NPCs don't join you too if you're evil, and I'm not sure about this but I think some quests are closed off.

Only way it closes a quest off is if you kill the NPC. That's it. Hell, if you nuke Megaton, can't you still do the Survival Guide quest?

I did try and play through a second time as a good oriented character. My first was going to do that but I turned him to evil as an in-game vent of my frustrations... and, doing a bunch of quests and even doing the main quest to Rivet City... nothing had changed.

 

[Public]

Yes it does. Some NPCs don't join you too if you're evil, and I'm not sure about this but I think some quests are closed off.

EDIT: Critter I'll reply later on today, I'm off for now.

In Bioshock you can only be:

1. A big SOAB like Hittler

2. A Jesus Christ


Fallout 3 works the same way, and Bioshock is an FPS with RPG elements (a hybrid).

Deus Ex was a Hybrid too, but a better one.

 

[Critter]

Yes it does. Some NPCs don't join you too if you're evil, and I'm not sure about this but I think some quests are closed off.

EDIT: Critter I'll reply later on today, I'm off for now.

Ah, well, ok, yeah, I did forget about companions based on alignment. But, I went through it without a companion at all, there's no need in my opinion.

Hey, I'll be around and I'll keep an eye out on this thread

 

[Roflcore]

Yes it does. Some NPCs don't join you too if you're evil, and I'm not sure about this but I think some quests are closed off.

EDIT: Critter I'll reply later on today, I'm off for now.

Wrong. You can change your karma within seconds. Has no real impact on the game. Blow up a whole town? no problem, give 10 bottles of water and you are good again.

and no, making up rules is not a rpg like I said. Otherwise HL2 or gta IV would be rpgs. but they aren't.

 

[Tagaziel]

It's not a fact. That's just your opinion. Yes, we're all entitled to our opinion, but that doesn't mean you can say it's a fact. Well you may think so, but in the end, that's just your opinion, which I don't agree with. I believe it's a good sandbox RPG, imo.

It's a fact, because, objectively, Van Buren has a lot more choices & consequences as well as a more complex structure than Fallout 3.

 

[Sander]

Yes it does. Some NPCs don't join you too if you're evil, and I'm not sure about this but I think some quests are closed off.

EDIT: Critter I'll reply later on today, I'm off for now.

Companions are entirely meaningless and add really nothing to the game, other than easier combat.
So that's a pretty silly consequence.

Also, I can't recall any quests being closed off due to my alignment at all.

Playing a bastard murderer does have an impact on gameplay. Taking into consideration I'm not proficient in lockpicking, speech and science, I miss quite a bit from the game. My stronger aspects, which is combat, I then excel in this area.

Actually, you don't miss out on much at all. There are almost no situations in which lockpick, speech or science give you anything but additional loot or small shortcuts. There are no emotional payoffs anywhere (excepting, I think, Tenpenny Towers, which is one of the few good quests), only material ones that have basically no implications for the world itself.

As for the idea that you can just pretend to be something: the game doesn't respond to your choices, hence providing a rather unsatisfactory experience.

Also, I could play pretend in my own backyard, I don't need to shell out $50 for that.

 

[Public]

I think thefalloutfan guy is another one, who doesn't understand what's a fact and what is an opinion.

Fact- Black Sabbath was a heavy metal band.

Opinion- Black Sabbath was a first and true heavy metal band.

People on this forum are showing many points, for why FO3 is not an RPG game. They are also showing many points why this isn't a sequal to Fallout series, by showing what Fallout was really about (everything in Fallout, not just few parts)

People who are saying FO3 IS a true sequal to the series, they are usually making their own "What Fallout is" opinion

Every new Zelda title I go in basically playing a sexually frustrated teen who's saving the Princess for a piece of ass. Who cares about saving the world?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HtO15bxMW2I

 

[thefalloutfan]

It's not a fact. That's just your opinion. Yes, we're all entitled to our opinion, but that doesn't mean you can say it's a fact. Well you may think so, but in the end, that's just your opinion, which I don't agree with. I believe it's a good sandbox RPG, imo.

It's a fact, because, objectively, Van Buren has a lot more choices & consequences as well as a more complex structure than Fallout 3.

Do you mean the number of choices and consequences in the game? And give me an example the 'more complex structure' please, I haven't read any of Van Buuren's docs. I just watched the trailer and that's it.

Actually, you don't miss out on much at all. There are almost no situations in which lockpick, speech or science give you anything but additional loot or small shortcuts.

Having a good lockpick skill can open areas in the game where you can't venture unless you've got a lockpick skill, for example in Vault 106 (recent place I've explored).

Having a good science skill can yield you much extra information during the game. Mostly backstory and interesting stuff, such as getting to know that the Overseer in vault 106 knew about the release of the dangerous gas etc etc, and this could only be achieved with a science skill of 100.

Speech opens up quite a number of dialogue during the game, which can give better rewards, ending a quest differently, or getting more information out of someone. I've got no problem with speech other than the dialogue itself when you get a skill check, such as [intelligence], [strength], and [science] skill checks.

Also, I could play pretend in my own backyard, I don't need to shell out $50 for that.

Yeah sure, others are willing to shell out $50 for that. I play games for escapism for example, I guess you don't. So you're right, don't fork out $50 for that, I will though.

Wrong. You can change your karma within seconds. Has no real impact on the game. Blow up a whole town? no problem, give 10 bottles of water and you are good again.

Not true. First off, you've got to find these 10 bottles of water, and I admit this was implemented badly, since it should have been a one off thing, rather than having unlimited times to give the guy infront of rivet city water. But even if you did give him 10 bottles, if you're playing an evil character, so we'll take in consideration that you've got quite a big negative karma, then 10 bottles wouldn't cut it at all. More like 100 bottles. Though like I said the bottle system was designed incorrectly in my opinion.

I've done some things which yielded a positive karma for my evil character, never have I shifted alignment. If you blow up megaton, giving 10 bottles of water to someone won't cut it. Neither donating some money. You'd have to donate large sums of money, and the most money I had at one time is 3000caps, I think money is quite hard to come by in the game. Plus I've got to pay for repairs etc.

and no, making up rules is not a rpg like I said. Otherwise HL2 or gta IV would be rpgs. but they aren't.

True, but there lots of other things in fallout 3 which makes it an RPG. But I won't go into this, I thought everyone agreed that it's an RPG, whether it's a good RPG or a mediocre RPG that's another thing. If you really think that it's not an RPG whatsoever, well then, no point in arguing.

I bolded what I thought most interesting that actually applies to what I said earlier in this post. You, yourself, have to go out of your way to create a set of "rules" to attempt to create an attempt at your character fitting some "role".

Remember that this is a sandbox game, it's supposed to offer limitless freedom with no restrictions. There are no rules and you play the game as you see fit. Have you played Daggerfall or Morrowind? It's quite similar, there aren't really any ingame rules.

Of course if someone dislikes the sandbox environment then I can see why you wouldn't like fallout 3.

EDIT: That's not to say that there aren't any rules in Fallout3.

That makes me sad. Since you mention the first Fallouts, I'll go ahead and make a comparison then (since I really am not wanting to come off sounding like some rabid ass "fanboi") but there were certain consequences throughout the game depending on your choices at character creation. Show me where any of that exists in this title?

Do you mean consequences later on in the game due to the character you've created? I've found none as of yet (I'm still halfway through the game I think in terms of the main quest).

Only way it closes a quest off is if you kill the NPC. That's it. Hell, if you nuke Megaton, can't you still do the Survival Guide quest?

Yes you can.

I think thefalloutfan guy is another one, who doesn't understand what's a fact and what is an opinion.

Fact- Black Sabbath was a heavy metal band.

Opinion- Black Sabbath was a first and true heavy metal band.

People on this forum are showing many points, for why FO3 is not an RPG game. They are also showing many points why this isn't a sequal to Fallout series, by showing what Fallout was really about (everything in Fallout, not just few parts)

People who are saying FO3 IS a true sequal to the series, they are usually making their own "What Fallout is" opinion

I perfectly know the difference between an opinion and a fact, thank you very much.

Just as the many points I'm reading here why some people think it's not an RP game, I've read countless others why other people think FO3 is an RP game, using the same argument as yours, the "my opinion is right and yours is not".

If you believe FO3 is not an RPG, well then good for you mate. I certainly don't think so. It's a good sandbox RPG for me. You can argue this, but in the end none of our opinion will change, neither mine nor yours. And by saying FO3 isn't an RPG, so you're basically saying I should believe a couple of you on here, and tell the countless thousands of other gamers that FO3 is not an RPG, and they're wrong? Right.




Anyway this become unnecessarily long and took me quite a long time to type out, doesn't help that I'm not English either and have to resort to the dictionary My original point was that putting something forward as "fact" when it's all down to opinion is quite...arrogant? For lack of a better word, which I can't think of. Like everything I said about the game is my opinion, just my opinion and I don't put it forward as fact. Others may disagree with me and that's just fine.

I wasn't looking for this argument to be honest, if someone doesn't see FO3 as an RPG and a fallout sequel that's fine by me, it's just a game, it isn't something which will affect once I log off from here.