A genuine, worthy sequel

[coyo7e]

The OP is just stating his opinion.

And his opinion is uneducated and wrong.
Just like "I think Earth's square" opinion.

Funny, the peolpe who thought the Earth was square, were the ones who sat around agreeing with each other and praising each others' tortuous leaps of faith and logic.

The people who came up with the revolutionary world is round idea were in fact persecuted and killed for their heresy.

It seems pretty hard to miss to me, at least.

 

[Sander]

Funny, the peolpe who thought the Earth was square, were the ones who sat around agreeing with each other and praising each others' tortuous leaps of faith and logic.

The people who came up with the revolutionary world is round idea were in fact persecuted and killed for their heresy.

It seems pretty hard to miss to me, at least.

Actually, this is a myth. People generally weren't persecuted for the idea that the earth was a globe, and in fact that idea was widely held as a fact since ancient times and throughout the middle ages as well. The myth that people all thought the earth was flat was actually an ad hoc creation somewhere around the 18th century.

But aside from that, the OP is not some beacon of enlightened truth you are trying to make him. The fact is, we can objectively (as stated by the original developers) the core design points of the original games. We can also objectively determine that Bethesda did not stick to those design tenets.

The OP mostly works by creating a false dichotomy saying 'Fallout is either the setting or the system to you.' Which is completely false. Why can't it be the combination of both? Which is what it is: Fallout is a combination of several different elements.
Bethesda selectively (and poorly, considering the number of poorly fitting and contradictory elements they added) chose just the setting element from Fallout and decided that that's the whole of Fallout, while ignoring all the other elements that made that game so great.

 

[upperthorax]

The OP is just stating his opinion.

And his opinion is uneducated and wrong.
Just like "I think Earth's square" opinion.

Haha, what! OP's opinion is wrong? Riiiiiiight. I don't think you understand what the word opinion means. And good job confusing assumption (earth is square) with an opinion (OP).

 

[Tagaziel]

The OP is just stating his opinion.

And his opinion is uneducated and wrong.
Just like "I think Earth's square" opinion.

Haha, what! OP's opinion is wrong? Riiiiiiight. I don't think you understand what the word opinion means. And good job confusing assumption (earth is square) with an opinion (OP).

Good job at missing his point.

Uneducated, uninformed opinions are wrong, is it that hard to grasp?

 

[coyo7e]

But aside from that, the OP is not some beacon of enlightened truth you are trying to make him.

I'm not making anyone into a "beacon of enlightened truth," I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. What I was doing was following the course of someone's analogy to point out how rude and (absurd) it is to compare anybody to those who attempted to halt the course of science and history, while making a lighthearted jibe at the fact that by accusing someone who likes the new Coke flavor of being uneducated, incorrect, and against progress or fact, one kind of puts themselves into a corner of being the censor and not the revolutionary.

Progress is made by those who are willing to accept or bring about change, not those who hold the past against those who are not responsible.

Maybe you can reflect on this while you're carrying those pitchforks and torches to Interplay, that you referenced earlier. I'm sure that whomever works there now will be neither confused or put out to pay reparations.

 

[Tagaziel]

People who gobble up every overhyped excretion of the industry are responsible for its sorry state. Supply and demand ring any bells?

 

[Sander]

I'm not making anyone into a "beacon of enlightened truth," I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. What I was doing was following the course of someone's analogy to point out how rude and (absurd) it is to compare anybody to those who attempted to halt the course of science and history, while making a lighthearted jibe at the fact that by accusing someone who likes the new Coke flavor of being uneducated, incorrect, and against progress or fact, one kind of puts themselves into a corner of being the censor and not the revolutionary.

I'm sorry, you were the one who was carrying the analogy to the point of putting people who applaud the changes in the same spot as people who were persecuted for their beliefs (which, again, didn't actually happen).
All Black did was compare the OPs opinion to a demonstrably incorrect fact, without trying to tie it in with persecution or any of the connotations *you* added.

So I'd thank you if you'd stick to your own words instead of pretending you never said them.

Progress is made by those who are willing to accept or bring about change, not those who hold the past against those who are not responsible.

Change is not the same thing as progress, change is just that: change.
To think of Fallout 3 as progress over Fallout means that you did not get the core design of Fallout. Because, as I mentioned (and you conveniently completely ignored), we can demonstrate objectively (by quoting the original developers) what the original vision of Fallout was, and we can hence easily demonstrate that Fallout 3 does not follow this vision in many ways.

So again: Fallout 3 is certainly change, but from the point of view of Fallout there's no reason to assume it is progress.
And the idea that I can't hold them responsible is a useless idea: where am I advocating some theory that Bethesda is the devil and should be persecuted? All I am saying, is that Fallout 3 is not a good Fallout game. It makes me wonder why Bethesda decided to spend $1 million on purchasing the rights to Fallout 3 (and then more on purchasing the franchise), and it makes me dislike Fallout 3. That's about it.

Maybe you can reflect on this while you're carrying those pitchforks and torches to Interplay, that you referenced earlier. I'm sure that whomever works there now will be neither confused or put out to pay reparations.

I mentioned pitchforks and torches?

 

[coyo7e]

Whoops, the torches comment was Grizzly. His post was so long I lost track of who'd written it.

 

[Gandar]

I think the TRUE test of Fallout 3 will be if anyone pays for the DLC.

Its one thing to push a fuckton of copies that use an existing IP with a decent fanbase. Its another thing to actually KEEP them interested in your product and to get them to pay for additional content.

I predict DLC sales to be 1/4 of the sales of the game itself.

Unless they patch in a whole new map, I know I won't get it.

 

[Deadman87]

I predict DLC sales to be 1/4 of the sales of the game itself.

I would say that is beeing a bit optimistic.

 

[Eyenixon]

I assume you're doing this so you can go inform people on other forums, "Those assholes at NMA banned me."

EDIT: Two times in a row, come on, seriously.

 

[Corvin]

I think there's a line between 'this game is pure Bethesdan perfection' and 'worst game ever.' Some folks forget there are two sides to it.

 

[strifetoe]

In my humble opinion this is by far the best game released in many, many years. It has recaptured my love for gaming in a time where I thought that I was growing to old for it.

I personally think that people's abusive attitudes towards the game, whether its true to fallout canon, fun, etc. is extremely shameful. Specifically a certain admin who is especially rude and imo heinous in his "views" that caused me to register and post this. Here's hoping you allow me to submit my opinion though I don't agree with your tactics of voicing yours, at all.

Though I do support everyone's right to a different opinion and won't be here to claim to possess the proper thinking it takes to understand why FO3 is or isn't a great game.

Fact is, there's gonna be a FO3 expansion and many others like myself are going to explode with joy when it comes out.

And no amount of blind hate, bandwagon cruelty, or gripping arrogance can change that.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

^ Well, all I can say is that I'm glad you're enjoying the game like I can't, and I'm sad because you seem to have been missing out on a lot of great (though not necessarily rpg) games released in the last 3 years if you can't find a game at least comparable in quality to FO3.

 

[Sander]

In my humble opinion this is by far the best game released in many, many years. It has recaptured my love for gaming in a time where I thought that I was growing to old for it.

I personally think that people's abusive attitudes towards the game, whether its true to fallout canon, fun, etc. is extremely shameful. Specifically a certain admin who is especially rude and imo heinous in his "views" that caused me to register and post this. Here's hoping you allow me to submit my opinion though I don't agree with your tactics of voicing yours, at all.

Though I do support everyone's right to a different opinion and won't be here to claim to possess the proper thinking it takes to understand why FO3 is or isn't a great game.

Fact is, there's gonna be a FO3 expansion and many others like myself are going to explode with joy when it comes out.

And no amount of blind hate, bandwagon cruelty, or gripping arrogance can change that.

Is anyone telling you not to enjoy it? They aren't, and they shouldn't.

Also, whining about people's form of delivery to get the moral 'high ground' is pretty silly.

In any case, if you want to enjoy the game, good for you. But I don't like it, and many others don't either. Because it doesn't live up to Fallout, it doesn't even attempt to come close to its core design.

This is an entirely seperate issue from whether or not it is a good game.

Also, incidentally, I think it's shameful how people are trying to talk up Fallout 3 and in the mean while simply ignoring all the problems with it, many of which are the same problems that plagued Oblivion and were similarly ignored then (and only mentioned when Fallout 3 was announced, with the message 'I'm sure they fixed it'.)

 

[Entzmeat]

It's a pity we have to bury the Fallout series as we deal with crappy spin-offs. Oh, and as people here speak about "bandwagon cruelty, blind hate and gripping arrogance" supposedly present at NMA, I would like to politely point them towards the Bethesda forums and others like it. Presenting anything contrary to what Bethesdans would like to hear at those forums, too, would get you a shitstorm. At least NMA has it's facts straight regarding the Fallout universe and is willing to debate points based from experience, and a love for the orignals.

I couldn't wait to try Fallout 3, and when I had, it was fallout-ish for about a whole hour as I strove to explore and interact with NPCs as much as possible. Sadly, I then realized Bethesda had implemented no depth to NPCs, second-hand quests, and a tiny friggin' "world map". I wasn't impressed. Fallout 3 is an RPG, IMO, of quality on par with Oblivion-- not the originals! It feels, to me, as if NPC interaction, the histories to the various locales, and the dialogue itself, were fleshed out only as an afterthought and within the final days of design. I felt the designers had no love of the Fallout lore and simply did a cursory skim-through of the fallout vault. Oh, but they did manage to add whatever crap came to mind even if out of context, so I've noticed (and so have others here it seems).

Regarding NPC interaction: I mean, for fuck's sake, when I make an attractive, "bad-ass" female character, I want assholes in bars to harass and hit on me! Immezhun, people.

BTW, I've been a lurker at NMA for some time now and had finally decided to voice my opinion.

 

[Corvin]

The truth, as previously stated, lies somewhere in between the two bandwagons.

 

[k9wazere]

And no amount of blind hate, bandwagon cruelty, or gripping arrogance can change that.

I hope you aren't implying that everyone who dislikes FO3 is either a "blind hater" or "arrogant".

Because there's plenty of us who can, and will, explain exactly why we think FO3 is one of the most overrated games around.

Anyway, you can take comfort in the fact that FO3 is bound to win numerous GOTY awards, and it's Metacritic score is likely to be close to 10/10.

 

[Tymon]

"However, in terms of tone, design, and general gameplay it is a Fallout game through and through."

You take a top down turn based RPG series, and turn it into a first person shooter and you say it has the same tone design and general game play? No offense, but that's like saying a truck is the equivalent of a car because they are both vehicles. And as many other people have pointed out, the NPCs are really REALLY bland and not very well thought out. The game overall was really poor compared to a lot of Bethesda's past works, I'm disappointed in them.

 

[Foobar]

"However, in terms of tone, design, and general gameplay it is a Fallout game through and through."

You take a top down turn based RPG series, and turn it into a first person shooter and you say it has the same tone design and general game play? No offense, but that's like saying a truck is the equivalent of a car because they are both vehicles. And as many other people have pointed out, the NPCs are really REALLY bland and not very well thought out. The game overall was really poor compared to a lot of Bethesda's past works, I'm disappointed in them.

Really? I hate bethesda's games. They have all been boring, soulless, screen-savers. No plot, no characters, and an unoriginal derivative setting.

Fallout 3 is so much better than their other games.

Most of TES is essentially as dull as EverQuest without the social aspect.